There was an ARDC 'sprint' meet at Eastern Creek last weekend. Motor jurno (and part time racer) Dean Evans was there with their 350Z Track 'long termer' and he managed a time of 1:54.9. That seems really impressive to me as I was under the impression that a well driven M3 can do 1:55s ... but I could be wrong as Eastern Creek is not local to me.

So hopefully we'll get to read about it in the next (or one after) issue of Motor ... I heard that he picked up a puncture there on one of the rear tyres, so it could make for an interesting read.

 

David, that's a real good time for a standard car.

When I used to go hard there (when I was a lot younger) on my bikes the average time I used to get would have been mid to high 1.40's and that was on pretty quick bikes (GSXR, TLR, R1).

So mid 1.50's isnt too shabby!

As always

H

 

That's not bad. Especially for a stock car.

The last time I was there in my stock Touring I think I was pulling 2:10-2:15 or so.

 

David, that's a real good time for a standard car.

Just for reference, the same driver (ie. Dean Evans) had the new GT3 and M3CSL at Eastern Ckeek about 5 months ago. The times he managed were 1:49.8 in the GT3 (on road tyres), and 1:48.0 in the M3CSL (on race tyres). That (IMHO) shows the 350Z time even in better light ... I'm very impressed.

 

The good thing about the creek is that it is a fast flowing track. There is really no stop/go corners. Turn 2 & the hairpin at 9 are the slowest so you're pretty much on the noise all the way round.

As always

H

 

The good thing about the creek is that it is a fast flowing track. There is really no stop/go corners.

I only know the layout from the TV coverage. Thugh, I've never figured out what kind of cars does Eastern Creek reward? Car's with good handling or good power? ie. Sandown rewards cars with good power, while Winton rewards good handling.

 

David, If I was to have a choice bewteen the two I would take outright power over handling. Keep in mind though all my experience at this track is on bikes.

Turn 1 - off the 1km long front straight - full noise in 5th.
Turn 2 - after a small straight it is a double apex hairpin.
Turn 3 - continuous radius (not tight) right hander - still going hard.
Turn 4- R hander - very bumpy on entry drift out wide for 5.
Turn 5 & 6 - little left and right flip flop - pretty bumpy - suspension works pretty hard between 4 and 6.
Turn 7 - pissy little rhander before going up to corp hill.
Turn 8 - Full noise blind left hand corner on the crest - pick your mark, point and shoot.
Turn 9 - R hand hairpin - pretty bumpy but not much to it.
Turn 10 - this is a little RH kink in the back straight - full noise again.
Turn 11 & 12 - double apex Lhander - still going pretty quick.

then onto the straight!

David, Im not sure if this helps?

Of all the bikes I have been there on I was quickest on the GSXR but I think that was because I was so much younger and more willing to go a bit harder.

As always

H

 

Sorry, double post

 

I've driven on Eastern Creek a couple of times, and its hard to say. Mind you, the people I was sharing the track with were also street car drivers, so we're not talking about a bunch who are going to set consistent times at the limits of the car.

Personally, I'd take a car with grip and grunt on the Creek. The tight corners, where you want a nimble car, are few and far between, and there are more flowing corners that a car with a wide track and lots of power can exploit.

The Z sometimes feels a little "big" around Wakefield Park, but it feels right at home on Eastern Creek. I'd love to take the Z out on Phillip Island, which by all accounts is a very open track that suits understeery cars with good tyre grip and lots of power.

 

David, Im not sure if this helps?

Yep, very helpfull so thanks. Generally speaking, the tracks with long straight are more suited to cars with power (of course). Now if you have a tight corner coming onto the straight(s) than the 'handling' of the car is not of much benefit, but the power is. On the other hand, if you need to carry a lot of speed through a (faster) corner because there is straight following, then 'handling' is what you need. Also if the track is tight and there are not many straights then 'handling' is what you're after again.

I'd love to take the Z out on Phillip Island, which by all accounts is a very open track that suits understeery cars with good tyre grip and lots of power.

hehe, that's because the average speed around there is around 150kph :-). So staying 'safe' is very important cosidering that most corners are over 120kph. Lats thing you want at PI is a car that can step out on you at those speeds.

I spun there once at around 140kph ... went around at least 6 times. No harm done, but scared the crap out of me.

 

Here's a circuit map of Eastern Creek.

As you can see, the bend out onto the main straight is relatively tight and more than 90 degrees. For me, its either a low-third or high-second gear turn (not quite redline in second, but there's the thought in your mind that holding second and having to shift so early on exit will be slower than using third).

The track is quite long (that main straight will be close to 1km, as they used to use half of it for drag racing), so those straights aren't short. I hit 200km/hr down the main straight in stock Touring trim, and even then I'm braking early.

The track was designed for MotoGP, so it is very smooth. As such, cars with fat tyres and stiff suspension can make great use of it without having to worry about getting upset over the bumps. You can make great use of power to get out of those corners, and in most cases you'll accelerate enough to get a gear change in each short straight.

Wakefield Park (circuit map) is a much tighter and more technical track. You have to know track craft to pull a good time here, no matter what you're driving. I'll hit 165km/hr down that straight in stock trim (as a comparison to EC's straight).

What is harder to see is that, from the left hand kink (before the two right handers) at the top of the track, all the way to that back straight, your car is under constant lateral load (and I'll be in 3rd gear, shifting to 4th about half way through that sweeping S bend). This plays hell on tyres, since you're looking at about half a lap where they're kept at the limit of adhesion.

This is a track where you need a car that either handles or grips well. Power doesn't mean too much (the last time I was there I was chasing down 200SX's that made 200rwkW's, and they were pulling away from me in the straight but I'd reel them in by that sweeping S and be camped on their butts until the main straight where we'd repeat) but having a car that handles with a driver that knows the line, will set better times.

Anyway, I'll have to find out when Phillip Island does track days, and make sure I arrange a holiday in Melbourne.

 

Scathing, when were you at Eastern Creek or Wakefiled last time?

Anyway, I'll have to find out when Phillip Island does track days, and make sure I arrange a holiday in Melbourne.

Most Phillip Island track days are run through PIARC (http://www.piarc.com.au/aa1/default6.htm), their site does not seem to be up to date at all, but there's a track-day there at least once a month with one club or the other.

 

Last time at Eastern Creek: 2004-06-27
Last time at Wakefield Park: 2004-07-06

Next Time at Eastern Creek: (whenever the next track day is on)
Next Time at Wakefield Park: 2004-09-06



When I can find the time (probably when my 18" tyres are nearing end-of-life) I'll have to make a trip down to Melbourne, do Great Ocean Road again, and then do Phillip Island, before heading home.

 

Last time at Eastern Creek: 2004-06-27 Last time at Wakefield Park: 2004-07-06

What times did you manage around both tracks?

 

I only timed myself on one lap at Wakefield (and this was with the HiTech cat-back, but on heavily-worn tyres) was 1:15.xxx.

The run at Eastern Creek was with the stock Exhaust, and the same tyres (with slightly less wear, obviously) and I didn't time myself. I think I was around 2:12 or so, but its hard to say.

 

but on heavily-worn tyres

Road tyres often produce better lap-times when they are heavily worn. Thread is only needed for standing watter, and on the track it flexes too much to produce consistent grip. Though, that's pressuming that the tyre compound retains it's grip as it wears down ... I know that the S02s did so, but no idea about RE040s.

What tyres have you got on now (and hence taking to the track next time)?

 

I came to the same conclusion you did. The lower tread meant less heating up of the tread blocks, and less squirm, which may explain why the tyres felt better last time than previously.

I noticed that the RE040's seem to go off after one hot cycle though. With my Touring tyres, the first time I took them out onto Wakefield I ripped them up, and after that they were never the same.

I've got a set of RE040's on a set of Track rims (that I got on the cheap). When these tyres run out, I'll be selling the rims since I prefer 17" for ride comfort, as well as having more flexibility in choosing semi-slicks. I'm pretty much sold on the Advan A048's at the moment.

Unless its raining on Monday, though, the RE040's from the Touring rims will go on again. There's still some tread on them. While they're probably not legal at the sidewalls, there's still some meat on the main part of the tyre that I plan on getting rid of.

I plan on destroying them utterly at Wakefield, putting the Track rims back on when I get home, and then waiting until my 18" RE040's die before buying the Advans (or maybe D01J's) for the Touring rims (or, if I can afford it, getting a set of Gram Lights 57Pro's in 17x8, 17x9).

 

before buying the Advans (or maybe D01J's) for the Touring rims

Both very good tyres ... can't go wrong with either. Eaither one of those tyres should buy you good 2sec per lap at a track like Wakefield. And more like 3sec at Eastern Creek.

Unless its raining on Monday, though, the RE040's from the Touring rims will go on again.

Cool, let us know how you went as I'm always interested to hear about things like that. If you'll you get a chance, see if you can get someone to notcie what speed you're pulling on the main straight.

 

I always know what speed I'm doing down the main straight (but then I tend to brake early), if you're willing to accept what's on the digital speedo. I usually drive with the windows down, so that adds a little aerodynamic drag.

I'm usually between 160-170km/hr down the main straight of Wakefield. I think I hit 170km/hr with the HiTech on.

Iif you look at the pic I linked, I have to lift at the little "kink" because I know the line, nor do I have the confidence, to match some of my friends who will do it flat.

Down Eastern Creek, in stock trim and the windows down, I'll hit 197km/hr down the main straight. This is, once again, braking early. I could probably hit 200km/hr, but either have to punish the brakes harder (which I don't like doing on the Touring) or entering Turn 1 on the edge of grip.

Turn 1 isn't worth coming off on, as there is a fair drop into a gravel trap, and if it doesn't remove your front bumper I have seen a couple of SuperSprint cars roll in that area.

When I closed the windows and folded the mirrors in, I hit 202km/hr at approximately the same braking point (maybe a bit later, since I wanted to top 200km/hr and I was willing to make a one-time-only greater demand on the brakes).

With the HiTech and Popcharger on, I'll be sure to time myself more on Monday and get you a top speed.

 

I'm usually between 160-170km/hr down the main straight of Wakefield. I think I hit 170km/hr with the HiTech on.

That's pretty much line ball with what Motor published in last years BFYB from Wakefield. I think they managed 171kph (on a radar gun) ... that's probably ~175kph on the speedo. Though, they clocked 1:11.9 with the Zed and so I suppose are braking a lot later.

If you look at the pic I linked, I have to lift at the little "kink" because I know the line, nor do I have the confidence, to match some of my friends who will do it flat.

From what I gather, it can be taken flat out in any/all cars (no matter how quick). Still, you have to have confidence in doing so ... no point pushing beyond your comfort levels.

You might like to read the following 'guide' for Wakefield. It was written by Michael Taylor from Motor and he said that he can get most of the car bellow 1:15 around there. It's a pretty nice read:

"The kink's flat in every road car (even Audi RS6, M3 CSL, GTS etc), so don't be afraid to rip into it. When you brake into t1, don't worry too much about straightening the car too literally to align with the track edge trajectory. too many people do this. Instead, take the straight line from the kink apex to the outer edge of the track (where your turn-in point will be) and brake in that line.

The apex of t1 is actually a bit later than most people use, and if you get that right, you can carry quite a bit of speed, and get on the power early to get a good run up the hill. you may have to use a bit of throttle control here immediately post apex.

from there, it'll depend on what you're driving. Most road-reg cars are flat through the left hander (don't be scared of the kerb - even though it looks high, the inside wheels are unladen and it's generally the thing to hit) with a dab-n-maybe-downshift into t3 at the top of the hill. in some cars, it's better to use torque in a tallish gear across here, but RX-8's don't actually have torque, and i can't remember what we used. you can carry more speed through here than you initially think, because you never really quite get straight before you dive down the hill. Until you've run off on the (safe) gravel at least once, you can probably rest assured that you haven't carried enough speed here.
t3 also has a good kerb to clip (provided you have shocks in reasonable condition and decent rubber).

Be patient on t4 (coming off the hill), because it's very easy to get caught out as the road falls away, then miss your apex, which should be a firm clout right on top of, or even completely over the kerb, if you can tuck it in there.

That'll let you stand on it early without gathering too much understeer on the exit. if you do that, you'll have to lift or run off into the dirt just past the hillclimb turn-off, when you'll have to lift anyway. If it's flat in an M3 CSL through the t5 fast right hander, it'll be flat in an RX8 (going from mazda memory here...). Again, good kerb, especially if you want to climb on it early and work a giggly drift all the way through the corner... that's not so good for your speed, but it's almost as much fun as doing it the proper way...

the approach to the tight left hander is similar to t1, really. don't be too literal with the road edge. the line runs from the inside left to roughly where the road junction is on the right hand edge (which marks your turn-in point). Brake as straight as you can there (a little earlier than it looks like you should brake, too), and, again, it's a later apex than it seems like it should be.

Get it too early and you'll run wide. brake too late and you'll run wide, too, but going backwards... especially in an RX-8 with all the gizmos switched off (which you need to do if you want a lap time). RX-8s have good diffs and a linear delivery, so you should be able to stand on it pretty hard out of there.

don't feel you need to commit to the inside ripple strip on the next, more open left hander. some cars (usually heavier gruntier rear-drivers) work better taking the first part of the left hander a little wider than others then, on the same lock, come back to get the second part. Others have the agility to get both. Doesn't much matter, as long as you get into the right road position for the right hander onto the back straight and let it flow, giving yourself the widest possible corner.

Getting down under, say, mid-13s to 14s, on road rubber will usually mean the thing's carrying enough pace to need either a slight lift or, at worst, a brake brush. this'll just get some weight back over the front axle to give it initial bite, then you need to stand on it, hard, and be prepared to do some wheelwork over the bumpier, post-kerb part of the exit. also, the exit's wider than the entrance, and the run-off's pretty good, so don't be frightened to give it the berries on the exit. there's plenty of road there, and the exit kerb's OK.

Keep it pinned, natch, down the shute, and you can brake pretty late, but be careful of the bumps on the approach to the last turn. If you're on your own, sacrifice a little bit of braking potential to maximise your corner exit onto the main straight.

Come off the brake a bit, deep into the braking, to give yourself some front spring travel back, then track around the outside of the track edge, until you've roughly got the turn-in-point, apex and ripple strip all lined up. then point and squirt, keep changing gears and bob's your uncle. A lot of cars are, surprisingly, quicker up the shute if they're left a gear taller (EVO, any V8 etc). wouldn't guarantee that with a rotary, though...

Also, depending on how many laps you're running at a time and what pads/fluid you've got, you might want to brake a little easier into the last turn to keep a bit of pedal under you for the faster t1... just a thought."

Down Eastern Creek, I'll hit 197km/hr down the main straight.

That's probably pretty quick as well. As I mentioned before, I can only go by what I red about these tracks as they are not local to me. Still, one of the local mags had a GT3 vs M3 CSL comparo recently and they went to Easternk Creek with the cars ... it was a pretty cool read as they published the track-map with speeds at verious points for both cars. The M3 CSL clocked 237kph and the GT3 241kph in the straight (and that's radar speed). They were both doing times just bellow 1:50.