The reason I made that comparison is when I was in High School I had a car with three 12" subs and a friend had a car with five 8" subs. They were made by the same company (JL) and were the same series (W0's I think) the amps were different, but other than that we had the same setup (we both had ported enclosures). His just sounded "tighter" and more accurate, mine was much louder but boomier (if that's a word).

 

Hraes,

What you had there was a combination of both the woofers' dissimilaries (T/S Parameters) and the box tuning frequencies were likely different as well, creating a significant difference in the sound ... also you likely had some port noise/compression affecting your sound quality as well ... since three 12s will move about as much air as 12 8s of similar stroke

 

Gotcha, I had no idea the size and shape of the box could affect the output so much.

I actually got that two 12 inch speakers = 6.75, 8 inch speakers.

 

guess what, i think ur a fayg cuz u have a 10" sub in ur car. track style is da ****

pc

 

rule of thumb .... the next size woofer is ~two of the previous

not 100% accurate .. then again ... there are very few 8s with the same stroke as a similar 12

The box plays a GIGANTIC role in the actual sound of the speaker...something 90% of car audio consumer do not know ... as long as it looks good and costs a lot ... hell .. its gotta sound good, right

 

if your serious about the 15's put one in each rear corner. facing up and forward. you'll have to remove the spare and the styrofoam around it. if you can have it made as one common chamber sharing the space in the middle.

 

OK, Start your own company and turn away everyone that comes up to your shop that is playing rap, hip-hop and R&B and see how long you stay in business. You better sell a butt load of Tint and Alarms

See, I was building custom enclosures by the age 18(Divine Sounds) and was trained by Scott from Mad Marx in Bradenton, FL. (If you've never heard of him then your missing out). The only time we came close to making 8"er's drop was when we walled off a cavalier and mounted bout 12 of them in there. It sounded like 2-12's but it took 4x the money.

Hey brainiac, I had a Kicker zr240 pushing a square solo 12 in a bandpass ported through from the bed to the cab in my old SS-10(car before Z). What 8" set up do you recommend to produce the same sound quality or lack their of? Or how bout this, make a 12" EV sound like a 12"kicker comp, if you can then you da man!

Your argument has zero real world application! I suggest you put your books and calculator down and actually build a system!

As for home audio, I don't have a clue!

 

Did I say rap was good? Go to your local shop or Best Buy and listen to the music coming from the cars being pulled out of the install bays. That was my point.

 

I am not tring to run a car stereo business ... I did that awhile back in school and I'll admit that my main focus was on kids that wanted rap-oriented systems. I, however, am arguing that not all aftermarket buyers want that. There are a LOT of people that like other music, and like it loud.


It's about spl ... I claimed any size transducer can sound like any other of larger size given that it is operating pistonically and w/o distortion An 8 can go low .. given the right box, and if the transducer is deigned for that (truth is most are not). Glad to hear you walled some 8s .... that sounds like a good idea from the start



Did you just place the words Kicker square and sound quality in the same sentence ... well .... looks like you got a great idea about sound quality ... do you realize how much distortion that driver has in its suspension alone? The motor is decent, but that suspension is a linear-nightmare .....


Oh wow ...


This is obvious

 

[QUOTE=JimRHIT]I am not tring to run a car stereo business ... I did that awhile back in school and I'll admit that my main focus was on kids that wanted rap-oriented systems. I, however, am arguing that not all aftermarket buyers want that. There are a LOT of people that like other music, and like it loud.

So NimWHIT, i was right? I believe that 90% of subs are sold for SPL, hence the rap!

It's about spl ... I claimed any size transducer can sound like any other of larger size given that it is operating pistonically and w/o distortion An 8 can go low .. given the right box, and if the transducer is deigned for that (truth is most are not). Glad to hear you walled some 8s .... that sounds like a good idea from the start

Hey, we built what the customer wanted!



Did you just place the words Kicker square and sound quality in the same sentence ... well .... looks like you got a great idea about sound quality ... do you realize how much distortion that driver has in its suspension alone? The motor is decent, but that suspension is a linear-nightmare .....

I believe I said sound quality or lack there of!

I don't have clue? Nice cut a paste... punk!

 

Wait wait wait... Jim at what point did everyone stop getting mad at me and start on you? Damn... I was enjoying all the attention.

Though you're right there... box plays a huge role in the sound of a sub. But don't think 'cause I'm agreeing with you on that point that I'm going to recommend a 15" any time soon.

By the way... any one who puts "we built a wall of 8"s " in the same context with SQ is missing something. I might be a stubborn azzwhole, but that's just silly. I suggest you PICK UP your books and calculator before you start cutting wood. I've never built a box that didn't take a few hours of calculations (mainly 'cause I'm not great with math) before I even built a mockup. I don't know who Scott for Mad Marx is, but if he is good at building enclosures, and by good I mean they SOUND good first -- look good second, then go back and let him teach you some more.

P.S. Rap sucks. I hate it. But any installer can tell you it's not about what YOU like. That's why Kicker's still in buisness.

 

I don't know ... but I feel I have come to this battle of wits ready and armed ...

zfan has a few things to learn about sound reproduction ... I'll say this time and time again ... a box builder/car installer/audio hobbist has a LOT to learn about acoustics and transducers ... more than you can imagine.

zfan .. i suggest you pick up some books ... there are many great ones out there .. and read a little bit. Honestly .. it is really cool to know some reasons why things are the way they are ... and something scientific to back up that installers experience and knowlegde of what to do.... seriously ... learning all that was an awesome time for me.

 

Rap is not that bad ... I am a fan of some ... as well as some reggeaton, coutry and classic rock ... kinda diverse ... but I have lived all over this country and it all kinda got me.

zfan ... I can make any sub sound bad .. simply by putting it in a (most likely) poorly designed bandpass like you did ... I guess I simply missed the point of that remark..

 

a 15" would be overkill.

 

yep. I heart Fluid Dynamics. To me it's dry reading but unless it's a cut and dry cubic sealed enclosure with manufacturer's recommended volume you're probably gonna want to know something about it.

 

JimRHIT is right, any transducer can sound like any other size transducer. IT CAN, and nobody can say the opposite. It's just a matter of moving mass and electromechanical force.

The reality is that in the same subwoofer line, the response of each driver goes with is size, and usually, the larger you go the lower is the usable range. When people say that a 13W7 doesn't sound like a 8w7,they are right, because both are created to be used in a different range. The 13W7 won't be as able in the top-end because it's primary goal is low-end. It is meant to blend with larger, more powerful frontstage

But, not all large subs are meant to play only uber-low frequencies. The IDQ15, 16kv2, and ov2 are meant to play high, and will blend with the frontstage just as good many 10" subs simply because their usable range is higer in the band. Lowpassing them at 75hz isn't a problem, while many 12" subs can't even manage to be crossed that high and still sound good.

A 15" sub is very useful to replace a pair of 12" or even four 10", in term of efficiency, and the range where you want to use your sub will depend on your frontstage. The reality is that deep-bass sub sound bad because most fronstages can't go low enough, loud enough. A 4mm Xmax 6½ woofer just can't displace enough air to blend with a sub that is playing lower because with 100w rms you can push them into distortion as high as 125hz.

With dedicated midbass, such as ED eu-700, CDT EF-8, RE XXX 6", Adire extremis 6, and with the right power, a large, deep bass sub isn't even a problem. It will even sound better because of the single source factor

 

I am already liking this guy!


Good post Hypnoz ... looks of references and thoughts there I simply didn't feel like typing out ... Thanks for the support


Anyone else want to jump on the reality bandwagon with us?

 

See... this is a good point. And goes along with that I'm saying about trying to blend a 15.

 

I agree that a 15 is usually harder to blend ... as they are likely to be designed with low bass, ported boxes and Lil' Jon in mind ...

but there are 15s out there that'll blend just fine, just as easy as most 8s (that was my argument the whole time , that they exist ... they are just not common).

 

That's great, but did you finally learn why you are wrong?

There are 8" speakers that blend horribly, if your front stage is weak. They do exist. So do well-blending 15's, such as the ones I mentioned.