MT - Do you downshift?
11-01-2004, 10:28 AM
#22
Originally posted by The Brickyard Rat
One note of caution in the downshifting process: it is very easy to hit 2nd gear when your trying for 4th.
Get a good feel of where 2nd & 4th are.
Question for the tech guys: will the rev limiter save one from over reving the tranny if 2nd, instead of 4th, is hit?
One note of caution in the downshifting process: it is very easy to hit 2nd gear when your trying for 4th.
Get a good feel of where 2nd & 4th are.
Question for the tech guys: will the rev limiter save one from over reving the tranny if 2nd, instead of 4th, is hit?
11-01-2004, 10:32 AM
#23
Originally posted by foochdawg
Ok, ok. I think I got this now lol. So:
1.)you push in the clutch(disengage) so that you can put it into neautral
2.)Once you are in neutral you let off the clutch(engage) so that the tranny and engine ar combined again
3.) You blip the throttle to get the tranny side of the clutch spinning faster
4.) you then press in the clutch(disengage) and put it in the proper, lower gear and let off the clutch quickly so that the tranny side is still spinning the higher speed when it engages with the engine and it matches it's speed.
That seem close? In the ball park? lol
Ok, ok. I think I got this now lol. So:
1.)you push in the clutch(disengage) so that you can put it into neautral
2.)Once you are in neutral you let off the clutch(engage) so that the tranny and engine ar combined again
3.) You blip the throttle to get the tranny side of the clutch spinning faster
4.) you then press in the clutch(disengage) and put it in the proper, lower gear and let off the clutch quickly so that the tranny side is still spinning the higher speed when it engages with the engine and it matches it's speed.
That seem close? In the ball park? lol
Just for the sake of semantics, when you push the pedal in, you are actually engaging the clutch. Letting the pedal out effectively disengages the clutch. Since the point of the clutch is to disconnect the engine from the tranny to allow for gear changes, engaging the clutch to do it's job is done by pushing the pedal down.
Regardless, you're on the right track!!! Have fun!
11-01-2004, 11:13 AM
#24
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You don't need to double clutch to rev match. I do it quickly while the clutch is still pushed in. Here's an example when driving in the Z. I brake til 2000rpms, push the clutch in, rev to 2,600 rpms, clutch out quickly and it's very smooth (I'm still on the gas a little bit after the clutch is out, makes it a little smoother). If I decide for whatever reason to shift slower, I rev to 3000 rpms and the revs drop to 2600 by the time I get off the clutch. You'll know how much to rev with trial and error and it'll be second nature in no time.
Also, what are the advantages of double clutching? My friend says he can downshift faster than I, but I just cannot believe it (maybe I've learned to shift faster?). Is it a smoother transition or something? Thanks in advance.
Also, what are the advantages of double clutching? My friend says he can downshift faster than I, but I just cannot believe it (maybe I've learned to shift faster?). Is it a smoother transition or something? Thanks in advance.
11-01-2004, 11:19 AM
#25
Originally posted by foochdawg
I was also wondering this. The average driver doesn't drive like this do they? I mean say I just enjoy cruising around with the occasional show of speed. It is going to be detrimental if I don't "double clutch"? Is the only benefeit to this for track use? And maybe making the tranny last an extra few months?
I was also wondering this. The average driver doesn't drive like this do they? I mean say I just enjoy cruising around with the occasional show of speed. It is going to be detrimental if I don't "double clutch"? Is the only benefeit to this for track use? And maybe making the tranny last an extra few months?
11-01-2004, 11:45 AM
#26
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Double clutching is not a requirement. I never double clutch. Double clutching to my knowledge is more for 18 wheelers and big machinery. Thats where i've seen the most comments on it anyhow. I think it can be helpful however but it doesn't seem necessary
11-01-2004, 11:48 AM
#27
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Originally posted by NismoKid
You don't need to double clutch to rev match. I do it quickly while the clutch is still pushed in. Here's an example when driving in the Z. I brake til 2000rpms, push the clutch in, rev to 2,600 rpms, clutch out quickly and it's very smooth (I'm still on the gas a little bit after the clutch is out, makes it a little smoother). If I decide for whatever reason to shift slower, I rev to 3000 rpms and the revs drop to 2600 by the time I get off the clutch. You'll know how much to rev with trial and error and it'll be second nature in no time.
Also, what are the advantages of double clutching? My friend says he can downshift faster than I, but I just cannot believe it (maybe I've learned to shift faster?). Is it a smoother transition or something? Thanks in advance.
You don't need to double clutch to rev match. I do it quickly while the clutch is still pushed in. Here's an example when driving in the Z. I brake til 2000rpms, push the clutch in, rev to 2,600 rpms, clutch out quickly and it's very smooth (I'm still on the gas a little bit after the clutch is out, makes it a little smoother). If I decide for whatever reason to shift slower, I rev to 3000 rpms and the revs drop to 2600 by the time I get off the clutch. You'll know how much to rev with trial and error and it'll be second nature in no time.
Also, what are the advantages of double clutching? My friend says he can downshift faster than I, but I just cannot believe it (maybe I've learned to shift faster?). Is it a smoother transition or something? Thanks in advance.
All double clutching does is add one more pedal push to the whole process!
I downshift the way you do NismoKid....
11-01-2004, 12:30 PM
#28
It's not a requirement, but in the days when gearboxes didn't have syncros in them, you *had* to do this to get the dog-gears to mesh properly. Now, you lazy guys ( 
) rely on the syncros to do the job of properly aligning the engine/input-shaft/output-shaft for you.
I want my syncros to do as little work as possible, so I double-clutch when I'm playing!
It's all about the fun!
) rely on the syncros to do the job of properly aligning the engine/input-shaft/output-shaft for you. I want my syncros to do as little work as possible, so I double-clutch when I'm playing!
It's all about the fun!
11-01-2004, 03:19 PM
#29
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Hey, guys,
I just wanted to thank everyone for the great info. I just bought an '04 Touring, fully loaded (except satellite radio) this past Saturday! My first manual. I've been playing with it the last two days and am starting to get the hang of it.
I think I'll put double-clutching off for a bit since it's not really necessary. But I also appreciate the info on hills in the other thread DesiGuy started about learning to drive 6spd. :-)
I can't wait to get past concentrating so much on shifting so that I can enjoy this car. I've only been able to play a little bit, and it feels like it'll be GREAT FUN! And once the APS TT gets its CARB EO...whew, that'll be a thrill!
Carlin
I just wanted to thank everyone for the great info. I just bought an '04 Touring, fully loaded (except satellite radio) this past Saturday! My first manual. I've been playing with it the last two days and am starting to get the hang of it.
I think I'll put double-clutching off for a bit since it's not really necessary. But I also appreciate the info on hills in the other thread DesiGuy started about learning to drive 6spd. :-)
I can't wait to get past concentrating so much on shifting so that I can enjoy this car. I've only been able to play a little bit, and it feels like it'll be GREAT FUN! And once the APS TT gets its CARB EO...whew, that'll be a thrill!
Carlin
11-01-2004, 04:05 PM
#30
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when slowing down I put in neutral and hit brake and get ready to down shift all at the same time. Its cheaper to replace the brake pads than the clutch thats why I dont down shift to brake and if u down shift alot with someone riding with u , they will puke all over ur car.
Last edited by jor8888; 11-01-2004 at 04:07 PM.
11-01-2004, 04:53 PM
#33
I could be wrong, but I believe we are talking about "heel and toe shifting". Here is an excellent article dealing this art of shifting.
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/how...2/article.html
I've been using this technique for about 40 years and it works great.
Les
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/how...2/article.html
I've been using this technique for about 40 years and it works great.
Les
11-01-2004, 05:07 PM
#34
Originally posted by jor8888
when slowing down I put in neutral and hit brake and get ready to down shift all at the same time. Its cheaper to replace the brake pads than the clutch thats why I dont down shift to brake and if u down shift alot with someone riding with u , they will puke all over ur car.
when slowing down I put in neutral and hit brake and get ready to down shift all at the same time. Its cheaper to replace the brake pads than the clutch thats why I dont down shift to brake and if u down shift alot with someone riding with u , they will puke all over ur car.
1. Proper double-clutching minimizes wear to brakes, clutch and transmission (syncros). That's one of the points of it all.
2. This is without a doubt a performance driving technique. While I could argue that I can double-clutch as smoothly as you brake, I can't say that I do it all the time either. I can say that I rev-match 100% of the time because I want the already crappy syncros in my tranny to last as long as possible, but that's different than double-clutching. I definitely don't want anyone puking in my car!!!
11-01-2004, 06:47 PM
#35
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I downshift and rev match almost all the time when I slow down, sometimes even to the 1st gear when I make complete stop. (It won't harm your transmission if you do it correct even the 1st gear) I rev match it and try to do it so habitually that I can almost do it like a natural instinct. I deliberately try to do hill&toe when I slow down to make right or left turn. It's just all practice and it's just too much fun! I mean this is all about the manual transmission. I will never be able to drive automatic cuz manual is just FUN.
I mean this is all about the manual transmission. I will never be able to drive automatic cuz manual is just FUN.
11-02-2004, 07:28 AM
#36
Originally posted by seanrulz
I downshift and rev match almost all the time when I slow down, sometimes even to the 1st gear when I make complete stop. (It won't harm your transmission if you do it correct even the 1st gear) I rev match it and try to do it so habitually that I can almost do it like a natural instinct. I deliberately try to do hill&toe when I slow down to make right or left turn. It's just all practice and it's just too much fun! I mean this is all about the manual transmission. I will never be able to drive automatic cuz manual is just FUN.
I downshift and rev match almost all the time when I slow down, sometimes even to the 1st gear when I make complete stop. (It won't harm your transmission if you do it correct even the 1st gear) I rev match it and try to do it so habitually that I can almost do it like a natural instinct. I deliberately try to do hill&toe when I slow down to make right or left turn. It's just all practice and it's just too much fun!
I mean this is all about the manual transmission. I will never be able to drive automatic cuz manual is just FUN.
11-02-2004, 08:52 AM
#37
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i downshift revmatch everytime, almost every stop as well. no double clutching for me. heel toeing is what im working on, because i seem to miss the pedal everynow and then still. I do it for now other reason than enjoyment of having a manual car. I could care less about saving brakepads.
11-02-2004, 09:10 AM
#38
Originally posted by mofoz
i downshift revmatch everytime, almost every stop as well. no double clutching for me. heel toeing is what im working on, because i seem to miss the pedal everynow and then still. I do it for now other reason than enjoyment of having a manual car. I could care less about saving brakepads.
i downshift revmatch everytime, almost every stop as well. no double clutching for me. heel toeing is what im working on, because i seem to miss the pedal everynow and then still. I do it for now other reason than enjoyment of having a manual car. I could care less about saving brakepads.
11-02-2004, 09:43 AM
#39
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Originally posted by nitrousoxidex
I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if someone around can help us by posting a Video on their downshift techniques like heel-toe n stuff.
Visuals can help a lot in learning.
I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if someone around can help us by posting a Video on their downshift techniques like heel-toe n stuff.
Visuals can help a lot in learning.
11-02-2004, 10:33 AM
#40
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Originally posted by kcobean
Actually, double-clutching and heel&toe are two different things, but used together in performance driving to create fluid and ideally seamless transitions from power to braking, back to power. Once you learn to do it, it's really fun and makes driving a manual car just that much more exhilerating.
Actually, double-clutching and heel&toe are two different things, but used together in performance driving to create fluid and ideally seamless transitions from power to braking, back to power. Once you learn to do it, it's really fun and makes driving a manual car just that much more exhilerating.