just want to start t a discussion about camber and toe setup.
most ppl on this forum track their car are running non-staggered setup(ie 255front and rear).But i belive a neutral handling can be achieved via staggered setup in this car.
i dont like the idea of non-staggered because the fat tire up front decreases the car's resonse.
anyway, here's my question.
who is running same or similar setup as me? which is 245/40/18 and 265/35/18.
whats your toe and camber spec for both front and rear?

 

oh, and please mentin what kind of tires your running with your setup.
i'm ruing AD07 for now, after this set it done, going to change to A048.

 

GYZ, you should run 2-3/16" toe-out in front and about 2-3/16" toe-in on the rear. For Camber go with about -2Deg Front/Rear. Do you have adjustable swaybars? If so you may need to also play with the settings to dial the understeer out, softer in front and stiffer in the rear.

On a side note, my car is back at SpeedWare (the paint is done) and they are assembling the interior as I type this. On Monday we will start on the Suspension, hopefully the car will be done within the next week....!

 

i was thinking about have a more aggresive camber up in the front then rear.
do you know whats the max toe in/out i can get out of stock ?
PS i might go down to speedware with my friend to check out the seat either in beginning of march or end of this month!
i'll let you know if i'm going down, hope to see your car

 

oh, and wouldnt playing with camber be easier to eliminate the understeer nature of z? i mean toe spec doesnt influence contact patch as much as camber ..it only effect the direction of the power going...no?

 

are we talking an autoX set-up, or a track set up?

That would make a big difference IMO

 

sorry i didn't specify it, its for track(road course) setup.

 

I think you'll find the roll-bar adjustment more effective that the camber adjustment for push on the track... keep in mind that the more negative camber you have, the less straight-line grip you have... i.e. BRAKING grip.

All things being equal, a heavy sway bar with TONS of negative camber is asking for push, especially on street tires or cold slicks. The tires don't have as much time to 'settle' into the force change (turn) before the suspension stops moving. When the suspension stops, the only thing left to compensate for the direction change is the tire grip, and you're already working at a dissadvantage with a smaller contact patch while braking and turning in.

Don't get me wrong, negative camber is mostly a good thing, but I think theres a point where you can have too much.

 

hm, good point, really doesnt think about decreasing brake grip with -tve camber.


though with toe adjustment, i'll have to have toe in in the rear to dial out the understeer.but it'll aslo decrease my acceleration by pushing the car outward when i'm accelerating out the conner.
what you guys think?

 

also, how do you know when toe in/out is too much?

 

Frankly - I think you're trying too hard to correct something mechanically that can be corrected by technique.

Certainly adjusting suspension is one way to do it, but until you've tried everything else, chances are you're wasting valuable time and money.

Maybe you're already driving the car to its fullest potential - I don't know - but coming from an HPDE background, the first thing taught is to learn your car as it is first before spending a bunch of time, effort, and money adding things that will just take MORE time, effort, and money to adjust your driving to. It's all just guess work until you actually get it on track and plug the changes into your driving style.

Push and Oversteer can be caused by many factors that have nothing to do with the car itslef.

If you're already a pro driver, and have tried all these things, please accept my apologies, but if not, go to as many HPDEs as you can, find out who the best instructors are and seek them out. You'll be amazed how quickly that push goes away with out even touching a wrench... just be sure to put the toe back to factory specs before going out there.

 

I think you'll find that the reason most people run the same sizr front and rear is both cost and the ability to rotate the tires, not because it's an ideal setup.
Personally, I run a 275/17 rear, 245/17 front.

 

i'm not a pro drive, but on the other hand, i've attend lots of HPDE for around 2 years already.
not like the car understeer like crazy now. it only happens when i try to throttle steering the car, which is pretty annoy i think.
anyway, the point of this thread is not about my car, but want to have a discussion about the setting ppl have on they're car.
thanks a lot for the advice, mind share with us whats your camber and toes spec on your car? advantage and disadvantage with this setup?


PS. anyone know whats the max toe i can get out of stock ? and how much is too much?
thanks againl

 

Fair enough... I wish I knew!

I drive a '71 240Z on track, the rear toe is non adjustable, the front toe is directly related to how worn the steering rack is. I know I've got some toe-out on the fronts, cause I've got feathering on the inside. This is done on purpose to keep the front a little more stable at high speeds. The only time I push is if I've come in way too hot, and tried to steer through it before the front tires have had a chance to gather themselves after all the hard braking. I think the rear is relatively flat, but in a car this old, who knows. I don't have the gearing for power oversteer, but a slight throttle lift at the right time produces just the right amount of rotation.

 

Don't forget your running a non oem suspension that transfered a lot of roll stiffness to the front, 47% to be exact.


Zeal function V6 coilover
Spring rates 560/448
Stiffer then oem by F+78% R+31%
Transfers +47% roll stiffness to front

 

damn, 240z is CLASSIC men!!!

 

i know, did the calculation myself b4 the purchase of the zeal.
though the understeer is really not that bad, as i mentioned above, only appears if i'm trying to throtle steer through the conner.however, i think i'd revalve the rear with spring rate of 13 when winter time comes, and go from there.

thanks for the reminder though.

 

Ian, go with the alignment specs that I listed previously. The front toe spec will give you sharper turn-in while the rear toe spec will give good stability under heavy braking. 2 Degrees Camber is good enough to keep the tire from rolling over when cornering, but not so much that you loose grip under braking.

On a side note, my car is getting close to being finished. Let me know if you come down to SpeedWare, I will meet you out there.

 

ALong - please clarify your numbers from above... did you mean inches, or should it be degrees? 2+ INCHES of toe in or out seems extreme and really bad for the life of the tires

 

Stack
2/16" or 3/16" of an Inch. If you are driving the car on the track tire life is not a major concern....

If you want the car to handle, the toe will need to be adjusted beyond what a street driven car would use.