z053ym

WOW cerwerdna you are really into this. I dont think ive ever been a part of so much hating. Your talking like BMW's cant stay out of the shop or something. They are incredibly nice cars and are BMW for a reason. You dont buy a BMW to drive it for 10 years and have it be really reliable. Nevermind im done posting here.. you are just too much of a hater and are blinding yourself from realizing things. When i had a honda.. i didnt rant and rave about how much more reliable my car was and how much better it was than cars i couldnt afford that were a lot NICER.

ares

iTrader: (2)

really into it perhaps, but quite mistaken.

rank 2002, brand, problems per 100 vehicles(2002) problems(2001), and lastly 2001 ranking.

1. Lexus 88 85 (1)
2. Acura 107 118 (3)
2. Infiniti 107 123 (7)
4. Toyota 111 121 (5)
5. Volvo 113 154 (22)
6. Honda 115 135 (11)
7. BMW 116 119 (4)

not a bad place to be at 7th according to JD power in 2002.

cwerdna

z053ym: I'm not a hater. If BMW made cars that were competitive performance, reliability, price and value ALL in one, I'd buy one. Go buy a 7 series and keep it for 10 years (I sold my Toyota when it was almost 11 years old) and tell me w/a straight face that it was reliabile. It has a bad reliability record for 4/6 years they have enough info for. The 3 series and 5 series and Z4 reliability are currently ok. The X5 is pretty bad.

As for Ares' numbers, well, if you take a look at Consumer Reports April 04 auto issue, you'll see that for probs w/new vehicles (2003 model year), BMW was below avg with 19 (average was 17). The best was Lexus w/9, followed by Infiniti, Honda, Toyota, Acura, Mazda, Buick, Saturn, Hyundai, Nissan, Pontiac, Dodge, Saab, Kia, Jeep, Chrysler, Ford, Subaru, and Mercury, then BMW.

For probs w/3 year old 2001 model vehicles, they weren't below avg. They had 51, avg was 54. The best was Infiniti w/21 followed by Lexus, Toyota, Acura, Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Bick, Saab, then BMW.

For 5 year old cars, BMW was above average (w/60, average was 79). Best again was Infiniti: 29, followed by Lexus, Acura, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Honda, Mazda, and then BMW.

The is probably my last post on this. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

D'oh

Well, I think BMW has been getting away from their roots lately.

The 3 series is still pretty good, and fairly straightforward.

5 series looks OK, but the variable rate steering to me seems like added complexity and cost for almost no improvement in driving feel. Also, the I-drive is spotty, but better in the 5 than the 7.

7 series look pretty mean, but strange with the hump on the trunk. I-Drive is complete crap in this IMO (according to what I've read about it). The accessory controls should be simple and intuitve, kinda like on the 350Z.

Z4 looks terrible to me. I don't mind the side or the back, but the front completely ruins the car. Looks like it is falling asleep or something (looks kinda sharkish too, not sure why, and I've seen ads that rip off SNL's "land shark", pretty good ads I guess).

I see BMW travelling down the Mercedes road, with lots of luxury and heft and weight and solidity, but loosing a bit of the feel that made them the "ulitmate driving machine".

I hope they focus more on the drive aspect than on the machine aspect in the future.

-D'oh!

stopgo

This link is a bit old, but it's interesting nonetheless.

And the Z3/Z4 is regarded, at least in the UK, as a "hairdresser's car" (e.g. for women and girly-men).

Scott

4myZ350

iTrader: (-1)

• z4 stopps 20ft faster from 70-0 than Zroadster

MonkeyBoy

Seriously, do you have anything else to say besides "hater ... hater .. hater" ? You sound like a kid! If you want to change peoples minds, at least put up some facts or experiences to somewhat validate your points. At least, that is what cerwerdna is doing.

Personally, I would not buy a BMW for the following reasons ... 1) snob factor ... here in SoCal, the snob factor is out the roof with some of these peoples. Yuppies all I say. 2) Reliability. Sorry to say, but BMW's really are terrible in the reliability department. 3) People say the interior is nice, and I have to agree on some of that. But all the electronics in the dash (stereo and what not) look straight out of the 80's. Not sure if it has changed on anything recently, but every BMW I have been in makes me want to puke at the stereo setup and how retarded it looks.

Just my $.02 - and yes, it is JUST an opinion. Some people will always love things just because of what it is, not what it represents; others will not.

1337

Hmm I don't see why someone thinks we are bashing BMW. Z is such a highly competitive car. I mean think about it - find me a product as reliable, with so much power and handling, good looking and popular for 30k. The cheapest nice bmeer you can drive off the lot is at least 50. Then you have to ask yourself WHY?

As I said before - the only BMW that I would rather have than a Z is BMW M3. True art.

boyze

There would be an M3 in my garage if they weren't so expensive. I owned a late 80's 300 series and loved it. I test drove the Z4 3.0 before I bought the Z but I didn't like the weak looking back end styling and it was a bit pricey.

Interestingly, most of the posts on this thread have been reliability related. So far, my '03 Track has had more problems at this point in its life than most of my other cars at the same mileage. Primarily the tire feathering issue. Though not enough to give it up.

z4ken

Well, back to the original post. Ive driven the Z4 and many BMW's and I have owned a 3 series and currently have a X5 so I have a little say in this. Compared to my Z the ride is obviously flatter with no bounce, the comfort and feel are better than the Z's. The interior is a step or two beyond the Z's. Performance wise the Z will absolutely Kill the Z4, the exterior looks are very subjective but the Z gets the nod. Z4 has a way superior stereo. Z's stereo sucks as we all know. Resale value the Z gets the nod. Funny how a 48,000 car like the Z4 can take a dump of something like 12-15K in its first year, ouch!! The Z while multiplying has a good resale value depending on which model and color you got. The Z4 is an awesome car I personally love the heck out of it, but I would never trade my Z in for one. BMW makes very fine autos, and doesnt forget that getting there is half the fun. AMEN!

Desi Z 07

Hey Z4Ken, can you tell us a little bit about your X5. Sorry to hijack the thread, but how does the car drive and handle. My parents are looking into getting one, and I wanted to get an opinion from an actual owner about what they feel about the truck. Thanks in advance. Again, sorry for the OT post.

Sly_Z

iTrader: (18)

I don't think it's a question here? The Z is quicker, better looking and doesn't cost as much.

SCDOO 2

BMW = Bite My Wallet!
(from experience)

328skidpad

I have previously owned 4 bmw's all for 2 years each. Great car but spent too much time at the dealership fixing small glitches. Overall amazing car but reliability made me buy the z....

As for haters out there go drive an 1995-1999 m3 and start talking....

conclusion

dont compare the z to a bmw. two totally different cars.

Phatmitzu

iTrader: (34)

I like BMW. Seriously, if I had the money, I would of gotten a new M3. But for the money we've paid, nothing beats the new Z.

dczoner

iTrader: (1)

A friend of mine's dad was in the market for a sports car about a year ago. He knew I had a 350, so we got to talking, and I found out the other car he was really considering was the Z4.

Well, after talking to him about everything, I reccomended he buy a Z4. Heres a couple of my reasons:

1. Interior quality - Bimmer's are just made better than Nissans. This is in no way bashing Nissan's interior design - its great! But what Nissan's managed to do is take cheaper materials and construction methods and make it look more elegant. Bimmer's go for it with wood trims, accents, etc.

2. Ride stiffness - The 350 is a sports car, pure and simple. By the fact that the FM platform was designed around the premise of staying "flat" under any and all circumstances, its not surprising that too many people consider the Z too bumpy. The Z4 is agile without being harsh. Oh, one thing to consider that BMW does differently than almost anyone else is that they use (almost unilaterally) progressive rate springs versus linear rate springs. That means that BMW's can be more "cushy" during daily driving but can still play ball when it comes to handling.

3. Prestige - BMW's are status symbols. As a college student, even driving a 350z is making a statement. For my friends dad, (who is a very successful therapist) driving a BMW actually has a pyschological effect upon other people in terms of "he made it", etc. The BMW name brand is marketed as a brand to strive for.

4. Dealer experience - Nissan dealerships don't handle the 350Z very well. You get treated the same as someone that bought a base model Sentra. At BMW/ Mercedes/ Lexus/ Audi/ Porsche dealerships they treat you "better", because they realize that you spent some extra cash to be treated better. . .

In the end, I love my 350 and he loves his Z4. And knowing that I could dust him anywhere, anytime, just makes it that much better.