Robert_Nashvill

Hello, all.

I am considering a harness bar and harness to use in Solo2.

First, I'm wondering how you all feel about a harness bar in general...i.e, is it worth the investment (will it make staying in the seat easire enough to be worth the money)?

Second, I'm aware of the "hardbar" and while I like the idea of no interior modifications, it does seem a bit pricy. So I'm wondering if anyone has any specific suggestions of alternatives and also, a compatible harness for whatever bar/set-up they recommend.

I prefer a set-up that does not require modification of the interior, or at least, very little modificatoin as I don't especially want to tear up the interior of my car!

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

SinCity350Z

iTrader: (19)

If you are just looking to stay in the seat better, then I would suggest a CG-Lock. I think its around $40 and it attatches to your origional seatbelt. Basically you can pull the lap belt as tight as you want and it will stay that way. I use it for Solo II and track days and I love it. www.cg-lock.com

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

There are several threads discussing the applicability of harness bars. Many are for, many are against. Most just say get a rollbar. But those of us who still drive on the street, I think the rollbar presents a danger without a helmet. I think the harness bar is a great solution for autox, because there is so little chance of roll over.

Have you checked out the BCR Harness Bar? Its custom made for our Z's by a member of this board.

http://www.bcrltd.net/

SinCity350Z

iTrader: (19)

Good product, but that price is rediculous in my opinion. It provides no added safety and costs more than Kirk Racing's 4 Point Roll Bar.

benzz280

iTrader: (2)

I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. Like zillinois said, some ppl still daily drive their car and do not do hardcore racing, only ocassional HPDEs on weekends. In this case, the BCR harness bar is definitely the one to go with cos it looks very nice and subtle installed, doesnt take up space. very little interior modifications needed and very suitable for a daily driven car. IMO, go for full cage roll bar if the car is setup for track purposes only and it makes sense this way. Roll bar for street use is definitely too much.

SinCity350Z

iTrader: (19)

I say that you should go for a roll bar regardless how much you track the car. It only takes one time...

FritzMan

Putting a rollcage in a purpose built race car makes sense. But don't forget that they always run these things with helmets, don't have the airbags wired up, are using proper racings seats, have already stiffened the chassis offsetting many of the factory's engineered crush zones, and are using a *full* cage.

However, installing a 4 point rollbar into a street car will not guarantee you much over a harness bar (and it could pose safety issues on the street when a helmet is not in use). The rollbar is placed where the strongest portion of the roof is already located, the B pillar bulkhead (and how many of those have you seen pancake-flat?). The Avalon harness bar actually reinforces that B pillar making it even stronger. A harness bar is also lighter, less installation issues, and uses the factory restrain mounting points, quite possibly making better use of the chassis and airbag designs.

Personally, I think a harness bar is completely safe when used with a Schroth DOT approved harness which allows the torso to rotate forward (to prevent submarining) during a heavy impact.

If roll over protection is a real paranoia, I think you're better off to invest in a HANS device first. A Formula Ford driver was killed last year when his car flipped, snapping his neck *before* it landed upside down.

Robert_Nashvill

I really do appreciate the recommentations.

All due respect to those who advocate a full cage...I understand the safety aspect but this is a street car competing in a stock class...although a cage is allowed in "stock", I really am not interested in rendering the car less useful (and much less comfortable) for the 90% of what's it's used for; not the mention the impact it would have on the value of the car.

I also have to think of my basset hound, Millie, who is often my passenger for "non-competition" events...I don't want her bouncing around and hitting her head on a roll-bar (and they don't make helmets for hounds, at least none that I've seen)!

Sounds like the hardbar, despite the cost, may be the best bet although I'm going to look at the other bar mentioned above (designed by a forum member).

Any other suggestions are still welcome!!!

mofoz

iTrader: (1)

I also have to recommend the BCR Harness Bar. For autocross it makes a world of difference. But for daily driving, you truely do not know its there. The bar does have to meet some requirements, and because of that there are 2 posts that are directly behind the drivers and passengers seat to stabilize the harness bar. The avalon bar does not have these, and also does not allow for full seat travel, something that i needed. This is a pic of the posts
I cannot recommend this enough. The build quality is top knotch, and the powdercoating is perfect.

tomzz

Always lots of flavors on the roll bar vs belt bar issue. There is roll bar padding from JC Whitney that offers about the same crash cushion as the car headliner. As suggested, you need to decide based on YOUR requirements. I chose the Kirk roll bar -it sits just north of you on KY Lake due to my lack of B pillar faith in all driving conditions and my sometimes HPDE use of the Z. It is my understanding that SCCA will go to the HANS next year for its RACE classes as a requirement. Maybe have to trade in the Sparco collar for a HanZ Device?

SinCity350Z

iTrader: (19)

I was thinking about the Kirk as well. How is the fitment with the padding? Does the passenger seat travel get drastically affected? Sorry for going semi off topic.

tomzz

The fitment of the Kirk 4 point roll bar is fine by my standards. A number of BMW and PCA Club track instructors have commented on how it fits so well and would be easy to take out. Doug Crawford of CrawfordZ in Nashville took a look at it recently and really liked how it fit in and was not very noticable. He has had lots of roll bars and cages on Z's and likes the Kirk. The verticle post does reduce seat travel about 1 inch. Doug Crawford inspected my fitment and suggested that I could take the outer plastic piece off the seat hinge, sculpt out a small groove (would not be noticable he believes) to allow the seat 100% travel for the Kirk roll bar. The JC Whitney foam roll bar padding comes with a black naugahyde lace on cover that dresses up the bar and padding for a pretty tidy look. The cross bar of course is set at the correct hieght for my Ultra Shield 6 pt harness set-up. But I think a roll bar for a regular street car is also an esthetic decision as to your comforts with the "Rollbar look" in your Z. I happen to like the "roll bar look". There are also honest differences of opinion as to roll bar attachment locations for the Z, and if it adds any rigidity for the added weight. Good luck.

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

Does the Kirk have a crossbrace for a harness?

SinCity350Z

iTrader: (19)

I think I am going to go for the Kirk with the padding then. Thanks for the help tomzz. Do you happen to have a link to where I can find the JC Whitney padding?

tomzz

JC Whitney?? www.jcwhitney.com

check out roll bar pad kits in search mode They have a couple of pad kits

Does Kirk bar have harness bar?

Yes the Kirk Roll bar has a horizontal bar at the perfect position for harness install

send me your E mail address and I can send you roll bar/ w pad pic

I am at tdchristen@wk.net

stijed

Let me be the first to say I think the BCR Harness bar looks like a child's toy, and I'd never trust a harness attached to it... This is not meant to be insulting to whoever the forum member is who sells them, but I'd only trust this sort of safety device to someone who's an expert in this field (ie a professional cage fabricator)..

Personally I love my harness bar -- I'd see if you can find a local cage fabricator to build you a harness bar out of DOM rollcage steel.. Like Piper Motorsports built for my STi

zillinois

iTrader: (6)

That harness bar looks like it would be uncomfortable and dangerous for passengers. And it looks like a shower hand rail. Thats perfect for an STI though, cause its a tub. Oh yeah, btw, nice first post.

EnthuZ

iTrader: (2)

Looks like Piper has another happy customer. I wouldn't maintain that happiness being turned away from a PCA event for having a bar without hoops to prevent the harness from moving sideways.

"rollcage steel"? Must be an East Coast thing.

Lastly, I am a friend of the fabricator. He has built tube frame Grand Am cars, so, he is qualified.

stijed

(not sure which one...)

Aw thanks, I've lurked for a while, and didn't realize that I had never actually posted.. <sniffle> my cherry!!

but i digress.. no one is safely sitting in my backseat.. anyone with a 4 seater who wants a harness bar/rollbar should have accepted this long before installing it... I bought the STi because it's an amazing performer (tub, riiiight..) and is great in New England winters.. who needs back seats? I don't sit back there!

also sorry it doesn't meet your tastes.. to me it's function not bling..

I've never run with PCA but normally when the harnesses actually runs through the seat back (like in the STi's seats) that's not a problem.. If it ends up being a problem I'll have him weld some on, but no group has turned me away yet...

didn't mean to infer "rollcage steel" was a type of steel more that it was DOM steel that meets the specs for cage fabrication for my vehicle weight..

Why did your first couple fabricators back out again / why is your current one anonymous?

don't you think in purchasing a device that is literally holding people into their car (in high speed situations) people should be able to evaluate the quality and reputation of the manufacturer?

btw - NASA's Club Code & Regs (CCR)
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

clipped out below is the section regarding rollcage standards.. (which your tubing does not meet)

--------
15.6.18 Roll Cage Tubing Sizes
For the purposes of determining roll bar tubing sizes, vehicle weight is as raced, but without fuel and driver. Note: There is an allowance of minus 0.010 inches on all tubing thicknesses. Minimum tubing size for the roll cage is:

Up to 1500 lbs.
1.375” x 0.095” DOM/Alloy/Seamless

1501 - 2200 lbs.
1.500” x 0.095” DOM/Alloy/Seamless
(No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages being certified after April 30th, 2003)

2201 - 3000 lbs.
1.500” x 0.120” DOM/Alloy/Seamless
1.750” x 0.095” DOM/Alloy/Seamless
(No issuance of log books for cars with ERW cages being certified after April 30th, 2003)

3001 - 4000 lbs.
1.750” x .120” DOM/Alloy/Seamless.
No ERW allowed.
---------

EnthuZ

iTrader: (2)

1st, let me say that a harness bar is NOT a roll cage. So using roll cage diameter requirements is not a valid point. After reading the NASA "Racing" Regs, I see no mention of harness bar requirements at all. I could have used .090" wall SAE 1020 "Drawn Over Mandrel" seamless tubing, but I chose to increase it to .125". Speaking of NASA, I ran 2 of their events at Mid-Ohio last year, and none of the HPDE cars were ever teched. Self tech? I sure didn't feel too safe running with un-checked vehicles on the track.

As to why the other builders I approached backed out, they chose not to subject their business's to the potential liability issues. Building a series of harness bars runs different risks than building one-off bars. I also chose not to subject my current fabricator to those risks.

My bar has been subjected to inspection by the chief of tech for the Chicago PCA, and it passed with flying colors, along with my 6 point harness installation, which also meets SCCA regulation 20-6.

Thank you for calling me a child! I'll be playing with my toy tomorrow with the PCA at Blackhawk Farms!