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Spot opened for the track today and I head out in about an hour.
Going over the car and noticed the clutch fluid was shot... black... fails test... how did I miss that since I've been messing with the brakes for weeks.
Luckily I had an extra bottle of Motul so I could do a couple quick fluid changes.
Thinking Stainless Steel clutch line now too.
Assume it was track/aggresive driving that caused this - heat.
Or maybe the horrible clutch work since I've been trying to teach my daughters how to drive stick - thinking this just kills the friction plate though, not the fluid.
Heat, time and moisture is what kills brake fluid. Probably more to do with track days than driving lessons. But black brake fluid? That's an ominous sign and you'll want to do a full four wheel bleed to get all that old stuff out.
Did another intro day at the track for fun and to test my recent brake upgrades. This day was sunny and 80 with 24 cars - several C7 and C8 Corvettes, couple of Mustangs, Camaros, Civics, WRXs, one GTI and the crown jewel - a 2019 Porsche GT3 RS. The Porsche actually went fairly slow, maybe he didn't want to trash his $250k car. I was the only Nissan again. This day was a bit slower overall than the last time - about 20mph slower across the board - maxed out at 105 on the straightaway. Maybe because the road course director was leading my group and following the rules a little closer? I could keep up the whole time, which I was unable to do last time. Brakes did fine and no issues with my last minute clutch fluid change though I didn't drive quite as hard as last time and it was a few degrees cooler. I was behind a C7 most of the day and he was putting out a lot of rubber - lots of stuff pinging off my car. Don't know for sure if it was him or just stuff on the track, but several black smears on the Z front and sides when I got home.
Discussed broomstick test/roll bar mod options with them and they were non-committal on requirements. Sounds like if I have SCCA rules in hand and show how my mods follow they will allow it. Next step is finding a fabricator and seeing what my ideas are going to cost me. Never had anything custom fab'd before and don't know if I'm in the hundreds or thousands. I have 2 guys I found in northern Virginia area - NOVA Speed Shop and PTuning. Going to give them a call and see if they are interested in my business.
Went to install a stainless insulated clutch hose from Z1 - total fail.
Got my *** kicked trying to remove the old line.
The usual impossible angle with no room to work... can't really see.
Amazingly I got the "worse" end. The "easier" end with better access just won't let go.
Started to twist the hard line and don't want to get in trouble there.
I even let it sit overnight coated in PB blaster.
Other problem is the line from Z1 is wrong and they won't believe it.
Clearly marked 03-06 and they are claiming it's the same for 07-08.... ummm No.
03-06 has a banjo fitting... 07+ has the compression brake line clip thing (tech term) on both ends.
I'm considering just buttoning everything back up and sticking with the stock line.
I had some clutch fade and cooked the fluid on the track, but that was just Dot3.
Swapped to 5.1 and maybe that will be enough of a difference.
Even if I get the correct hose, I think I'm going to need a new hardline to the transmission and so far I'm not finding that very easily.
Did another day at the track, this time with SCCA.
Brakes and clutch did just fine.
Went a little more aggressively this time and got to feel the back end moving around a few times.
Tried to pay attention to tire temps, pressures and wear pattern (based on internet education only) and I think I got things close.
Here is a picture of the tread - obviously some wear, but looks okay... I think?
Maybe a bit too high of pressure... wear not quite to edge of sidewall and a little excessive center wear?
They allowed the ZR based on the current SCCA Time Trial Safety Level 2 rules, which interestingly don't require a broomstick test... as you can see from Picture 2, I'm not even close.
I've been pulling plastic pieces off the factory roll bar setup to see what sort of bolt in brackets I could fashion.
But it looks like I might need a taller windshield as well.
I may have to get some profile pix and measure with helmet on and see if this will work at all or if I'm just too tall.
If I want to do any HDPE training I'll need to pass the broomstick test.
Overall had a great time and although I'm not addicted yet, I'm starting to look at what a hardtop option might cost if I can't get the roadster to work.
Inflation pressures with street tires are difficult to get right. Your tire blocks are beginning to shred around the edges and rollover around the edges indicate you were slightly overinflated. But you don't want to go too far with good street tires that will begin to chunk in bigger sections. If you continue to enjoy this, it's time to consider a set of dedicated track wheels/tires to keep from tearing up a perfectly good set of street tires. But depending on finances, getting a separate Z33 coupe for track use may be a better option...
Looking at getting a dedicated set of track tires.
Don’t plan on doing hardcore racing… just a little HPDE and a few lapping track days here and there.
I’ll also drive 1-2 hours to and from the track on the track tires.
Of course, there is SO MUCH information to consider to the point of info overload.
I think I’ve narrowed it down to this.
Looking for: Long Wear – Heat Tolerance – Price - Warmup
Don’t really care about: Speed – Wet Performance (Vert)
Finalists for tires in my mind are
1 - Continental Extreme Contact Force
2 - Kumho ECSTA V730
3 - Falken Azenis RT615K+ Any comments on the tires I’m considering?
Size is now throwing me off.
Nothing I’ve looked at comes in the “suggested” 245/40/18 & 275/40/18.
I’m tracking the general 3% front-rear issue and think I can get close enough in various combinations.
1 - Continental – 245/35 & 275/35 = 24.8”/25.5”
2 - Kumho – 225/40 & 245/40 = 25.1”/25.7” or 255/35 & 275/35 = 25”/25.6”
3 - Falken - 225/40 & 245/40 = 25.1”/25.6” or 225/40 & 275/35 = 25.1”/25.6”
Stock diameter is about 26” front and 26.7” rear, so these are all a bit smaller diameter.
I don’t think I care about that... speedo a little off, but no real concerns.
255/275 seems like the right choice in the Kumhos or is 255 too wide for the front? Is 225/245 a better "balance" to learn with than 225/275 in the Falkens? Any comment on the size issues?
Price varies significantly too on these consumable items
1 - Falken - $766
2 - Kumho - $850
3 - Continental - $1226
Continental ExtremeContact Force
Falken Azenis RT615K+
Kumho ECSTA V730
Last edited by Unretired; Oct 31, 2022 at 10:21 AM.
Reason: mistake
Finally had time to get to a couple fabricators in the local area with my roll bar ideas.
I had all the interior pieces pulled from the rear and the underlying structural pieces exposed.
Had cardboard tube and pool noodle mock ups of some ideas.
And SCCA Rules in hand.
The bottom line - No can do.
There just isn't room to build up a functional bolt-in roll bar with all the constraints I wanted
- seats all the way back
- bar about 5" higher so I can pass the broomstick test
- removable so I can cruise on weekends
- convertible top still function
- permanent fixtures/brackets not intrude too much in the cabin
I sort of knew that was the correct answer, but was hoping I could make this ZR do just a little more.
If the top dies someday, I'll have a decision point on pulling the whole top and putting in a roll bar.
Until then I just get to enjoy my weekend cruises and occasional follow the leader track day or SCCA Track Night In America.
Luckily I got all the interior pieces back together.
That wasn't a sure things as tabs and brackets tend to break and the hoop covers are supposed to be replaced if removed.
Had to super glue a few tabs and pins but it looks good and holds.
Now I have to decide if wheels and track tires make sense given the limited track options.
I've been debating getting a second set of wheels and tires.
I have stock wheels that are a little beat up - 18x8 & 18x8.5.
And Continental Extreme Contact DWS 06+ All Seasons 225/45 & 245/45.
I like the tires, but the little track time I had was a bit much for them.
Debating whether it is worth the money since I'm not really going to have that much more track time.
So, I went and did something dumb... I added up what I've spent in the last year+ on the car:
OUCH... how did this happen... obviously not all this was necessities, but a bit of an eye opener how much I've spent on my low dollar weekend toy.
Now I'm not sure what to do with this knowledge.... does this mean spend no more?
Or is it telling me that $2500 for wheel and tires isn't really that much in the grand scheme?
Black Friday - Cyber Monday may lead to poor financial decisions...
I've never added up all my expenses for my street Z. And I don't dare to add up the expense for my Z race cars! But think of how much better your ZR runs with the quality parts and lubricants you've added to it. It will continue to run, and run WELL because of the effort put in it, so that should help reassure you. BTW- I'll easily match your set of wheels/tires and raise you a fresh race motor rebuild in this game.
I've never added up all my expenses for my street Z. And I don't dare to add up the expense for my Z race cars! But think of how much better your ZR runs with the quality parts and lubricants you've added to it. It will continue to run, and run WELL because of the effort put in it, so that should help reassure you. BTW- I'll easily match your set of wheels/tires and raise you a fresh race motor rebuild in this game.
I certainly agree that $4k is nothing compared to engine rebuilds/swaps and other massive endeavors some people are doing on this site.
I'm in for maintenance items, a few minor performance tweaks and a couple quality of life upgrades.
Amazing how quickly that adds up... something to think about for the guy putting his last dollar towards purchase.
I went ahead and ordered wheels... went with Konig Hypergrams 9.5 and 10.5.
Probably go with the Kumho Ecsta V730 tires in the spring.
Got the ZR out at least once every 2 weeks over the winter on nice dry days.
Realized I'm going to have to re-think my tire sizes.
A couple of my usual winery/brewery stops have speed bumps that I can barely avoid scraping if I go over them just right.
I'm not going to be able to go any smaller than stock size.
So I've re-worked my list to 255/40/18 and 275/40/18 to keep the 26"/26.7"diameter.
And going to get the tried and true Michelin Pilot Super Sports or the new Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02.
Michelins probably a hair better of a tire... Conti's are just a bit cheaper and may last longer.
Plus for some reason I have an affinity for Continental... always had good experience with my purchases.
Just waiting for the spring Tire Rack specials to post and weather to stay warm enough for summer tires.
Last edited by Unretired; Mar 17, 2023 at 01:50 PM.
Reason: add photo
Finally got tires and had them mounted.
After going back and forth went with General G-Max RS.
Had the Michelin Pilot Super Sports in the Tire Rack shopping cart, but the Generals were $750 vs $1300 so I figured why not.
The darker wheels certainly change the look.
I don't dislike the new wheels, but being an old guy would probably give the nod to the chrome for looks.
Old setup in front was 225/40 and the new 255/40 is about a pound lighter each wheel/tire - 45 lbs now vs 46 lbs.
Rears even more of a change from 49 lbs 245/40 to 46.5 with the new 275/40 setup.
So far I like the tires.
First track day is 11 May, so we will see how they do then.
Finally got tires and had them mounted.
After going back and forth went with General G-Max RS.
Had the Michelin Pilot Super Sports in the Tire Rack shopping cart, but the Generals were $750 vs $1300 so I figured why not.
The darker wheels certainly change the look.
I don't dislike the new wheels, but being an old guy would probably give the nod to the chrome for looks.
Old setup in front was 225/40 and the new 255/40 is about a pound lighter each wheel/tire - 45 lbs now vs 46 lbs.
Rears even more of a change from 49 lbs 245/40 to 46.5 with the new 275/40 setup.
So far I like the tires.
First track day is 11 May, so we will see how they do then.
I just purchased some General G-MAX same size set up for my Z. So far I like them. I dont track just street and canyon runs. Havent gone up to the canyon yet so we'll see how they do when I do
So I finally installed the plugs i've had sitting around forever.
Drivers side seemed okay... little dirtier than I expected but 113k and I'm guessing original plugs?
Passenger side had oil on 1 & 5... crap.
I dutifully did all my searching and it seems that I need spark plug seals which also equals valve covers unless I want to start doing hole saw/RTV mods.
For me the labor is worth new parts so I will probably try and tackle my first real repair.
Questions.
Q1 - Once I get this all taken apart, think I should I just do BOTH valve covers? Assuming I go with Z1 its $301 for the first... $289 for a second.
I'm figuring as a YouTube mechanic this is going to be 50 hours of labor anyway.
Q2 - What else should I be thinking of doing?
Car has been running fine, no codes... any "just in case part" I should replace since I'm already this far?
Q3 - since the car is running fine how urgent do you think this is?
I'd never have known if I just left it alone, so I'm thinking it can wait a few weeks/months.
If I were you, I would just do both valve covers at the same time. You'll already have just about everything off in order to tackle the passenger side. The P/S is a little harder than the driver's side thanks to the not-so-easy-to-reach rear bolts. Also, since the spark plug tube seals are failing on that side, it's probably only a matter of time for the driver's side.
For a little extra insurance, I would put a bead of RTV on the replacement tube seals before installing. Not absolutely necessary, but it will likely extend the life of the new seals.
Don't get the plugs mixed up for the coil packs when reinstalling!
Realized I screwed up the idle after pulling apart the throttle bodies etc.
Could NOT get it to re-learn after dozens of attempts.
After some research, I guess the 2007s and maybe more years have an ECU flaw... dealers just want to sell you a new ECU.
Found a place in Germany, a place in England and thankfully Ethusiast Auto Care in California that said they can repair.
Pulled the ECU and sent it off for a firmware update.
Regrettably, I missed my first track day.
Had a brief scare as the return shipment got lost for a few days by the post office (not Eugene's fault, he had sent me pix of he box when he mailed it).
Then this smashed damp box wrapped in plastic wrap arrived today.
Thankfully everything worked just fine after getting it installed.
Idle Air Relearn took on the first try.
Eugene was responsive and great to deal with - give him a call if you need help
Did another track day on the new tires - General G-Max - not true track tires, but what I got.
76 degrees and hazy, 4 sessions of 15-20 mins.
I was 32-33 lbs cold and 37-38 when hot both front and back.
Fronts wore right to TWI (like the triangle) so I'm thinking i got the pressure right?
Rears were almost 1/2 inch short, so I'm guessing too high a pressure which makes sense after further research ... 3-4-5 lbs less in rear seems common for front engine, rear wheel drive.
Any comments on these pictures?
Anything else I am messing up? Tires doing fine? Tires suck and falling apart?
I really don't know what I am looking at... Do the gummy lines of rubber on some of the edges mean anything?
Looking at those pics remind me of exactly why it's not good to use new street tires at a race track. The General G-Max rears show little wear b/c they are not as stressed as the fronts. Running full tread tire blocks will usually result it the shreading and distortion that your fronts display. Essentially, the severe understeer that you experienced overheated the outside of the front tires and destroyed them. Hard to tell from the photos whether the inflation pressures were in the right range as the rollover on the sidewalls can't be seen.
Thanks fro the reply.
It was a SCCA Track Night in America event at Dominion Raceway near Fredericksburg.
Rears were under I think - General has a TWI instead of the triangle you can see in this picture.
Fronts were almost right
Noisy understeer sounds like what I experienced.
So you are saying I went from destroying All Season Continentals to destroying Summer Generals... maybe I just learn slow.
Are these unsafe - Don't use them again? Or will I just get progressively worse understeer.
The other tire I was considering was the standard Michelin Pilot Super Sport... is that still too street?
I'm only doing 4 maybe 5 events a year... didn't really think it was too crazy but I am running hard when there.
I thought i didn't need true track tires for such limited use.
