By that logic, then what's the use of having a high performance sports car if it's just going to sit in traffic. You could have bought a Sentra and got the same 2mph driving enjoyment out of it.

 

shimz, you are a flaming troll. Congratulations!

" I'm getting sick of these ignorant "manual" enthusiasts posts."

I'm getting sick of you girls constantly worried about what everyone else thinks. You could have easily made a more productive thread. It would have required the application of intelligence though.

 

SL's are not sports cars -- they are fat, heavy pieces of garbage with beautiful engines saddled to slush boxes so 40 year old fat rich Americans to feel like they are driving a "racecar".

I prefer BMW's approach of mating high-performance platforms to manuals or SMG's.

 

I want to dispel this (wrong-headed) idea that sequentials are automatics.

Sequentials are not automatics. Seguentials use manual gearboxes mated to hydrallic-actuated clutches and shifters (that are computer controlled). For the most part -- the clutches and shifters are traditional as well -- they are just controlled by a computer. My M3 SMGII had the same gearbox -- right down to the part number -- as the 6MT version. There is no torque converter on a sequential. Sequentials offer all the responsiveness of a regual 6MT, but without loosing time shifting or distracting the driver from his shifting. I can tell you from experience that sequentials truly allow the driver to focus on the line.

Automatics are NOT the equivalent of Sequentials and vice versa. Automatics ARE smoother shifting than sequentials, and in that respect better than sequentials (which tend to be abrupt and jerky when used in town -- as opposed to on the track). But as a former SMG owner who tracked his M3 regularly -- I can tell you that there is nothing better than driving a sequential on the track. I can also tell you that it is no automatic. BTW, the BMW SMG will NOT upshift at the rev-limiter (ask me how I know).

Personally -- I do think it is wrong to saddle a high-performance car with an slushbox. But hey -- if you have one -- enjoy it. Given the choice between MT and auto -- I would go MT everytime. But they offered a sequential, I would jump on it.

BTW -- the DB9 and 911 are traditional autos (not sequentials).

 

I agree that many M3 owners go SMG because it seems like you are getting an auto (and is marketed as such by the dealers -- but not by BMW). The SMG tranny is actually better for track driving -- and that is why I got it. It allows you to focus on your lines and keep your hands on the wheel -- but still delivers the responsiveness and rev-matching that comes with an MT. Also -- note that BMW's supreme sports car (the CSL) is only available with the same SMG as comes on the regular M3. BMW truly believes that the SMG is the higher performance option (it just does not do standing starts as well).

BTW, I agree with you are the cabrio thing -- it's really sad to see such a beautiful car saddled with all that extra weight and structurally weakend.

 

No, Dave, you're missing his point. The "logic" is to try to find a way to have BOTH an enjoyable daily driver that you don't have to clutch when you can't use the performance traits of the car, but STILL have a good-looking, reliable sports car that can kick most competing butt when the time comes to step on it and rag it out, both in a straight line and in the twisties. The manumatic is a compromise, yes, but a small one. I haven't lost very much "connectedness" w/the car at all since switching to 5AT; contrary to what some folks apparently fear, the loss of my 6MT G hasn't resulted in the need to see my Dr. about a Viagra scrip.

BTW, to the extent some folks would argue that the BMW M3 w/SMG & paddles would be a "better" choice for people who want what I (and I think Dio) do out of a car, I probably w/n disagree (but I will admit the reliablility probs Bimmer has had w/the SMG tranny concern me a bit). For what I decided I wanted, however, the M3 would have to be a convt., which comes at a $20K price premium I simply did not want to pay right now with various home improvement projects ongoing or planned.

I'm trying to "save up" and plan for the new Skyline around '07 or '08, if they make it, and if they offer some sort of paddle shift or automanual. If not, I may consider the upcoming M4 w/SMG, assuming they iron out all the bugs by then.

P.S.: For those flaming the flamers and trolling the trolls, I think there is SOME good discussion content to this thread. On the other hand, if I'm completely wrong and the whole thread stinks, what does it say about someone who would take the time to read a whole thread (that stinks), and then also take the time to post (and say it stinks)? The phrase "too much free time" comes to mind. I'll bet most folks just clik on by to another thread if a given thread stinks.

 

It's good to finally have someone chime in with the facts about SMGs. I know that F1 trans are very different from autos, but I didn't know the details of SMG and thanks for clarifying. The way I think of it, anything that shows up in F1 racing is meant to perform (F1 shifts are in thousanths of a second!).

I don't know if you've heard of a guy on e46fanatics doing an M3 engine/smg trans swap on his 323i. He pointed out that the SMG trans was the same as the 6-speeds so anyone with an SMG can switch it to 6-speed easily (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...3&page=1&pp=20).

But the thing that still irks me about the Ferrari F1 trans is the ability of the driver to put it in full automatic mode (so the paddles don't even have to be used). If they didn't have that feature, I would probably assume that more drivers are enthusiasts. I don't know if the SMGs can go in this mode, but I wish they wouldn't off the auto-mode to help "weed" out the non-enthusiasts

 

Seems like SMGs are autos to me.

 

Are you seriously f*cking kidding me???

 

So do I, but whether you or I like it or not, there are probably a lot of fat, old, rich guys driving a 4-door E55 AMG that, even with a manumatic, and even though they may not be real enthusiasts, will eat your M3 for lunch (.6 or .7 sec quicker to 60, your better skidpad #s notwithstanding).

 

Any transmission that shifts automatically is an auto.

If you wanna be more specific and talk about autos with TQ Converters over autos with direct links such as DSGs or SMGs then go ahead but guess what, they're both autos.

 

SMG's are no where close to being an automatic.

 

Being naturally lazy (I drive an automatic these days), I haven't bothered to read all the posts in this thread. However, I'm always a little bit amazed that someone who drives a manual takes the time to complain about the person who drives an automatic, and vice versa. I mean, why do you care?

 

Skrill, I don't think you can assume that Aggro didn't know the engineering realities of transmissions that you explained. I don't know, but I think his (and others) point was that, despite the fact that SMGs and their ilk work off the manual tranny design (yes, they do have a "full auto" mode, in the sense that you don't even have to work the paddles, if you don't want to; I've always called an auto w/a manual function a "manumatic," and a SMG or manual-based tranny an "automanual"), even when a paddle shift tranny is in full "manual" mode, regardless of the engineering principles of the tranny, the process itself is more "automated," simply by virtue of the fact that you don't have to MANUALLY push a clutch pedal, in addition to some sort of shifter. In other words, when you pull the paddle, the tranny "automatically" clutches, syncros, and shifts, by itself, albeit blindingly fast. Some folks are using the terms "automatic" and "manual" the way you would find them defined in Webster's, not the way a transmission engineer would define them.

 

See - I told you guys it would come to paddles, look back on page one. What a Silly Silly thread this has turned out to be

Lou

 

The SMG is auto mode is soooo bad. It does a very bad job of trying to pretend it's an automatic. The computer logic just isn't there yet. You have to experience it to believe it.

The SMGII does use the same 6-speed Getrag gearbox as the regular M 6MT (shared by the M3 and the M5). The gearbox in an M3 -- SMG or manual -- is definately not the same one found in the regular 3-series.,

 

You -- and everyone who thinks like you -- is just wrong.

It's a gross over generalization. Untill you have driven a sequential -- you probably should not comment.

 

Straight line -- who cares. Put a E55 and an E46 M3 on a road track, then we will see who eats who's lunch.

I have seen plenty of big fat sedans with big engines get taken by smaller cars. Hell -- I have seen two spec Miatas take a Gallardo (with an idiot driver) down at Willow Springs. And spec miatas put out about 140 hp.

I have never been on a track with an E55 -- but I have overtaken an RS6 driven by a top-notch driver at Laguna Seca.

BTW, I sold the M3. I will be getting a 350Z (track model of course) very soon.

 

Now that I've got all the SMG people riled up....

Who says I haven't?

The totally stupid statements which I made were made to prove a point, that you "OMFG AUTOS SUCK!!!!1111!!one!!!!1 ITS NOT A REAL CAR!" people make the same gross overgeneralizations.

Guess what, an auto is a valid tranny.

An SMG is a valid tranny.

A good ol' manual is a valid tranny.

None is better than the others its all personal preference. Get off everyone's case for what THEY bought.

 

A sports car without a stick is like a Barbie doll with out ****. It just doesn't make sense.