willpower

Yeah its a nice feeling.......I pulled into a parking lot today in front of me was the new Z4 beamer Its ok but im not a big fan.....anyway we both parked away from everyone els and faceing opposite each other....three guys came over and asked me all about the Z I left them there looking at it,when I returned to my Z another guy came over and looked around it.....what Im trying to say is four people looked around the Z.....none for the beamer.......now thats a nice feeling, nuff said.


ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZyalater

FormulaRX

Z4 ... overall nice package, sleek car especially the profile; the rear is ugly though.

Z4 2.5 = only 180-190 hp...too weak for the price you pay

Z4 3.0 = more power/torque than the base model + 6 spd tranny but the car is way overpriced for what it delivers

It's hard to attain the level of performance and speed of the 350Z for the price that you can buy it for (28-30K) if you were to choose another car...of course you can get the EVO and for a bit more the STi but they are 4-door cars and the Z looks sleeker IMO. Good choice with the Z...BMWs are overrated anyway in my opinion. I never cared for BMWs...people make big deals about them but when you really look at them, all you're really paying for is the name cuz a lot of cheaper cars can outperform them in a lot of ways.

Desi Z 07

I like both. Im a big BMW fan, and I think the reason that BMWs are envied by car enthusiasts would be because they are a great all round car. Although the price is jacked up because of the name, I think that there are very few cars that pack in all the things that a BMW can bring you. I think it has a lot to do with handling. The guys at Car and Driver, think of the BMW as the benchmark for handling. Of course the 350Z's handling would be better than most BMW considering that its a full fledged sports car, but for some of the sedans that BMW makes, I have to hand it to them, those cars handle pretty good for their size, and class of vehicle. Just my .02 cents.

cincyspider

IMHO, BMW's are ugly boxes with wheels. They have an excellent marketing strategy which ensures an army of clones will buy them as a status symbol. 90% of these people will NEVER even come close to "driving" the car.

z053ym

cincy that was an incredibly stupid comment. BMW's are status symbols for a reason. They are extremely well made and have great service. There are plenty of great things to say about BMWs in general. The Z4 is an awful value though and often called very ugly. But cincy please stop hating

gooters

I heard BMW sells their basic 3-series at practically their cost. The principle is that once you drive a beemer, you get stuck on the brand. I think they are great. The Z4 might not be a great value...but I like it.

tbcz

If you are a true enthusiast driver there is no way you can't at least appreciate some of what BMW has done with their cars after driving one for a while. Say what you will about the styling/price/snob factor, but they are wonderful to drive.

cwerdna

I don't think his comments are that far off the mark. It almost sounds like you belong to the BMW elitist group where some owners swear by their BMWs and think anything non-BMW is crap.

I don't know what you mean by "well made". If you're talking reliability, BMW reliability is spotty at best. The 3 series has had an up and down record, the 7 series is attrociously bad and so is the X5 (which has also had a TON of recalls). I think that the majority of BMW owners will admit that reliability is not up to par w/Japanese cars. My parents and I have owned unreliable cars before, so no thanks. That coupled w/BMW styling (doesn't do it for me), many of them being such a poor value and the high cost of maintenance and repairs means I wouldn't buy one.

Judging by some of the BMW drivers around my area (esp. women), I'd bet at least 80% of them have never taken a performance driving school (to learn proper car control) and gone lapping at a track. It's just like SUVs, 90% of their owners have don't go off-roading in them. That's where I think cincy's comment about people never "driving" the car is on the mark.

When I see cars on the road like the 325i, I just can't help but LOL. Compared to my Maxima, it's more unreliable, smaller on the inside and out, costs WAY more, weighs more, and has 71 horsepower less. My Max would SMOKE it in a straight line. But if they're driving an M3... now we're talking.

ares

iTrader: (2)

thats a bit unfair. M3s and M5s are often seen on tracks, and they are some of the most capable cars ever made, always leading the pack, without the M5 you wouldnt see the E55 or the S8.

the 7 series is a love it or hate it design, but the interior, and the features are second to none. it has so many innovative features. right down to the door, it doesnt hit 3 preset positions, it will open and stop(and stay) at any position from open to close, I dont know of any other cars that do that. antiroll tech in the chassis. ect ect. now the 5 series has the steer by wire with speed sensitive ratios. its been less than accepted, but they still had the ***** to do it when no one else has.

they lead the way, and everyone including jaguar, benz, and audi. follow.

cwerdna

Back to the M3 and M5 being often seen on tracks... well, BMW hardly sells any of them. If you look at last month's sales figures (see http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040302/nytu151_1.html ), a whole 8% of 3 serieses sold were M3s. For the M5, to be fair, look at last year's Feb 03 YTD sales, a whole 4% of 5 serieses sold were M5s. I think this backs up cincy's comments pretty well...

BMW likes throwing all sorts of features (some random, some not so random) on their cars which just add to mechanical and electrical complexity. It means more stuff to break down. I sat in a current gen 7 series and said "holy cow!" there so many controls and levers in the cockpit. I saw the electrically adjustable tilt and telescope wheel and sighed... yet another thing to break. Makes sense that the 7 series has atrocious reliability.

z053ym

cwerdna=HATER Yeh i mean i laugh histerically at every 325i on the road when im in my nissan maxima!
and i have never owned a BMW in my life..

cwerdna

Ok... call me a hater then. It just seems totally silly to me to buy something like a 325i. They're fools to me. Heck, non-"sport sedans" like the Accord V6, Camry V6, Mazda 6 V6, Altima V6 and even Ford Taurus have more power. At least get a 330i or an M3. Think about rationally about all those attributes I mentioned.

It's really funny here how German cars have such "prestige" here. From a lot of what I've read, the Germans don't like (or at least aren't very satisfied with) German cars.

Take a look at http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=02881991
http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/N...453742,00.html

Since you scoff at my Maxima remark, take a look at http://www.jdpower.com/studies_jdpow...ID=674&CatID=1 . Toyota/Lexus won 6/7 of the segments. In the executive/luxury car segment, guess who won? The Maxima won. Not a single German car won any segment.

Hupperware

Z3/Z4 and Miata - Great for the don't ask/don't tell individuals

ares

iTrader: (2)

never driven a bmw I guess, or you would understand the difference. yeah it comes at a premium, but their not alone, mercedes, lexus and audi charge the same premium.

there cars are built well with features that dont always show up on paper like leather and wood dash, and refined ergonomics.

lastly, definitly dont subscribe to the, simpler is better. that would suck if everyone just stuck with the status quo so they never had new tech that might break.

NismoKid

I think BMWs have been getting uglier ever since the '02 model year when the new 7er came out. It's just started to grow on me when it has nice rims. The new 5 and X3 is just plain ugly to me, same with the Z4. Bangle shouldn't ever had gotten his hands on BMW. I'll still get a 2003 M5 one day because I'll always love that car, the same applies to a 2001 750iL and 2004 M3.

z053ym

cwerdna ever entertain the thought of the word "LUXURY".. people dont want a car for its speed all the time or even most of the time. If you want a car for pure speed factor, dont buy a sedan. Or maybe some bmw owners have a nice car on the side for speed.

cwerdna

Sure, there are plenty of luxurious and reliable Japanese cars which are a much better value.

Unreliable to me = crap. If you have to go back repeatedly to get stuff fixed, the car spends a ton of time in the shop and you have to pay a ton of $ to fix it once the warranty is up, it's crap in my book despite a nice interior (yes I'll give you that most current German cars have nice interiors), prestige brand, blah blah.

1337

z04 has no room at all. I sat in one - and after noticing that I can not move my seat back or lean it - I just left -..

Other vehicle that I liked at first very very very much - was cooper - but now seeing it - I would only have one with cloth seats. The leather is way cheap and crapy - although driving one is way fun, but not as much as Z - hehe...

The only product that I would own rather than a Z or g35c would be M3 - but I am not that rich.

ssk0771

iTrader: (5)

All I can say is that BMW is a very solid car. Its craftmanship is very good. My sister use to have on and I drove it alot because it was at my house after she bought a new car.

BMW in general is not the fastest or cheapest but their over all quality is very firm & solid.

BMW is a great car. That is why they are BMW. Theres got to be a reason they sell lots of car and they are in Business and trust me its not because people who drive/buy BMW are idiots.

Just because you don't own one,sdoesn't mean that the car ugly, overprice, and etc.

Let keep open minded and not be ignorant.

cwerdna

Relative to most other makes in the US, BMW sells very FEW cars here. For example, Chevy sells more POS Impalas in the US in a month than BMW sells as many of ALL their models in a month. See below for some example sales figures. Last month, BMW sold 19,561 vehicles. Nissan sold 74,836. GM sold 353,117 (23,288 were Impalas).

As for ugliness, that's rather subjective. I personally wouldn't call most of them ugly. As for overpriced, I think they are pretty darned overpriced for what you get.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040302/nytu151_1.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040302/25653_1.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/cnw/040302/mi_g...4_sales_1.html