Well I've been keeping track of the results so far at the nationals, and wow! Those darn RX-8's are whoopin up, I believe they have the top 9 spots in B-stock as of thur night. I know that car is 200lbs lighter, yet we have so much more torque and hp, so why are we getting beat up on? I had this same thing happen at the pro solo's in toledo. Everytime I would catch up to their times they would pull further away. Is their suspension that much better?

Also another question, I don't see any 350z's in the BSP. Yet the the BS times are faster, and was wondering if the 350z would be commetitive in that class, or was it the changes from wed to thur in track conditions?


I would like to say Nice job to Christoc who has the fastest 350z time so far, looks like the secret weapon is working!

Good luck guys!

doboy

 

It's called rain.

 

Bummer, well hope the sun shines for you all tomorrow. Good luck and kick some RX8 ***!!

 

don't undermind the rx8s! i think an rx8 driver will take 1st.. but that's a bit of a hindsight bias.

after driving one, they transition a bit better than a 350 and they are also a bit more narrow.

 

Andy woulda been up there in 3rd but had cones on his fastest run. Carter had cones as well, I had to get a clean run on my third and had what I would consider a pretty sloppy run in doing so, but it was clean.

Today will be a good determination of things, should be dry for all the runs, hopefully, yesterday was a rabidly drying course so third runs got faster and faster.

 

For the record, there's a Porsche 968 in 5th place, and I expect it to move up.

Even if an RX-8 triumphs this week -- and I agree it looks likely -- it's way too early to be giving up on the other cars in the class, if for no other reason that they're already getting huge heads on the RX-8 forum:

Steve

 

The cars are pretty evenly matched,but I still think the RX* is a little faster overall. Everyone I've talked to said the course really favored speed maintenance and the RX8 yesterday and todays course was more technical and torque would be a bigger factor so we'll see.

 

I keep checking, yet they haven't posted the BS results on the SCCA web site, does anyone have the results?

thanks
doboy

 

1st: Isley, RX-8
2nd: Goeke, RX-8 (about a half second back)
3rd: Bauer, 968 (a few hundredths back)

Carter moved up on the second day; I'm not sure if he made it into the trophies, though. Andy Hohl turned raw times that would have put him in contention, but coned his fast run Thursday.

Steve

 

I'm going to have to go back next year and show all of you Z drivers how to drive!

I'm not taking ANYTHING away from Jason, Joe, or Ron, but the rain did have an effect on results. It's kind of hard getting all of the power to the ground when you can't get on the throttle. After hearing all of the talk about how "underpowered" the Miata is, I had problems with wheelspin even on the drying course on Tuesday.

 

I think I woulda had a trophy if Glenn hadn't chickened out and run a Miata :P

 

More BS class fodder wanted, eh? (or so you think)

On Tuesday, I really was wondering if I made the right choice, given I was jumping into a car that I've never driven, on 710s, on a very wet course. I really was questioning my sanity. I now have driven a Miata for more runs (6) than I've ridden in one (maybe 3).

I would have rather run the Z, even though I didn't have any wet tires beyond the street tires I drove there on.

 

It wasn't obvious to me why the Z isn't as fast as the RX8 until Nationals.. after running Friday in the dry, these issues became very apparent:

1. LSD is terrible. Yeah, captain obvious speaking here.. but it was so much worse at Topeka than I've felt anywhere else. On the grippy concrete, the inside rear was almost lifting off which was making it virtually impossible to put power down. I don't care if it has 2x, 3x or 500ft.lb of torque over the RX8.. it was nearly impossible to put any of it down. I hit the rev-limiter once at 40mph with wheelspin. Yeah you can feather it, but you're still lifting which means losing time.

2. Brakes.. funny, I was talking to chris on Wednesday saying how I'e only had ICE mode 1-2 times in the last 18 months of running the Z. On Friday in the dry I was getting ICE mode every run, once I got it *three* times in a single run. You have to drive so hard on that concrete in order to be fast, which means hard in the brakes, diving into turns etc.. I could almost induce ICE mode whenever I felt like it, it was predictable.

Those were just the two big issues I noticed.. there are smaller things like the RX8 transitions quicker etc. My front tires were wasted after the 2nd run as well, which didn't help the understeer.. run a huge bar to keep the car flat so youc an put power down, then the car pushes. oh well. Some of those RX8s looked like they had a good 1.5-2deg of camber in the front.. maybe it was just me.

Overall it was fun, but frustrating. I blew my fastest run on Thursday (track was half wet, half dry), but had one "good" run on Friday that was still off Carter and Chris, and of course way off the top RX8 guys. Chris 10th, Carter 12th, me 16th.. best I can remember.

Gotta give the RX8 guys credit, but I don't know if "dynasty" is the best term.. I mean please, of 36 cars, I think there were what, like 8-9 350Zs? Two M3s, a Z3, 968 and the rest were Mazdas. Not to mention there are some real players running and developing the RX8.. Carter and Chris are the only ones taking the Z seriously.. not to mention the tire sizes aren't ideal for the 18" wheel Zs.. million factors as usual.

Either way the RX8s were fast, but there were some damn good drivers running them as well. Isley's a player, not some local driver who won by accident.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa -- we got beat by the RX-8s fair and square. Your time would be more productively spent working on setup for next year than incorrectly conjecturing about the RX-8's characteristics.

That's great, but Friday was completely dry, yet the fastest two South Course times were both set by RX-8s (maybe more than the fastest two, but that's all I remember, and the results still haven't been posted).

It was just you. Stock RX-8s can generally only manage 1.2 - 1.3 degrees of negative camber in front.

I don't think this week proved anything other than the RX-8's a good car for the class. I'm going to keep developing my 968, and I hope people keep developing the 350Z as well. As for the laundry list of complaints above -- welcome to Stock class. Almost every Stock class car has significant weaknesses; Jason was telling me on Friday that, to tame wheelspin and transition behavior, he had to install a bigger front bar and deal with push in sweepers. Sound familiar?

 

Andy and I haven't had the same pushing problems that everyone else has had, though maybe that's just because I've driven this thing for 3 Nationals now and my style is too adjusted too it.

Ice mode, Andy stated the key to me after Friday, never brake without being perfectly straight. I told him this in March, guess he forgot that I can honestly say I didn't get into ice mode this week minus one little scare, nothing major. Andy on the otherhand, hit it a few times.

 

"ICE" mode?

 

Try, on sticky tires, turning the wheel and jamming the brakes. You won't like the result.

 

Yes, I noticed that "the usual suspects" were in the top spots in the final results, but maybe I haven't been around long enough to recognize the names at the top on Thursday's results. That was what I was referring to about the results -- Jason, Joe, and Ron were not leading, but they were close.

I'm going to continue developing myself and the Z -- I still haven't made all of the changes to the car that can improve it, plus I need to work on the nut holding the steering wheel (a LOT). In addition, there are only a couple of us who have the RevUp engine (and ECU), there will be more next year. The CT-1 bar will be more generally available, although I may stay with the Eibach, but only time (and information) will tell. Also, tires may make a difference -- I don't expect Hoosier to sit by and let the 710s dominate, conversely I fully expect a good 710 size next year for 18-inch (and larger) wheeled cars.

Right now, the RX-8 has us covered, but I don't expect that situation to continue. Yes, they have great handling, but it is not handling alone that always wins (example-ES), sometimes you need more than that. I also don't expect the good RX-8 drivers to sit on their current setup, either.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa -- Your time would be more productively spent not incorrectly conjecturing about the RX-8's characteristics.

Just joking, but he got it right, upwards of -2.0 deg depending on your setup

as for not having negative camber adjustment, now you guys know how the Stock BMW drivers have been feeling over the last decade

 

Why would we want to do that ?