I know there are threads on this topic, but I wanted to get some opinions for my specific situation.

First of all I was expecting the Z in sep, but I still don't have a VIN.

So I was going over all the numbers in my head again and here's what I get.

350Z track everything except nav ($35K)

M3 no options except xenon ($48K or $49K w/leather)

so we're talking $14K give or take (note: I used to think it was more like $20K difference).

Now I've heard people say they love the Z but if they could afford the M3 they'd go for it no questions asked. But there are a few people that will be trading in their M for a Z.

Any way I need a little open minded discussion.

M3 wins: better performance, more exclusive, better interior, better visibility out the rear, more room (4 seats), trunk (better than hatch).

350Z wins: Better looking, cheaper, more modability, newness factor, better shifter (from what I've heard), engine less prone to explode, less time in for service (I think).

BTW I have been looking at a few M3 boards and this one has them beat by a mile (good job Jay).

What do you guys suggest?

 

I had actually tossed this same idea around in my head yesterday!! The thing for is of course, the cost. The other thing is the issue you also brought up, MODABILITY.

I am very fortunate and have some nice friends, so whatever car i have next is going to have a turbo slapped on it. At 10.3:1 the Z compression is high but a turbo is DO-ABLE. later on down the road, puttting some low compression pistions (along with some other work) we be less expensive on the Z

Forgive me if I am wrong but isnt the compression on the M3 like 11.3 or 11.5 to 1. That is not turbo friendly at all.

So I am going to stick to my guns (GOD THAT SOUNDS CHEESY) and get the Z....

 

You can't say anything about the m3, it's a fantastic car. It will surely kill the Z in the performance category since it's easily capable of sub 5sec 0-60 times. German engineering at its best next to a Porsche 911 and M5. I don't know if I would buy one even if I had enough money since I'm a Z guy and have always wanted a Z, but whoever gets one over the Z won't be disappointed. The only downside to owning an m3 is the maintenance, it costs a lot to keep it in tip-top shape (as with any German car).

 

don't forget that the Z will only have to be serviced less frequently, but repairs done in service will be cheaper if anything goes bad.

 

Can you actually get one for less than 50K!

When I looked at them last Dec (before I orderd the Z), there was a 6-9 month wait, and a $10K markup. Total out the door was over $60K. Now this is So Cal, it may be different on the right coast, but be sure you are looking at real numbers when you compare costs.

The performance will be better, but by how much? Will it be $15K+ better? The Z is pretty close to the M3 stock. Look at how much improvement Sport Compact got from new tires and springs/shocks (from .89 stock to .98 on the skippad) This was probably less that $3K in cost and would probably surpass the M3 in handeling. Acceleration, that has yet to be seen, but the wave of performance mods for the Z will be hugh because of the numbers that will be produced. But

Lots to think about....

 

If you're getting an E46, then I'd opt for the SMG-II. Apparently, 6-speed owners have had great difficulty in getting some warranty work done: http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm

Until BMW NA acknowledges that there are some "issues" and agressively fixes it, I would not get a 6-speed no matter what other people say. It's like playing roulette and that engine failure list ain't getting any shorter.

Otherwise, I'd find a nice, ultra-low mileage E36.

Michael.

 

get the m3!!!! If you can afford it, there should be no questions being asked. The m3 is much more of a car. If you drive both you will surely feel the incredible difference between them. It's true what they say about driving anything you're thinking about pucrchasing before the bmw, because once you drive the bimmer... you'll never go back. There's just this solid/sturdy feeling the m3 has that the 350z doesn't. Which is understandable for an extra 15k... the 350z is a great value... but you get what you pay for and if you shell out the extra money for the //M3 you'll be happy you did. About the 6 speed manuals... that problems was fixed in the first batch of cars.. the SMG actually (being so new as it is) seems to have more problems... but I think a lot of those have been cleared up.

 

Well . . . here are some things to consider:

1. How long do you want to keep the car? If you're thinking long-term 4-5+ years, then I would go with Z. As several others have pointed out, maintenance costs will be significantly higher on the m3 (esp. after the warranty runs out).

2. Will you really be able to explore the edge in performance the m3 has over the Z? If you're like most people, you like to let your car out when you can and it is safe to do so, but generally you are restricted by other traffic (that has gotten infinitely SLOWER in the last 8-10 years due to all those SUV's and minivans out there!)

3. Add 1k+ to the price difference due to taxes. Insurance is likely much higher on the M. Also, make sure that you can find a dealer in your area who will order for you at MSRP.

4. Is the car going to be a daily driver or weekend car? If you buy the Z, you can easily afford it and another car for the price of the m3. If you buy the M3, it sounds like you may make that your only car. I'm sure there are a number of places in Maryland you wouldnt want to take your m3.

Bottomline: Although I think there is no question the M3 is a superior car, I wouldn't recommend "buying up" to it. It seems like you can afford the Z easily and with that comes some piece of mind as well as a little extra cash to invest. Give the Z a shot--if you don't like it w/n 6 months or so, it seems that supply will still be constrained enough that you can get near what you paid for the car.

 

First question: are you planning to do any track events? If the answer is yes, then the 350Z wins by a mile due to:
- much better brakes (Track ed.)
- 2-300 lbs. less weight
- maybe more neutral handing (both understeer, but it's really bad on the E46 M3)
- probably greater durability
- lower maintenance costs

Take out track and cost considerations, and it's a much more difficult decision. I REALLY wanted an M3 for my next car, but I've heard enough bad things to make me nervous about going that route. I'd prob. pick the Z, since I suspect I'm not allowed to mention the S2000 as a viable option. j/k

 

I had an '02 M3 and now have had my Z for about 2weeks.. For the money the Z is a great buy and to be honest for $48k the M3 is a great buy as well, it just really depends what you want.. If you need the extra space(back seats) or even think ya might need them go with the M3 you will NOT be disappointed, if you haven't heard yet, the service plan has been increased to 4yrs on the '03 M3's.. that means no oil changes, light bulb changes etc. for the 1st 4yrs not sure if you will keep it longer then that. So i wouldn't worry too much about service and maintenance.
Performance and handling, no doubt the M3 surpasses but not by much. The Z feels more toss able of course in turns (lighter weight, shorter wheel base) but the M3 feels more composed in the turns especially when encountering bumps, it just soaks them up, no kickback felt through the steering wheel. The Z has the same taut solid billet feel as the M3 that I thought I would never experience in another car. After looking at the Z the M3 looks boring, I get alot more looks in the Z its a bit more exotic but I wonder if it stays that way once there's a steady supply of Z's wich worries me. The M3 is still quite limited going into its 3rd year of production.. ..The Z has just as much torque(maybe even more) so it defiantly feels just as fast around town, but after 6300rpms M3 says goodbye. Aftermarket goodies for the M3 is nearly nil and dam expensive, and the Z will have a good supply. I find the Z more amusing to drive though and easily drivable to its limits.. It comes down too, do you need the extra $14k, backseats and do you want to mod your car. You will not be dissapointed with the Z, I am defiantly not, but I wasn't dissappointed with the M3 either reason I sold it.. because i was offered quite a bit over what i paid for it *chuckles*. Would i sell my Z slightly less then what i paid for it to get an M3, hell no I'm having too much fun in it. But would I sell my Z for what i paid for it, and have the choice of getting an M3 within a month ... DAm that would be tough choice.

 

Thanks for all the good advice, not one "You're a moron dude" in the bunch.

I know a lot of you are going: "I wish I had your problems"

I really am torn between the two. It may turn out that I will only keep the car for 3-4 years or I may end up keeping it for 10. I just want to make the right decision and not end up kicking myself six months down the road. I guess that both of these cars are exceptional.

Please if anyone else has owned the M3 give me your advice.

Thanks.

 

I own a 01' E46 and get a lil' tired of people saying all the engines blow up. It was three months of production which had a faulty part, outside of that time period the engines are rock solid. If you have an engine from that timeperiod BMW has been pretty good about getting it fixed.

Secondly, I dont think the Z looks better. It looks cool now because it is new and a novelty. Wait and see when there are 40,000 of them a year hitting the roads compared to the 5-6,000 M3's every year.

Third, maintenence? BMW maint is more expensive if and only if you make it a habit to beat your cars. I have never had a problem with repairs on any of my cars because they are all well maintained and not abused.

Fourth, modability. Who cares? You reaaaallly need to mod a car that runs 0-60 in 4.7? Why? So you can spend thousands of dollars for a tenth a second? Its moot at that level. I understand modding cars that take 6-7's to run 0-60, but sub-5?

Fit and finish. Hands down BMW wins this one. I have never been so appauled as when I saw the number of people complaining about orange peel and weak paint. If a dealer gave me car that had problems to that extreme with the paint I would refuse delivery or call an attorney based on the Lemon Laws.

The one thing you guys all overlooked is this. Most M3's start at 48k, however options (ones you will want) will ring that up quickly. Xenons are 700, the REAL leather is 1500, SMG is 2200, then you have the hidden taxes like luxury tax, gas guzzler etc... and sure enough you are garunteed to be looking at mid 50's. However, the flipside to that is that an M3 will retain its resale value much much much more than a 350z for alot of reasons. THe primary being build quality, followed by quantity available, and initial cost and performance.

 

I say drive the two if at all possible and then decide.

Some points. G35 sedans after being on sale for only 6 months are literally a dime a dozen in Toronto. You see yourself coming and going. I can't help but think the same thing will happen to the 350Z. This is good for Nissan's financial strength, but somewhat disappointing for owners.

If you want moddability, get the 350Z. The aftermarket is going to be simply insane for these cars.

If you want exclusivity and a highly optimized car from the factory, and don't plan on modifying the engine much, then the M3 is your car.

On the other hand, that extra $14k invested in the 350Z will make it pretty spectacular, especially if you go the turbo route.

 

I believe the luxury tax is going away in 2003, I was not aware the M3 had a gas guzziler tax though. I am not sure I want to go the SMG route. The only options I want is xenon and maybe leather. I will look into this but I was thinking I could get it out the door for under $50K before tax.

I am so confused now

 

...well in Miami, beemers are a dime a dozen. 323, 325, 330, M3 all look the same. Only enthusiasts can really tell the difference.

the Z is much better looking that the 3 series right now, including the M3. So, if you want looks, go with the Z.

 

You wont get it out the door for under 50 I bet. I work in the insurance industry and that lets me get spectacular deals on new cars and when I got mine even with special deals I could only get 1k under MSRP (at a time when markups were everywhere). So, if you want leather and xenons you will likely end up just getting the luxury package and xenons which is +4k all told, then add the gas and luxury tax (still there, not going away) then deal with your sales tax in whatever state you are at and you will land between 54k (Delaware-2% tax and 58k-Cali 7%).

Just the way it be

 

Rai,

Just going to Edmunds.com and doing some pricing you will see the M3 is going to be over 50 when you add the options in to give it the equipment the 350Z comes with standard (some models). Don't get me wrong, I have always loved the M3, think it's a great car, but I wouldn't spend the 50+ on it for 46 more hp and less torque than the Z.

I will say this, I don't envy your position on making this decision.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Just me .02.

 

I'm not saying all E46 motors are bound for a short life and after re-reading my note, I can see where I implied that and I apologize -- that was not my intention.

However, I still stand by what I say. Until BMW officially acknowledges and aggressively addresses the "problem," I wouldn't recommend getting a 6-speed unless you've got a spare $15k (just in case).

After going through the engine failure registry, I've come to 3 conclusions:

1- some of the incidents start out with something like: "I thought this day would never come..."

2- BMW NA is saying that some owners are overreving; the owners swear that they've followed the break-in schedule and rarely hit redline

3- no one has narrowed down the pattern (production run) of M3's that are prone to engine failure yet -- IMO, that's part of the reason why that registry exists; if the pattern was nailed down, then I would assume the registry would be updated and there would be some official public acknowledgement from BMW NA

I don't know rai's financial situation (nor am I interested in it). But if a person can afford an E46 w/o having a cash reserve, their E46 has an engine failure, and BMW NA refuses to warranty it, then I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that I suggested (and/or encouraged) the purchase w/o giving forewarning. And I'm sure you would feel the same way.

If I'm 100% incorrect, then I'll apologize and crawl back into my cave.

Michael.

 

A lot of people have stated the Z will take to mods well, when really, nobody knows.

I am sure the aftermarket will make many products for the Z and VQ engines, but we won't know for a couple of years whether it destroys the cars.

Look at the S2k guys, they have lots of mods, but factory components (rear end) begin to fail when extra power is added.

Anybody seen a carbon fiber driveshaft shatter? It ain't pretty. We don't know the durability of the driveshaft or rear end or transmission at this point, so saying the Z will be easily modded is really speculation.

Just about every sports car has a weak point. It could be clutch, tranny, rear end, engine heat management, etc. We don't know what the weak points are on the Z, or how much it will cost to beef them up yet.

I just hope somebody else finds out before I do!