On the future of the Z, NISMO and future Nissan technologies
10-30-2008, 12:05 PM
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On the future of the Z, NISMO and future Nissan technologies
This started as a reply in another thread, but it seemed appropriate to throw it out as a new thread to discuss. It's simply thinking "out loud":
Here's what I think. The Nismo Z will come out a year after the initial launch. Again, you don't need it at first... use it to re-build excitement later.
Also, I would bet it comes with a tuned VQ37 or so... not a V8 or anything drastic. It may not even increase in displacement or physical attributes... just ecu tuning and intake/exhaust differences... the VQ37 has some headroom left, especially if you develop direct injection for it.
And at least a 50/50 chance of a DCT tranny. The DCT trannies have multiple advantages. But the main thing, is that they improve acceleration for a given amount of power. In fact, that's why Nissan put one in the GT-R. Without the DCT, the GT-R would be much slower and not post the inredible acceleration and track times. It's not really cheating, but it's a bit of trickery.
Point is, to make the NISMO Z faster, instead of spend money on bigger, heavier engines with worse fuel economy, put some development budget into the future... using DI and/or a cheaper DCT for the Z.
Keep it light, and you could have a 3200 pound track car with 370 HP and lightning quick shifting. This thing would beat almost anything for twice the price, and do it affordably, because except for the DCT, there aren't any major additional costs for an engine tune, some body work, stiffer shocks, etc. The power/weight ratio would be better than the new M3, the new Cayman S with DI (and PDK tranny), even knock on the back door of the new 911 S version... with 0-60 right at 4 seconds flat and solid 12's in the 1/4.
And they could do it for about ~5K more than upper models of the 370 range.
At that price, for a track car, it'd be a steal.
I think option #2 (unlikely) is to go for the gusto, and straight for the GT3.
Increase displacement to 4L, bump compression, etc. Now, you're looking at $10K more than the top models, but the performance of ~400HP in a 3200 pound car would be stunning. Isn't that why people pay $45K for a Vette? It ain't the interior materials...
I wonder if they have plans for both options? I doubt they would develop an R and NISMO model to cover both scenarios... but you never know. They both have merit, and there's room in the lineup. Neither would encroach into the GT-R.
I would also like to know when Nissan will embrace direct injection. This is another technological "freebie". You get more power AND better fuel economy. I wonder if there are issues with getting it to play nice with the VVEL? I would think every manufacturer is jumping on board with DI as soon as possible, considering how important fuel economy has become.
A given car with direct injection and a DCT tranny will act like it has 20% more power than a car that does not, and add a little fuel economy boost as well. It's the next step. The new Porsche's with DI and their PDK will post some very impressive acceleration numbers from what would appear fairly modest engine sizes... just wait. The new Cayman S will have both technologies, and be rated at only ~315 HP. Just wait to see how a PDK CS accelerates... and you'll understand this is the way of the future.
I guess my point is that there are several technologies that Nissan has not chosen to impliment brand-wide in mainstream vehicles, like DI and DCT. A NISMO Z might be a good showcase to introduce DI, DCT or both. Without knowing how far along their development of mainstream DI and DCT technologies are, it's harder to figure out what the NISMO Z might have.
The DCT stuff is really a non-issue, because Nissan doesn't develop their own trannies. The GT-R DCT is by Borg-Warner (who does Audi/VW also), and the Porsche PDK is by ZF. But the Direct Injection R&D would be internal. Anybody heard anything? I have not...
Borg-warner says their next gen dual clutch trannies come out for 2010. But Nissan has traditionally used Aisin trannies, and Aisin is going to come out with a dual clutch tranny for the new STI within a year or so... so they are developing DCT technology, as are other suppliers. Maybe although Nissan needed the technology for the GT-R immediately, they wanted to go with Aisin long-term for the higher volume/more mainstream models.
And as long as I'm shooting off my mouth, wtf is up with NISMO? Nissan has been saying for years how they are going to really push it in the US. But honestly, all I have seen so far is a limited lineup of decently built parts with very modest gains and ridiculously high pricing compared to competitors... of course it isn't taking off.
I really think they should offer NISMO branded/developed "performance kits". Like integrated intake/exhaust/ECU packages. I don't think they see the value that the consumer would pay for a developed, tested package from one supplier that all integrates perfectly. The NISMO linup is slim (except for the 350Z), and medicore for the most part. Yeah, just what I need - another billet oil cap with NISMO written on it. Or valve stem caps. Or pedals. Or shift ****. Or key chain. I mean, really? Give me a break. I used to work for a performance company, and now I run a marketing company... so I get both sides of the equation. Except for bumper stickers and shirts, I don't think we made a single product that didn't make power/better handling/smoother shifting/etc...
Either kill it, or get on it... but don't half-a$$ it. You gotta go FULL-a$$... they have no street-cred, imo. For goodness sake, even TRD offers supercharger kits for various vehicles. Toyota! You know, the FWD company. It'd suck for my NISMO Z to be passed by a TRD supercharged Camry... that stupid "Baby on Board" sticker waving at me as it blows by...
</done>
p.s. - Nissan, if you want to know how to fix anything else, just pm me... I'll have my people call your people.
Here's what I think. The Nismo Z will come out a year after the initial launch. Again, you don't need it at first... use it to re-build excitement later.
Also, I would bet it comes with a tuned VQ37 or so... not a V8 or anything drastic. It may not even increase in displacement or physical attributes... just ecu tuning and intake/exhaust differences... the VQ37 has some headroom left, especially if you develop direct injection for it.
And at least a 50/50 chance of a DCT tranny. The DCT trannies have multiple advantages. But the main thing, is that they improve acceleration for a given amount of power. In fact, that's why Nissan put one in the GT-R. Without the DCT, the GT-R would be much slower and not post the inredible acceleration and track times. It's not really cheating, but it's a bit of trickery.
Point is, to make the NISMO Z faster, instead of spend money on bigger, heavier engines with worse fuel economy, put some development budget into the future... using DI and/or a cheaper DCT for the Z.
Keep it light, and you could have a 3200 pound track car with 370 HP and lightning quick shifting. This thing would beat almost anything for twice the price, and do it affordably, because except for the DCT, there aren't any major additional costs for an engine tune, some body work, stiffer shocks, etc. The power/weight ratio would be better than the new M3, the new Cayman S with DI (and PDK tranny), even knock on the back door of the new 911 S version... with 0-60 right at 4 seconds flat and solid 12's in the 1/4.
And they could do it for about ~5K more than upper models of the 370 range.
At that price, for a track car, it'd be a steal.
I think option #2 (unlikely) is to go for the gusto, and straight for the GT3.
Increase displacement to 4L, bump compression, etc. Now, you're looking at $10K more than the top models, but the performance of ~400HP in a 3200 pound car would be stunning. Isn't that why people pay $45K for a Vette? It ain't the interior materials...
I wonder if they have plans for both options? I doubt they would develop an R and NISMO model to cover both scenarios... but you never know. They both have merit, and there's room in the lineup. Neither would encroach into the GT-R.
I would also like to know when Nissan will embrace direct injection. This is another technological "freebie". You get more power AND better fuel economy. I wonder if there are issues with getting it to play nice with the VVEL? I would think every manufacturer is jumping on board with DI as soon as possible, considering how important fuel economy has become.
A given car with direct injection and a DCT tranny will act like it has 20% more power than a car that does not, and add a little fuel economy boost as well. It's the next step. The new Porsche's with DI and their PDK will post some very impressive acceleration numbers from what would appear fairly modest engine sizes... just wait. The new Cayman S will have both technologies, and be rated at only ~315 HP. Just wait to see how a PDK CS accelerates... and you'll understand this is the way of the future.
I guess my point is that there are several technologies that Nissan has not chosen to impliment brand-wide in mainstream vehicles, like DI and DCT. A NISMO Z might be a good showcase to introduce DI, DCT or both. Without knowing how far along their development of mainstream DI and DCT technologies are, it's harder to figure out what the NISMO Z might have.
The DCT stuff is really a non-issue, because Nissan doesn't develop their own trannies. The GT-R DCT is by Borg-Warner (who does Audi/VW also), and the Porsche PDK is by ZF. But the Direct Injection R&D would be internal. Anybody heard anything? I have not...
Borg-warner says their next gen dual clutch trannies come out for 2010. But Nissan has traditionally used Aisin trannies, and Aisin is going to come out with a dual clutch tranny for the new STI within a year or so... so they are developing DCT technology, as are other suppliers. Maybe although Nissan needed the technology for the GT-R immediately, they wanted to go with Aisin long-term for the higher volume/more mainstream models.
And as long as I'm shooting off my mouth, wtf is up with NISMO? Nissan has been saying for years how they are going to really push it in the US. But honestly, all I have seen so far is a limited lineup of decently built parts with very modest gains and ridiculously high pricing compared to competitors... of course it isn't taking off.
I really think they should offer NISMO branded/developed "performance kits". Like integrated intake/exhaust/ECU packages. I don't think they see the value that the consumer would pay for a developed, tested package from one supplier that all integrates perfectly. The NISMO linup is slim (except for the 350Z), and medicore for the most part. Yeah, just what I need - another billet oil cap with NISMO written on it. Or valve stem caps. Or pedals. Or shift ****. Or key chain. I mean, really? Give me a break. I used to work for a performance company, and now I run a marketing company... so I get both sides of the equation. Except for bumper stickers and shirts, I don't think we made a single product that didn't make power/better handling/smoother shifting/etc...
Either kill it, or get on it... but don't half-a$$ it. You gotta go FULL-a$$... they have no street-cred, imo. For goodness sake, even TRD offers supercharger kits for various vehicles. Toyota! You know, the FWD company. It'd suck for my NISMO Z to be passed by a TRD supercharged Camry... that stupid "Baby on Board" sticker waving at me as it blows by...
</done>
p.s. - Nissan, if you want to know how to fix anything else, just pm me... I'll have my people call your people.
Last edited by trebien; 10-30-2008 at 12:07 PM.
Ouch...
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