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Why do people dog down on any 350Z with the DE engine?
I've been in the 350Z community for almost a year and previously I was affiliated with the LT1 Z28 guys. When I was with the LT1 guys there was a lot of groups and guys at car meets with Z28s with different setups and opinions on what you can do with the engine, there were also the jack offs with the Camaro SS with their LS1 talking endless garbage about the LT1 series and how they make low power and how their LS1 will gap them any day of the week. Thats what I ran into QUICK when I bought a 2004.5 350Z. I wanted a JDM car that had power and can do well around turns and the reviews for it were very good, there very good video reviews and videos of guys taking them to a circuit track with other cars and people love their 03 or 04 350Z that also has a lot of aftermarket support so it's like "Hey... not a bad idea". I found a resprayed 2004.5 with a 6MT with 127k miles that was in pretty good condition for 5700 chicken wings. Pretty soon I found a lot of videos of people highway racing and a lot of DE engines lose with not any wins and that's when I found the bombardment of HR guys. It always seems when there's a video of a 350Z losing the quickest response was "would have gotten gapped by an HR" and there is really no end on how much they hate the low power, weak internals, slow DE engine. To me it seems like the toxic group here is the HE guys because no matter what they always go on about how much power they get from bolt on or if they boosted their car like how the DE guy did, he would make more power anyways. The LS1 guys would at times seem annoying but these HR guys are just toxic as hell on how they would trash on another guys car like they do. Is this like a JDM thing or what because that's kinda depressing. I never really see guys with a 370Z trashing the DE, even the guy I work with has a 370 and he loves my car and says that it's the cleanest 350 he's ever seen and he's not the first to say that. I want to eventually build a forged 11:1 compression C8 cam engine so one day I can Vortec supercharge it. Can't wait for the day I can have a wicked fast 350Z that can be unique and **** off the haters after I say that it's stock. One day it will happen, hopefully it doesn't take too long.
ignore them, i had an HR because i wanted the newest model out when i bought mine. i learned pretty quick that there is more aftermarket support for the de, although everything i did to the car i did it because i wanted to... if someone didnt like it, no skin off my back because its my car. i did jump ship from the Z because it wasnt going to get any faster without dumping 15k into for turbos, instead i sold it and got into corvettes.
to this day, when i see a nice nissan they still get my attention
Some people drink the HR kool-aid I ignore them or put them in their place. Depends on my mood, people seem to think the HR has 60 hp more, this is a lie and at the end of the day the cars aren't that apart in performance numbers so it shows.
The reality is the HR is better at 2 things NA or stock block boosted power potential, but if you desire more power than that I prefer the DE.
At that point both engines need to be built anyway and the DE has more torque.
highway racing is lame and at the end of the day these "draggy queens" as I call them are nothing but tire spinners until they hit 60mph so that's all they can do is brag about "gapping" other cars. Those fools can come back to me when they build a Z that can actually take advantage of every bit of power it has an doesn't look like trash which is my goal.
Zs aren't drag cars they are touring cars with good handling and are meant for the twisty bits not straight lines, cause the world is not a flat, straight, dragstrip.
Same with the 7mgte vs 2jz, people are more about clout and Instagram than reality. Once there's a concensus, THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.
I'd try to look at the brighter side, when you build your motor and supercharge it, motor selection doesn't matter as much. You can do the "Well I just have a DE" after walking people and be the guy who made a monster out of a "inferior design"... unless you're chasing that instatoc thumbs up notoriety from people too.
Hoooboy, here we go.... got me started and I never know when to STFU about this bit of arrogance.
It's "peer pressure". Sure, it's always been around from Model Ts to hot rods to truck to motorcycles to sports cars. Everyone wants to have bragging rights. But as Dark put it, the HR KoolAid is imminently stronger now with social media being the end all source of "good information."
Psh.
Here's the thing, the HR is ARGUABLY a better motor. And it damn well better be, it's newer and has the benefit of later, mo'modern technology. But then, what do the "HR-is-king" people have to say when I pull up next to them in my VHR Z34 Nismo (no longer own) with an even higher level of tune and go-fast? Yes, there's 44 more ponies and 63 more than the HR and DE respectively. So what? It's called evolution. Anyone who thinks they're better than me because s/he has an HR and I "only own a DE" (now) is just delusional and self righteous.
Why? Because its just the buzz on social media and carried over to "meets" and such. Good gawd, if I had a dollar for every time I saw that "HR is better" crap, I could retire 100% instead of the 75% as now.
So, as mentioned above, just ignore the flung shid. Enjoy your car for what it is, modify to suit you and if it's still not enough, then do what Trav did and buy a different car.
For the record, I've owned all three versions. Yep, the HR in my 33N has an entirely different set of characteristics than the DE. And my 34N had still another set of different characteristics, each one with a "it damn well better" improvement through that evolution.
So what.
Hell, look at the generational changes from the S30 to the Z34. Is one better than the other. In some aspects, yes. In things like "car that touches your soul", not a chance. Try telling a 240Z owner his/her car is slow. And I'd say, "Yup. Good for you. Now go put the trash out."
An aside: None of those engines can hold a candle to my other car that puts out over 430 wheel. Still love my Z for all the things it does better. For me.
[Mic steps off soapbox]
EDIT (just saw this):
Originally Posted by PeterPotatoes
... unless you're chasing that instatoc thumbs up notoriety from people too.
An HR will not gap a DE. Who cares what other people think about your car anyways? I stomped out cocky Mustang GT owners with my DE and they prob still talked trash after but who cares? You got the car you liked. Tell all the haters to **** off and worry about their own ride.
Not to be a dick, but you sound like a young guy that hangs out with other young guys. First... JDM is Japanese Domestic Market. It means a car that was made and sold in Japan. Your 350Z isn't from Japan and isn't JDM. Second, I've never heard anyone over 30 bash a DE 350Z for not having an HR motor. You need to hang out with more mature car guys. Third, 350Z's are NOT highway roll cars. They were designed and built for going around corners. If you want a highway roll car, go back to F-Bodies. I speak from experience. I've owned half a dozen F-bodies and was one of the founding members of the Las Vegas F-Body Association. Fourth, if you want to go forced induction, don't build an 11:1 engine. Yes, it'll handle boost, but not as much as a 9:1 engine.
In general you can call a car made in Japan JDM, or have a JDM inspired setup on the Japanese car, I'm not gonna call you stupid for calling it JDM.
I said that and say that daily but stupid people don't get that and want to make a 600-800hp Z cause they think it's fun".
Lastly 11:1 is fine for a supercharger, ask Tim.....unless you want a draggy queen but you ain't getting that with a supercharger (maybe on a supercharged HR on E85) but not a DE.
In general you can call a car made in Japan JDM, or have a JDM inspired setup on the Japanese car, I'm not gonna call you stupid for calling it JDM.
I said that and say that daily but stupid people don't get that and want to make a 600-800hp Z cause they think it's fun".
Lastly 11:1 is fine for a supercharger, ask Tim.....unless you want a draggy queen but you ain't getting that with a supercharger (maybe on a supercharged HR on E85) but not a DE.
I'm confused, what's the difference between a 11:1 HR vs DE? They both have upgraded internals. We will assume their both built the same way in your senerio. I
Wait a min... is this what the op is referring to...
Just so we're all aware, I own a 2008 Z
The JDM thing reminds me of the older Honda hatches. My first car was a 95 civic hatch si, people call it a eg hatch but the eg chassis code was only used for del sol's and four door (maybe it was two) Hondas in America. Only the hatches in Japan were a EG chassis. I pointed it out, no one cared, they still call the eg hatches.
Last edited by PeterPotatoes; 04-03-2022 at 04:17 PM.
As stated an 11:1 engine is bad for boost, any engine builder will advise you to build a low compression for boost, high compression is an n/a engine, not boosted. Further, don’t be one of those guys that does a bunch of mods, then lies and claims his car is stock, if you do, you’re worse than the LS1 guys, way worse.
Anyways, good luck with it, and welcome to the club.
I think it comes with age and maturity … I, in my younger-year, was a z fan boy and when I was blessed with a all-mighty 375hp supercharged vq I was beating NA american V8s. I thought I was sooooo proud of myself. Luckily no one got hurt, no one went to jail, and we all made it.
I have come to realize (mostly from being at drag strips, 1/2 events, and circuit courses) that we’re small fish in a big pond … and there will always be someone faster than you, someone who has more money, and someone better … just the way it is.
If you remind the RevUp and HR guys that DE have more torque (as DarkZ mentioned) it usually shuts them up … and then if you tell them that if you were to spin a DE to 7k or 7500rpm you’d made as much hp as they are making…but dont worrry … all the VR30 guys are gonna be talking **** about the HR and VHRs.
Interesting to see what a built VR30 will put down?
Originally Posted by i8acobra
Not to be a dick, but you sound like a young guy that hangs out with other young guys. First... JDM is Japanese Domestic Market. It means a car that was made and sold in Japan. Your 350Z isn't from Japan and isn't JDM. Second, I've never heard anyone over 30 bash a DE 350Z for not having an HR motor. You need to hang out with more mature car guys. Third, 350Z's are NOT highway roll cars. They were designed and built for going around corners. If you want a highway roll car, go back to F-Bodies. I speak from experience. I've owned half a dozen F-bodies and was one of the founding members of the Las Vegas F-Body Association. Fourth, if you want to go forced induction, don't build an 11:1 engine. Yes, it'll handle boost, but not as much as a 9:1 engine.
Would love to hear your opinion on this (and I know too) but why go lower compression with boost?
When I hear people brag that they got a JDM engine, I sorta giggle … because the car came from japan so in a round-about kind of way…they’re all JDM cars. And despite my car being pointed to american while others remained in japan, austrailia/nz, europe … they all have (essentially) the same parts.
Originally Posted by DarkZ03
In general you can call a car made in Japan JDM, or have a JDM inspired setup on the Japanese car, I'm not gonna call you stupid for calling it JDM.
I said that and say that daily but stupid people don't get that and want to make a 600-800hp Z cause they think it's fun".
Lastly 11:1 is fine for a supercharger, ask Tim.....unless you want a draggy queen but you ain't getting that with a supercharger (maybe on a supercharged HR on E85) but not a DE.
Originally Posted by Ponyryd
As stated an 11:1 engine is bad for boost, any engine builder will advise you to build a low compression for boost, high compression is an n/a engine, not boosted
Would love to hear your opinion on this (and I know too) but why go lower compression with boost?
Pony - elaborate - why is 11:1 bad for boost?
For a high horsepower highway roll car, lower compression will allow for much more boost to be run which is what you want for that kind of set-up. If you're building a lower horsepower daily driver, 11:1 compression will make the car more responsive, but will never make the same peak numbers as a lower compression set-up.
For a high horsepower highway roll car, lower compression will allow for much more boost to be run which is what you want for that kind of set-up. If you're building a lower horsepower daily driver, 11:1 compression will make the car more responsive, but will never make the same peak numbers as a lower compression set-up.
This is true for a turbo car, the norm for a supercharged car is 11:1, as far as I know there is no supercharger for this car that will put out so much boost that it would require low compression pistons, as long as the pistons and rods are changed and the car is tuned right then 11:1 is better.
This is true for a turbo car, the norm for a supercharged car is 11:1, as far as I know there is no supercharger for this car that will put out so much boost that it would require low compression pistons, as long as the pistons and rods are changed and the car is tuned right then 11:1 is better.
With enough money, you could install an F1 and run over 20 pounds. 11:1 wouldn't be better then. Like I said, 11:1 would be the better choice for a daily driver, but the OP made it sound like he wants a highway roll race car.
I bought my 350z in early 2003. It was a long time ago. Cars are better now. They are faster. Times have definetly changed. The 350z where I live was pretty expensive here. Now it is kinda Uber cheap. Like worthless in some regards. The first car I ever had was in 1986 it had like 280 something horsepower. Just as much as a 350z when I bought it. Honestly though that 86 ROCKED the 350z in almost every way looks performance hell everything. It is worth more to this day. Which is kinda sad. I bought a 370z. Love it. Will get a 400z too. This site has also changed the cars are old now. No one cares about them. Buy some thing new!
04-02-2022, 07:16 AM
Why do people dog down on any 350Z with the DE engine?
