The other day I stumbled uppon some information from Powerchip. Their chip for 350Z is claimed to increase the power to 220kW (from 206kW) and torque to 388Nm (from 363Nm). Those look like really big gains from nothing else but software tunning .... so does anyone have any experience with them and is there any truth to the claims?

ps. They want $1290 for the chip (well, not really the chip as it says they just reprogram the existing one). Also they claim that it can't void your warranty (which I find hard to believe as I would have thought that is the 1st thing to void your warranty).

 

They don't have the upgrade ready yet. I enquired a few weeks back. They offered to contact me when they are ready as they haven't done a 350Z yet and don't have any dyno's etc. I believe the extra 14kw claim is pure speculation.

They do offer a money back guarantee, so the way to tackle them, if they ever get it going, is to do a before and after dyno, and only pay when the results have been proven. The mod would be a good one for the price, if it were true.

 

They just lean the air/fuel and advance the timing...something that can be done with the XEDE piggyback on a dyno custom for your car. How safe it is is another question, re timing!

I don't think there is much to be gained from the ECU BUT Xede is a far better solution as you can easily remove it and it offers you 2 maps in memory.

http://www.xede.com.au/about.htm

 

That's a nice gain. Zuffy, I would worry too much re saftey of leaning and timing. The LS1 Edit program for Gen III holden V8's does exeactly the same thing and it delivers much bigger gains. I would assume however, that Nissan are as conservative as Holden in their engine tuning, so there would be a big saftey margin built in from the factory. On the other hand, if I had an S2000, I'd worry as those things are highly tuned from the factory AFAIK.

 

Thats at the flywheel. 14kw at the fly so minus the drive train loss for $1680 (Is that installed or just the chip?) But the real benefits come when you tune in your mods, although the 350z standard ecu is supposed to adjust itself anyways, just not as hardcore as an aftermarket would.

 

hi guys just got back from holiday

But anyway
Has anyone tried the Xede piggyback ecu? i know this has been discuss before but not sure anyone have tried.

 

Havnt had any experience with them but...

I've been emailing one of their guys about this chip, and reading about it on their site etc. Its like the technosquare reflash, they just upload it into the serial port. The site said they can increase your rev limiter a couple hundred rpm as well.

The guy said it can be tuned for a particular car setup when its getting installed, BUT then I asked if it could tune:

Air, Pulleys, Full Exhaust, Intake Manifold, and Cams (Nothing too complicated )

and his Boss came back and said that it can't tune that. Ive sent a reply as to why it can't , some guys in the US have those mods without a ecu upgrade(love the standard z ecu ), so if it can be done without it then why can't theirs do something more? What does it do then? Hopefully We'll find out.

Will update when he gets back to me.

Murray

 

My zed was the first to have the Xede ecu installed in it from chiptorque in QLD, that was last November during Indy car. It has been performing realy well. The car is still of the road at present as they have just approved the insurance to fix it after its crash.. hopefuly back in another 2 months.

waited 4 months for it, drove for 4 months, now of the road for 4 months. must have a thing with number 4...

 

Thats what turned me off the distributors of XEDE, they seem to have no idea.

I mean any piggyback ecu can tune the AF for those mods... The XEDE does a heap more than just AF...its a pretty good item if the tuner isn't a card jokey.

Which dealer did you ring if I may ask?

 

Sorry should have been more clear! I was referring to the PowerChip guys, and I was communicating with powerchip directly. Its not even released yet.

Unichip is bringing out a 350z piggyback soon. I had one on my celica which worked great. And they are reasonalbly priced. 1000 installed and tuned, but the 350z one will be more like ~1500 i think.

Motec have one out that works with our car as well, but that costs $3500 RRP!!! It can control your drive-by-wire system, CVTCS, and full data logging etc.

Murray

 

Unichip is bringing out a 350z piggyback soon. I had one on my celica which worked great. And they are reasonalbly priced. 1000 installed and tuned, but the 350z one will be more like ~1500 i think.

Motec have one out that works with our car as well, but that costs $3500 RRP!!! It can control your drive-by-wire system, CVTCS, and full data logging etc.

Murray [/B][/QUOTE]

Lets seperate some facts from fiction.
Powerchip do not have any product yet for the 350Z despite allready advertising increased power & tq.
Check out there add in the Feb 04 Motor magazine where they show a graph of a 996 turbo Porcshe with a before & after result.
Any body that knows anything about the relationship of HP & TQ knows that the graph lines of HP & TQ always cross at 5252 RPM
The graph is BS. How could you trust anyone that supplys a bodgie graph?
The Xzede, Perfect Power & Unichip are all piggyback units which modify the crank angle sensor to advance or retard the spark timing & the MAF sensor to adjust the AF ratio.
To the best of my knowlage none of these units do anything about the cam angle sensors. Only small gains will be made by these units.
The Motec unit as a stand alone unit would not allow the ABS or VDC to be used.
The Performance Nissan Grand Am race car is using this set up with a Motec dash. Nizpro in Melbourne used a Motec to run there twin turbo set up. Very costly &, Hr's & Hr's of dyno time.
BJ the driver of the Evo 350 Grand Am car has bee experimenting with an English Pectel unit. Again very expensive.

The key to getting big horspower from the VQ35DE motor in NA form is to get it to rev higher. But then you need better bottom end, different cams, different inlet manifold design & lasltly a different final drive ratio to make use of the extra revs

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nathan

Lets seperate some facts from fiction.
Powerchip do not have any product yet for the 350Z despite allready advertising increased power & tq.
Check out there add in the Feb 04 Motor magazine where they show a graph of a 996 turbo Porcshe with a before & after result.
Any body that knows anything about the relationship of HP & TQ knows that the graph lines of HP & TQ always cross at 5252 RPM
The graph is BS. How could you trust anyone that supplys a bodgie graph?

I know what your taking about here, i have seen this graph a few times. And I totally agree.


The Xzede, Perfect Power & Unichip are all piggyback units which modify the crank angle sensor to advance or retard the spark timing & the MAF sensor to adjust the AF ratio.
To the best of my knowlage none of these units do anything about the cam angle sensors. Only small gains will be made by these units.


Ok,(I know your aware of this) but the initial gains arent the only benefit, the ability to tune each of your mods as your get them is the real benefit. I hope the new Unichip will be able to change the cam angle sensor as well, though I wont hold my breath.


The Motec unit as a stand alone unit would not allow the ABS or VDC to be used.
The Performance Nissan Grand Am race car is using this set up with a Motec dash. Nizpro in Melbourne used a Motec to run there twin turbo set up. Very costly &, Hr's & Hr's of dyno time.
BJ the driver of the Evo 350 Grand Am car has bee experimenting with an English Pectel unit. Again very expensive.


The guys at motec say its a piggy back unit...

This is from one of the motec guys:

The MoTeC M800 is the ECU you would need for this job, it is capable of controlling both the variable cams and the Drive By Wire throttle. I know of one Australian car that has been done by Nizpro in Melbourne with the addition of two turbos. All aspects of the engines tune can be defined in the ECU by the user so, yes, RPM limits and such can be changed.

For a road car like the 350Z the installation will be a piggy back with the factory ECU this is because factory ECU's run a lot more than just the engine these days. The whole trick is to keep the factory ECU happy while allowing you to tune the engine via the MoTeC.
______

Murray

 

lol

It just takes one post from Peter to poop the party ...tehehehe

Thnx for the input, you're just confirming what we've seen from Technosquare and all the other ecus out there. No real gains except for better drivability.

 

[
The guys at motec say its a piggy back unit...

This is from one of the motec guys:

The MoTeC M800 is the ECU you would need for this job, it is capable of controlling both the variable cams and the Drive By Wire throttle. I know of one Australian car that has been done by Nizpro in Melbourne with the addition of two turbos. All aspects of the engines tune can be defined in the ECU by the user so, yes, RPM limits and such can be changed.

For a road car like the 350Z the installation will be a piggy back with the factory ECU this is because factory ECU's run a lot more than just the engine these days. The whole trick is to keep the factory ECU happy while allowing you to tune the engine via the MoTeC.
______

Murray [/B][/QUOTE]

I also have talked to Motec & yes it can be done.
But I dont have the $$$$ to pay for the Engine dyno time that is required. Nizpro put in over 15 hrs to do the TT.
When ever the vairiable inlet cam moves a new map is required.
On the main forum there is a post about the Xede unit.
60 dyno pulls to get 6HP (4.5kw) and shiv from Vishnu is a wll respected tuner.
Jacko got a bit more than that & it would be interesting to see if it is still there or has the ECU comensated.
I tried an Apexi S FAC for some dissapointing results.
The problem is the Z with 363NM is dam near as powerfull as all the exotics in the 4K to 5K range but because it has been built to a budget & is a general purpose motor used in everything from a Renault Vel Statis to a Pathfinder & was not designed to rev over 6600RPM.
Now give it a full bottom end and new induction system & it will blow away any of the exotics.

 

I think something that needs to be mentioned is that these piggyback units are tricking the main ECU into thinking it's seeing different outputs than it actually is. The piggybacks are actually rather limited in their functionality and so you're never going to see fantastic gains with them.

A proper aftermarket ECU (even if used in conjunction with the factory ECU) is far more capable as it can actually take full control of functions. It will always be the better option but as has been mentioned it costs. If you're serious about wanting power and future tuning skip the toys and look at a solution like this.

I'm actually a little surprised that Nizpro got it done in 15 hours. I spent 12 hours on the dyno tuning my MX-5 and it wasn't anything fancy.

Oh and Jacko got 12kw IIRC *but* that was with a full exhaust and XEDE.

 

The Boylan E46 BMW M3 that we race against in GTP has a Motec
M800 being used in conjunction with the factory ECU.
Despite many engine blow ups & mega $$ being spent they gave up on the Motec controlling the Vanos and have pegged the cams . OK for an 8500rpm motor but to much loss of mid range power on the Z.
The Paris Daker Nissans the Mc Rae & Vaartinen drove use the Pectel system & are using it to control the valve timing as they need the low & mid range Tq for the dunes as well as outright power. Cost of the ECU alone is 10,000 pounds

 

That's only about AUD$24,000 What's the hold up?

 

I smell a group buy!


lol

 

I believe the standard ecu which 'learns' should surfice for most the NA mods, then after some time hopefully there wil be a clear solution that is worth the extra money.

If I get 10kw at the wheels across the range(not just top), increase the rev limiter(not so I can rev uselessly, but should I go high reving route) and pay $1000-1600 i'll be happy with my money spent.

Nathan, when you say new induction, your talking forced induction?

Murray

 

You just ran into your first problem. None of these piggybacks (AFAIK) can alter the rev limiter.

BTW you're probably right in that the stock ECU will handle the extent of mods most people are going to do.