blazersman

iTrader: (9)

I've never been to a road course and had a few quick questions. What driver and/or vehicle requirements are common at road courses?

I've been pondering the reasons as to why there are so many drag tracks vs. road courses, and the only issue I can think of that limits road courses are development costs and liablility. Any insight would be awesome!

first350

iTrader: (24)

drvier requirments: most organizations will run 3-4 run groups with one of the groups as the 'novice' group...just about anyone can sign up as long as you have a driver's license and are over 18 yrs old (16-18 w. parent consent).

Car requirements: good running order, no oil leaks, OEM seat belts work properly, if convertebale - proper roll over protection. Just about any rental car could enter; except for SUV/truacks

In N. Cali, there are a handful a road tracks with only 2 drag strips (1 of the drags strip is at Sears point - which is also a road course).

archman350z

diddo on FIRST350's response. On your first time out, you won't be going that fast...the 350Z is waaaaaay more car than you'll use that day, so it will do well.

As far as why more drag strips than road courses? Road racing just isn't popular in the US. People like big horsepower or cars than incessantly turn left only. In my opinion, drag racing is easier to get started in than road racing; you line up, wait for the light, then plant the gas into the sheetmetal for 14 seconds. In road racing, you have to get good at braking and turning at the car's limit, all while strategically plotting out your path on the race track. It requires a level of concentration that is far above your average daily commute to work.

But, I find the challenge of road racing to be the biggest thrill. Even when no one else is out there on the track with you, you're still racing against yourself:
- Could I come into this corner quicker?
- Could I brake later here?
- What if I apex later on the first corner to get a better entry into the second corner?

And it never stops. The best drivers in the world are still making improvements to their driving techniques and finding new ways to go faster.

On your first day, just try to listen to what the instructors are telling you and have fun. Work on getting a clean line around the track and driving smooth...these are worth so much more than just trying to go as fast as you can (the speed will naturally increase later when you get more comfortable). If you don't get it the first time, keep trying...you'll get better. I simply cannot promote these events enough!

Vamos_Rafael

iTrader: (18)

imo VDC ON for first track session...
so u dont land in the ditch

first350

iTrader: (24)

archman350z mentioned it - you'll most likley have an instructor with you for your first day (or at leats the first few session depending on how you do). They'll not really worried about how fast you go, but how safe you are. They'll want to know that you can handle the car at the speeds you're driving and that you know track rules (what the flags mean, passing zones/etique...)

Track days are what I look forward to...between them, I try to hit the drag strip and auotXs to keep it interesting and save the $$.

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Lapping is my Yoga session...

High speed meditation is the best!

blazersman

iTrader: (9)

Awesome insight guys. Honestly, the whole question was based on a business plan that I have been developing within a Policy class. I believe that operating a high performance shop on the same property as a track would be strategic on the basis that both operations would feed off of each other. If I could find a very successful performance shop with expectations to expand, I would like to build a large warehouse and showroom on the same premises as a track and collect rent from an already successful organization to run the sales persepective. I would undoubtedly construct a drag strip, but I've been pondering a road course with driving instruction as well. However, I believe costs may exceed my expectations, so that may be a growth opportunity down the road for the complex.

Any ideas or comments????

Kolia

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a plan.

But tracks are usually in the country side and I like my tuner to be close to my home (in town).

A good tuner shop in town with a branch track side, to mount/dismount tires and some regular track supplies (pads, rotors, fluids, filters) with and a lift would be great.

njsho

iTrader: (2)

A tire shop next to a road course would do well...

blazersman

iTrader: (9)

I agree..... location is the major key to its success!

first350

iTrader: (24)

I agree with wanting a shop nearby (in town), but I would love the idea to get something done at the shop and hope on the track for a 5-10 minute session to see how the new changes worked out...but at this point, the main track I go to is a 3 hr drive - so I doubt I'd ever make a trip that far just to get something installed.

-but a tire mount/ballance , fluids, break pads shop would be great!

Stack

Hmmm interesting... I think a few good points have already been made... zoning for a road course generally puts them out in the boonies, meaning they would only be accessible to those attending events at said track... and then, your main business would be the emergency buys, or impulse buys since most attendees will have long since made their purchases before arriving at the track. Add to that any fees/percentages the host track will inevitably want from you.

The product requirements for drag strip and road course are completely different as well.

Your initial post hinted at the creation of a road course... and yes, development alone usually kills the project at the blueprint stage, even with initial financing. There are SO many hurdles and red tape, its amazing that ANY new track gets built these days. But I think you'll see that most are financed independently. Then the build costs are astronomical... I think paving right now is upwards of $250,000 per mile, and thats NOT including grading beforehand - thats JUST the cost of laying the asphalt. Add to that facility buildings and surrounds to make it attractive to rentors... quadruple those costs if you want a facility attractive to national level spectator events (like grand-am, ALMS, A1 GP, etc).

In other words... good luck

cessna

Dont listen to the above<s dumb comment.
TAKE THE VDC OFF! You<ll have alot of 'lag' time if you dont..

Cessna (Wonders what kind of tracks, Jvan uses for X-cross, as the sanctioned ones have to have 'run out' zones...)

blazersman

iTrader: (9)

You have very good points also..... like I said, I would most likely begin with a very nice drag strip surrounded by, like you said, facility buildings. I really think a complex such as this would work and don't understand why it has not been done on a large scale and marketed before. I can just picture a drag strip surrounded by perhaps a performance shop, body/paint shop, and tire/suspension/brake shop. The only issue is to have a really good culture between the renters so as to not create competition between them, however, with proper selling rules and a tight bond, I think it would work. I really think the key is to find already extremely successful companies that would really buy into the idea and bring the customers into the complex. It would bring in a large amount of customers and each company would feed off another. Then, like someone said before, jump on the track to see improvements! I know it sounds too much like a Midnight club video game or something, but I really think it would work.

first350

iTrader: (24)

I would think a drag strip would be the easiest to pull off - just make a huge parking lot so that you can do autoX, skid pad, etc...what kind of location are you thinking of? I doubt you'd be able to get very close to a town - noise, traffic and the type of cars it will atract would make any neighborhood protest it's development (I would hate to live within a few miles of a drag strip b/c of those reasons).

John

iTrader: (17)

Errr, no. With the VDC on, you won't actually learn. I have all my students turn the thing off so that they don't have an unexpected "panic" as the car tries to outsmart the driver.

archman350z

Great quote! I totally feel the same way. The few times that I've been happy and totally at peace is when I'm on the race track wringing out every last second of lap time the Z may have in it....

BLAZERSMAN: I like your idea. Actually, any idea that involves building more race tracks, I am totally for. However, you have to watch out for a few things:
- As someone earlier pointed out, tracks are expensive to build and maintain. You'd better have to plan to cover the costs of the track (i.e. holding professional race events, renting to car clubs, etc.) Insurance is also going to be a killer
- Be careful where you build. The best location would probably be a swamp, industrial area, or toxic waste dump. If there's any possibility for someone to build a house next to your track, you will have problems. The local track (anout 2 miles from my house) is in serious jeopardy of being shut down, despite the fact that GM, Ford, Chrysler, and Car&Driver all rent it out to do testing on new car models. People are stupid, and so they built their houses within a few hundred yards of the track, and they never stop complaining about the noise. The village has made all kinds of stupid ordinances...one year, the cops showed up and escorted everyone off the track and we weren't allowed to return until noon...even despite the fact that we all had federally approved mufflers installed and that the ordinance stated anytime after 9AM on a weekday was actually OK. Expect trouble if you build in a residential area.

GaryM05

I feel your pain. Here in Denver, we lost our closest-in track last year to encroaching development. People move in next door to an existing race track (which also happens to be right next to Denver International Airport), complain about the noise, and get the city to close the place down! There are lots of other places they could choose to live, but not many other places where we can race

blazersman

iTrader: (9)

Again, very good points are being made.... I really appreciate all the input because I really do want to make this happen. I am an entrepreneur at heart and enjoy developing business plans, but this one would be really special to me.

Cost and noise are definately the major hurdles. The idea to maintain rentors within the facilities are my theory of how it would be financed. Location is the other key, and with everybody's comments, I actually believe a HIGHLY industrial area is my best bet. I really don't want to get away from a highly populated area for fear of loosing customers on the retail side. The fact that the track would be surrounded by only performance shops would be a plus, too. They obviously won't mind the noise and surroundings. Time to start looking for some property I suppose!

archman350z

It's so sad to hear stories like these. Unfortunately, the problem doesn't affect many people, so there is a lot of ignorance out there. I've vowed to be vocal about these sorts of things by attending board meetings, joining car clubs, and telling people (outside of the racing community) what's going on. It's a good part of the reason that I tell people about HPDEs and track days. It's a great way to relieve stress, and it keeps the local tracks open because people are using them. If I can ever find a way to get a race track protected like a state park, it will be a great day.

I had a great idea: if you can't find anywhere else than a residential area, buy the whole chunk of land and sell it as a "gated community." Sell the houses only to racers, and market it as a track in your own back yard. They've done it with golf courses and airports, why not race tracks? Simply drive your race car out of the garage, onto the entryway and then to the race track. No trailers, no RVs, and if something breaks you can push it back to your own garage.

Wait...I think I just described what heaven will be like. Oh, I can't wait to die now...