M3's also cost more.

 

I like to keep it in perspective: My 94 300ZX v6 coupe only had 222 horses (the turbo at the time had about 300)....So now comes the 350Z V6 with 287HP and it's not even turbo charged - not bad if you ask me....

 

The British guy is still here, had to go cook a BBQ for the lady.

I had a 2002 Subaru Sti, but then went for a pick up truck while I bought a new house. In the UK Pick up's are classed as commercial vehicles for tax purposes. This means I got a cool truck for £500 a year!

I have looked at the M3 but the company car tax is too much. I have a GSXR-750 also and its hard to justify all the money an M3 will cost me along with the bike. Plus I love the looks of the 350z!

Having had the Sti on track and strip I understand what you mean regarding transmission loss of BHP on all wheel drive cars V's rear wheel drive. I think once rolling the std Z will be as fast as my std Sti, maybe a little faster.

I just wanted to crack the 300Bhp mark!

 

what about s2000
n/a 2.0 with 240 hp?
our nissan should be littel more thatn 287

 

S2000 rev's to 10 grand that's how it gets its power. The s2k has to be at 8k rpms before it makes the power ours makes at 5800-6000rpms. Still a great car.

 

S2K does not revv to 10 grand. The 1st generation revved to 9 Grand and the new ones just over 8. The new ones also run 1/4 mi at 13.8 stock although the displacement has risen to 2.2L.

 

whats this about the G35 having 295HP! is it tuned different and if so can you swap ecu's?

 

M3 is a nice car, there's no denying that. It's the gold standard of performance vehicle. There's no need to be defensive

that said, it cost 60% more and looks like any other BMW 3 series. between the z and M3, girls are more likely come up to you asking "wow is that a porsche" than "wow nice M3"

 

It was a hyperbole. Plus, the new 1/4 numbers for the Z are coming in better than last year. I don't know who the retards were that drove the Z in those magazine tests, but they should have been fired. 13.85 is a no brainer for the Z with a skilled pilot.

 

Nissan is fully capable of making a 350hp+ VQ35DE, but then the engine would cost a lot more. The S54 (M3's engine) that has been brought up time and again in comparison to the VQ35 costs a bit more than $20,000, while the 3.6L H6 in the GT3 costs ~$40,000. High specific output in a medium displacement engine comes at a price, and Nissan's goal for the 350Z was to produce an affordable sports car, not an exotic fighter. The Z is not meant to be overly exotic or be the fastest, quickest, or best handling car in its class; instead, it's meant to be a solid performer all-around that the average person can afford. The Z gets decent gas mileage (which would definitely take a hit if it was equipped with a high strung engine- just look at the S2000's or a Ferrari's gas mileage), is equipped with normal, moderately priced tires (as opposed to, say, the Lotus Elise, which uses expensive, specially made Yokohoma tires), utilizes an engine and platform that is common in Nissan's fleet, and is, overall, a car that was designed with economy in mind, rather than extreme performance.

 

287 is plenty for me...but they coulda thinned 'er out a little. shes a big girl

 

You left out torque, even though torque is most definitely just as important as horsepower. Take that Mustang 5.0, for example. It might only make about 225 hp, but it makes around 300 lb-ft of torque! And it does it with crappy 87 octane gas when it's 100 degrees outside.

Consider trucks, too. Consider a Toyota Tacoma pickup. (Since I used to own one.) It has a 3.4 liter V6, but only puts out 190 hp and 220 lb-ft. That's low! However, you can fill it with bad gas on a hot day, attach a trailer, and it'll behave pretty much like it would with good gas on a cooler day.

That's one of the problems with highly tuned, high specific output engines. They are very dependent on gas octane and environmental conditions. You put 87 octane in a Z on a 100 degree day, and watch what happens. Worse yet, do the same in an M3... or just about *any* sports car turbo engine. Ouch! My car prior to the Z was an Audi with a 1.8t turbo. I had it modified (bigger turbo and more boost) to put out about 235 hp and 250 lb-ft of torque. But on a hot day in the summer, I'll bet it wasn't anywhere close to that.

So that is the advantage to bigger displacement with less output.

 

Some interesting points being made.

In the UK you can buy two grades of fuel

Premium 95 Octane @ £0.82 per litre
Optimax / Ultima 98 Octane £0.89 per litre.

Two Specs of 350Z in Uk.

£24999 Basic
£27999 Touring which is leather and Rays 18 alloys.

No Roadster!

Exchange Rate is $1.8 > £1

I need more power

 

Also remember that the UK uses a different octane rating than the US. Here we use:

(RON + MON)/2

Not sure what's used in the UK... I think it's either just straight RON or MON. (?) This results in our octane numbers appearing much lower than the UK numbers, even though the actual octanes are similar.

 

just for comparison, let's consider the horsepower graphs of the e46 m3 vs. 350z. i'm going to pretend the horsepower plot is linear for both cars (it's not, but it makes the math easy).

at redline (8100 rpm), the m3 makes 333hp.
at redline (6800 rpm), the 350z makes 287hp.

now, if the m3's plot is linear, then at 6800 rpm it makes (333 * (6800 / 8100)) = 280 hp.
if we extend the z's redline (theoretically), we find it making (287 * (8100 / 6800)) = 342hp.

obviously, there is a huge fudge factor to these numbers, so they are not that meaningful. but what it does tell us is that at similar rpm ranges, the 350z engine is on par with the m3 engine's performance. of course, the m3's s54 engine is a much more highly tuned design than the vq35, which allows them to get similar performance with 3.2 liters versus the z's 3.5, and gain those extra 1300 rpm. it also means that they get 16mpg versus the z's 19-20, as well as the occasional exploding engine (last i saw a few years ago, they were over 100 blown s54s in the u.s. and canada). considering the price i paid for the z, i think the hp difference is definitely acceptable.

 

no, that is what is projected for the 2005's and on. They have not even been released yet, only projections.

 

it does take a lot of extra engineering to make sure everything runs fine consistently at 8100RPM though...

 

I'm pretty sure M3 engines are hand-made by little elves. I'm not sure about the elf part.

 

If I remember correctly, the 350Z is manufactured in Japan.

Due to the "gentleman's agreement" that the Japanese manufacturers have with their Department of Transport, no passenger car is allowed to make more than 287hp / 206kW, unless its purely for an export market.

While its not law, the manufacturers gave their word that they wouldn't, and with Japanese culture its as strong as any law.

While this means that Nissan, Subaru, etc could make cars that pump out more power, it means they need to spend money developing them.

There are JDM cars out there that make more than 206kW (The Skyline R34 GT-R N1, which is advertised at 206kW, has made 216kW at all four wheels in stock trim on a dyno, and most estimates say the Evo VIII makes around 221kW at the flywheel) but they are still advertised making that power.

If they were to sell these cars in the export market without making modifications, it would be a tacit admission that their cars don't comply with the gentleman's agreement.

For some reason, tuning companies are not held to this, which is why Nismo and STi can sell cars that are advertised making clear over the 287hp limit. Its only the big manufacturers that have to limit themselves.


The STis that the British member is referring to are UK-tuned spec. They are tuned by Subaru / Prodrive in Britain, and so are not bound by that gentleman's agreement.

 

I thought the gentleman's agreement was dropped like a year ago. Wasn't there a thread on here about that?