Notices
Audio Builds Audio projects and builds from my350z members

New SQ-oriented install coming soon, all components ordered!

Old 11-27-2007, 02:18 PM
  #61  
hoss4131
Registered User
 
hoss4131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Ge|atinousFury
The 2awg power wire will be ran down the drivers side under the carpet by the door sills. From there I'll have to take off the interior side panels and that will expose holes which allow the power wire to be routed straight into the glove box area.

The Ai-Net and optical cables will be routed down the center console which is a straight shot into that rear glove box/stock sub location area.
why not just run your power wire down the passenger side? seeing as how that is where the batt is, and that is where the best place to get your wire into the cabin is.
Old 11-27-2007, 02:49 PM
  #62  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Crap, I meant passenger's side when I made that post. Just corrected it......my bad
Old 11-27-2007, 02:50 PM
  #63  
hoss4131
Registered User
 
hoss4131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

haha, i was a little confused
Old 11-27-2007, 04:59 PM
  #64  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Update: The Alpine PXA-H701 processor arrived today and sure enough there isn't enough room on the amp rack for the H701 + it's wires to fit. It's fine though, just changes the component layout a bit...

The new layout will be the two alpine amps on the amp rack in the glove box, along with a 2nd rack in the stock sub compartment which will have the 2 Polk crossovers along with the H701 mounted to it. Now that I think about it this is probably good because it will give me room on the amp rack to do what I want with the wires/distribution block.

I believe the next steps are to get the driver's side rack mounted using the drop-down brackets that already exist in that compartment, and after that the Raamat + Ensolite of the doors and hatch (really not looking forward to that part lol).
Old 11-28-2007, 06:00 PM
  #65  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Today I got the rack for the processor and crossovers 95% done. The only thing left to do is screw down the H701 and then mount the crossovers (once I get them back from Bing...sent him the component set to help make the kicks....dunno why I didn't take them out first lol).

I also got a very nice big hole cut out in the stock subwoofer bracket so that the processor/crossover rack can fit in there with ease. I ordered some U-channel rubber trim from McMaster-Carr and applied that around the metal edges....more on that later. I didn't get pics of the cutout tonight but I'll post them soon enough.

For now, here's a pic of the almost-finished processor/crossover rack:


Old 12-01-2007, 02:32 PM
  #66  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I tackled the Raamat + Ensolite installation on both of the Z's doors today. I decided to go with the "lots of small pieces" method because I made it a goal not to cover any bolts or screws that technicians may need access to if the car is ever serviced. You can see that my skill level progressed a bit going from the driver side door to the passenger side door, but that's somewhat to be expected. I was pleasantly surprised with how easily the Raamat stuck to the door panels, rendering tools like a roller useless. The Ensolite went on fine too...very pleased with Raamaudio's products!

I went for a ride after applying Raamat + Ensolite to both doors and there is a noticeably higher midbass response since the deadening was applied, and noticeably lower road noise. I wish I could've gotten a frequency response graph from the interior of the car before and after the sound deadening because I bet there would be a nice little hump in the midbass region. Of course, the difference would have been more if I would've done the floor panels or the hatch....I plan on deadening the hatch area too but I ran out of daylight today.

Oh yeah, for all you eagle-eyes out there that after the looking at the driver's side pics are thinking "Man, that stuff on the very end of the door is gonna show when he puts the door panel back on"....well, you're right lol. I had to remove some from the very end of the door panel but that was no biggie....the stuff comes off more easily than I thought. Live and learn













Last edited by Ge|atinousFury; 12-01-2007 at 02:55 PM.
Old 12-01-2007, 02:54 PM
  #67  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Here are the pics of the stock subwoofer bracket cutout, as promised. I started out dremling this hole and after I saw that it would take me about 35,923 years to finish it I broke out the jigsaw with a fine toothed metal blade....about 10 minutes later and the hole was cut just fine. I used a metal file to file down any metal burrs and then applied some U-channel rubber trim that I ordered from McMaster-Carr. My processor/crossover rack pictured in a previous post fits perfectly in the cutout and I have plenty of room to get my hands in there and mount everything.


Old 12-01-2007, 06:21 PM
  #68  
ghost
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'll be starting an SQ build soon as well, using 3 sets of Hertz components and two Hertz 12's.
Old 12-02-2007, 02:23 PM
  #69  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I'm not really sure which location I should use to run the speaker wires....gonna need some help on this one.

1. The power wire will be run from the battery to the glove box by the passenger side's doorsill.

2. Ai-Net cable as well as optical cable will be run from the head unit to the glove box via the center console


Should I run the speaker wires from the glove box down each side of the car (by each side's doorsills) or should I run the speaker wires up the center console and then branch them out to each kick panel? I've read that speaker wires should not be ran near any power or signal cables but I don't think I have much of a choice here. I have to choose the lesser of two evils...I'm pretty sure routing the speaker wires down each side of the car would be the easiest method but that would put the passenger side speaker wires smack on top of the 2awg power wire.

Advice?
Old 12-02-2007, 03:13 PM
  #70  
cbr900son
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
 
cbr900son's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lafayette LA
Posts: 3,804
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

is there any negative side of running the speakers wires so far from the crossover?
Old 12-02-2007, 03:23 PM
  #71  
hoss4131
Registered User
 
hoss4131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Ge|atinousFury
I'm not really sure which location I should use to run the speaker wires....gonna need some help on this one.

1. The power wire will be run from the battery to the glove box by the passenger side's doorsill.

2. Ai-Net cable as well as optical cable will be run from the head unit to the glove box via the center console


Should I run the speaker wires from the glove box down each side of the car (by each side's doorsills) or should I run the speaker wires up the center console and then branch them out to each kick panel? I've read that speaker wires should not be ran near any power or signal cables but I don't think I have much of a choice here. I have to choose the lesser of two evils...I'm pretty sure routing the speaker wires down each side of the car would be the easiest method but that would put the passenger side speaker wires smack on top of the 2awg power wire.

Advice?
you really shouldnt have any problem running the speaker wires with the power wires. the signal wires are really the source of inducted noises. i just ran my speaker wires under the door sills.

and for the question directly above this post, no. other than it using more speaker wire (since you have to double the runs), there isnt a disadvantage to that
Old 12-02-2007, 04:30 PM
  #72  
ghost
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by cbr900son
is there any negative side of running the speakers wires so far from the crossover?
Not that i've seen in car audio magazine.
Old 12-02-2007, 04:32 PM
  #73  
ghost
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ATL
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Ge|atinousFury
I'm not really sure which location I should use to run the speaker wires....gonna need some help on this one.

1. The power wire will be run from the battery to the glove box by the passenger side's doorsill.

2. Ai-Net cable as well as optical cable will be run from the head unit to the glove box via the center console


Should I run the speaker wires from the glove box down each side of the car (by each side's doorsills) or should I run the speaker wires up the center console and then branch them out to each kick panel? I've read that speaker wires should not be ran near any power or signal cables but I don't think I have much of a choice here. I have to choose the lesser of two evils...I'm pretty sure routing the speaker wires down each side of the car would be the easiest method but that would put the passenger side speaker wires smack on top of the 2awg power wire.

Advice?
Run the speaker wires away from the power cables.

So, driver's side up the door sill, passenger side up the console.
Old 12-03-2007, 07:38 PM
  #74  
BlueBoxer
Registered User
iTrader: (13)
 
BlueBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Man, your install looks more ane more like mine everyday. lol I spend a good day crouching in my hatch and then pulling the doors off to put on two layers of Raammat and ensolite. However, I really love the improvements the deadening and pods made. Just be careful when you run the wires for your rears or to the sub in the hatch. I have one wire that I didn't secure very well and there is now a rattling that has me tempted to empty 6 magazines of .40 cal into it at times. I am still loving the Polks.
Old 12-04-2007, 02:43 AM
  #75  
hoss4131
Registered User
 
hoss4131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ghost
Run the speaker wires away from the power cables.
why? it wont make a difference at all with the speaker wires... just the signal wires.

why waste time and wire avoiding a problem that isnt there?
Old 12-04-2007, 04:57 AM
  #76  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I believe I've found some insightful info on the whole "what wires to isolate" issue...this was found on EliteCarAudio and was written by a technical editor of that site. There's some info on other subjects peppered throughout the post but the parts relevant to my question are easy enough to pick out.

as for electron flow and the car chassis, the car chassis is made of steel while power wire is usually made of copper. copper has lower resistance than steel does, but because of the amount of steel in a car's chassis/body, the car body usually has a lower resistance than a wire running from the trunk. using the car's chassis also has it's advantages as opposed to using a ground wire connected to the battery.

ALL the currents in the car pass through the battery post, so all the noise does too. if someone wants a high high concentration point, look no further. this is a terrible place to ground equipment from a noise standpoint, and since the chassis is so large and as suchlow resistance, it is sensible to use it. there is nore to it than that, however, and ground loops come into play here. if the potential difference of all the ground planes in the equipment is the same, then there will not be ground loops.

as for noise in the chassis, this one is a bit more complicated. the chassis is not perfectly uniform from an electrical standpoint because there are impurities in the metal, etc. this means that electrons find a path to run from wherever something is grounded to the power supply source (the Alt and battery posts), and we can't look at a chassis and tell where these paths are. there are high current concentration points and low current concentration points in the chassis and of course this is dependent on where the currents in the chassis flow. the above also determines high noise and low noise areas as well.

it is also true that running power and low level signal wire causes no noise in and of itself. it doesnt matter if they are running together because anywhere you put the wires you will be close to the chassis and as such close to noise. once again, separating wires makes no difference.

the noise issue arises usually when there is a "ground loop". a ground loop occurs when currents are given more than one path to ground and the potential difference between the two are non zero and there is enough noise present to be induced audibly into the system.

someone mentioned that the headunit should always be grounded in the harness. this usually doesnt matter but if there is noise in the system this is the second thing i change. the first is my amp/processor dristro block ground location. again, there is no way to know where there is going to be a concentration of noise in the car chassis without testing.

car audio systems these days are more often than not designed to lift the ground of the audio inputs away from the ground plane of the power wires. this helps to diminish the level of spurious noises being induced into the wires that are running down the car. at times we have noise even with all this fancy design and this is where experimentation comes in with grounding locations, etc.

winslow is correct on the shielding issue. as for dynamat, this makes no difference because its not connected at one end of the chassis(like a shield would be) and then left floating at the other end while trying to pass signals to your audio equipment .



all the issues above have been discussed numerous times on most forums and with a few conclusions:

running power wires and low level signal wires together will not have an effect on noise. there is no statistically reliable evidence to show that it does matter, but there is a lot of evidence available to show that it doesn't.

using shielded RCAs are usually a bad thing.

there is no need to run a separate ground wire from the trunk to the battery(simple math shows this to be true).

when noise is present in a system there is usually a ground loop involved.
Here's another post that pretty much says the same thing:

An older mechanic at my dad's shop once told me "since it takes a positive and negative connection to complete a circuit and the negative post of the battery is connected to the chassis making it part of the circuit no matter where you run the other wires they are always next to the power wire". Made sense to me so I just bundle 'em up and run them the easiest way possible in most cases.
A lot of that info sounds completely counterintuitive to me, but as I found out in school learning about physics and engineering a LOT of that material is counterintuitive as well...

The more and more I read everything comes back to having a REALLY good ground. I'm glad I upgraded the ground wires in the engine compartment and there is a very nice master ground lug (complete with star washer) that came in my amp wiring kit. Hopefully with those two items installed I'll be good in the ground quality department.

I'm probably spending more time on this than it's worth, but it's an interesting subject to me.

Last edited by Ge|atinousFury; 12-04-2007 at 05:20 AM.
Old 12-04-2007, 05:44 AM
  #77  
sirfatty
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
sirfatty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

nice post, i was just about to do some resarch about how to run my wires but look no further. where did u place ur grounds just wondering
Old 12-04-2007, 06:01 AM
  #78  
StreetOC192
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
 
StreetOC192's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Speaker wires can be run bundled with power wires, but isolate your rca's as much as possible.
Old 12-04-2007, 06:14 AM
  #79  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by StreetOC192
Speaker wires can be run bundled with power wires, but isolate your rca's as much as possible.
My RCA run length has increased a bit but even so it's just going to be a ~4ft run between the H701 processor in the stock sub location across to the amps in the glove box.

I guess the final wire layout will be:

1. AiNet + Optical cable up the center console to the stock sub compartment
2. 2awg power cable + passenger side speaker wires down passenger side door sill
3. Driver side speaker wires down driver's side doorsill
Old 12-04-2007, 06:16 AM
  #80  
Ge|atinousFury
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Ge|atinousFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by sirfatty
nice post, i was just about to do some resarch about how to run my wires but look no further. where did u place ur grounds just wondering
I haven't installed the master ground lug yet but when you are looking into the stock sub compartment I plan to place the ground lug on the left-side wall of that compartment (towards the center of the vehicle). If I remember correctly there are some pre-drilled holes there, one of which I hope is the right size for the ground lug. If there isn't one, I'll drill in that location.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: New SQ-oriented install coming soon, all components ordered!



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:37 PM.