Racing wheel studs
05-06-2006, 01:32 PM
#21
Originally Posted by dnguyent
IMO, and it may initially seem obvious to many of you, stud failure is due the lack of strength. But, what may not be obvious is why there isn't enough strength from the stud, so bear with me for a minute...
Kolia brought up a great point about fatigue. Although most folks would think that fatigue originates from the loading and unloading of the studs during cornering. The studs are actually prestressed when the lug nuts are tightened. If they are stressed sufficiently, the studs do no experience the repetitive loading cycles from cornering. As long as the wheel mating surface never leaves the hub/rotor hat mating surface the stud maintains at the same stress level, and does not "see" a stress cycle.
Some may argue that changes in temperature causes repetitive loading, but the gradual and relatively slow heating and cooling cycles from track sessions are not enough to cause fatigue issues. When dealing with fatigue, we're usually dealing with 100's of thousands of cycles.
Now, back on the subject of strength. If we tighten the lug nuts per specs (85-90 ft-bls), the stud is stretched within its elastic range. Preferably, it is stretched nowhere near its yield strength. What happens with us minority track folks is that our brakes get hot, our tires get hot, and our wheels get hot. Because aluminum's thermal expansion coefficient is nearly twice that of steel, there is additional expansion of the material between the hub and the lug nut that effectively "tightens" the stud above and beyond what we initially tightened them to. Many of you already know this, I'm just trying to accommodate others who haven't been through problem.
So where am I going with this?
1) Don't overtighten your lug nuts, or you'll be using up the residual strength needed when the stud is further stretched during your track sessions. Use a calibrated torque wrench. If you're using lubrication in the threads and/or lub mating surface, reduce the torque a bit.
2) Don't use thick aluminum wheel spacers. In fact, avoid using spacer if you can. The more aluminum you have between the lug nut and the hub, the more chances you have of stud failure.
3) Spinning, then hitting berms laterally, digging your wheels into hard dirt, or any lateral impact to the wheels may very well overstress your stud. It is probably a good idea to replace them.
I don't quite know what to say about Christoc (1-2 broken studs per weekend). That is just nutty. The heat levels aren't as high in autoX, so I'm puzzled. Are you using spacers? What are you torquing your lugs to?
As for John, Jason, and others who are torquing to specs, but still snap studs frequently, you're probably just heating up your wheel more than the rest of us. About a year ago, I recall seeing posts of brembos baked to the point of being the color of poo. I have the 355mm Stoptechs, and I don't think I put that much heat into them and into the wheel because they are not poo colored yet.
Kolia brought up a great point about fatigue. Although most folks would think that fatigue originates from the loading and unloading of the studs during cornering. The studs are actually prestressed when the lug nuts are tightened. If they are stressed sufficiently, the studs do no experience the repetitive loading cycles from cornering. As long as the wheel mating surface never leaves the hub/rotor hat mating surface the stud maintains at the same stress level, and does not "see" a stress cycle.
Some may argue that changes in temperature causes repetitive loading, but the gradual and relatively slow heating and cooling cycles from track sessions are not enough to cause fatigue issues. When dealing with fatigue, we're usually dealing with 100's of thousands of cycles.
Now, back on the subject of strength. If we tighten the lug nuts per specs (85-90 ft-bls), the stud is stretched within its elastic range. Preferably, it is stretched nowhere near its yield strength. What happens with us minority track folks is that our brakes get hot, our tires get hot, and our wheels get hot. Because aluminum's thermal expansion coefficient is nearly twice that of steel, there is additional expansion of the material between the hub and the lug nut that effectively "tightens" the stud above and beyond what we initially tightened them to. Many of you already know this, I'm just trying to accommodate others who haven't been through problem.
So where am I going with this?
1) Don't overtighten your lug nuts, or you'll be using up the residual strength needed when the stud is further stretched during your track sessions. Use a calibrated torque wrench. If you're using lubrication in the threads and/or lub mating surface, reduce the torque a bit.
2) Don't use thick aluminum wheel spacers. In fact, avoid using spacer if you can. The more aluminum you have between the lug nut and the hub, the more chances you have of stud failure.
3) Spinning, then hitting berms laterally, digging your wheels into hard dirt, or any lateral impact to the wheels may very well overstress your stud. It is probably a good idea to replace them.
I don't quite know what to say about Christoc (1-2 broken studs per weekend). That is just nutty. The heat levels aren't as high in autoX, so I'm puzzled. Are you using spacers? What are you torquing your lugs to?
As for John, Jason, and others who are torquing to specs, but still snap studs frequently, you're probably just heating up your wheel more than the rest of us. About a year ago, I recall seeing posts of brembos baked to the point of being the color of poo. I have the 355mm Stoptechs, and I don't think I put that much heat into them and into the wheel because they are not poo colored yet.
05-06-2006, 02:37 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by sq40
Very well put, I work in a manufacturing enviroment and we have some press cylinders with nuts torqed to 2,000,000 ftlbs. They are Super-Cooled at the factory and put on. Then when they heat up to normal temp you get that pressure.
05-08-2006, 05:51 PM
#23
I just ordered a few sets of the ARP studs part # ARP-100-7708 from Summit Racing at $11.95 per pack of 5 studs
Here's the description:
"Brand: ARP Automotive Racing Products
Product Line: ARP Wheel Studs
Wheel Stud Style: Press-in
Thread Size: 12mm x 1.50 RH
Knurl Diameter: 0.509 in.
Underhead Length (in): 2.500 in.
Knurl Length (in): 0.315 in.
Quick Start Nose: No
Quantity: Sold as a set of 5.
Notes: Fits late model Camaro, Corvette, and Firebird applications.
Wheel Studs, Press-In, 12mm x 1.5 Right Hand Thread, Set of 5
Tough enough for competition.
These extra-long ARP wheel studs are designed for today's thick-centered, high-performance and racing wheels. These chromemoly steel studs are heat-treated and have a 190,000 psi tensile strength rating."
From my calculations these should be a direct replacement for our stock or Nismo studs. They are 63.5mm long (stock is ~44-46mm long) and have a 0.509in/13.0mm diameter knurl (better than H&R which is 0.485/12.32mm and fits too loose)
These aren't much cheaper than Nismo's but are longer, and stronger. The Nismo's have a tendency to snap just like stock studs. Keep in mind you'll want to run open ended lug nuts to allow for the extra length if you're not running spacers. You should be able to run up to 20mm spacers with these studs before running out of thread.
I'll try to remember to update this thread once I get them installed
Here's the description:
"Brand: ARP Automotive Racing Products
Product Line: ARP Wheel Studs
Wheel Stud Style: Press-in
Thread Size: 12mm x 1.50 RH
Knurl Diameter: 0.509 in.
Underhead Length (in): 2.500 in.
Knurl Length (in): 0.315 in.
Quick Start Nose: No
Quantity: Sold as a set of 5.
Notes: Fits late model Camaro, Corvette, and Firebird applications.
Wheel Studs, Press-In, 12mm x 1.5 Right Hand Thread, Set of 5
Tough enough for competition.
These extra-long ARP wheel studs are designed for today's thick-centered, high-performance and racing wheels. These chromemoly steel studs are heat-treated and have a 190,000 psi tensile strength rating."
From my calculations these should be a direct replacement for our stock or Nismo studs. They are 63.5mm long (stock is ~44-46mm long) and have a 0.509in/13.0mm diameter knurl (better than H&R which is 0.485/12.32mm and fits too loose)
These aren't much cheaper than Nismo's but are longer, and stronger. The Nismo's have a tendency to snap just like stock studs. Keep in mind you'll want to run open ended lug nuts to allow for the extra length if you're not running spacers. You should be able to run up to 20mm spacers with these studs before running out of thread.
I'll try to remember to update this thread once I get them installed
Last edited by 03Z33; 05-08-2006 at 05:53 PM.
05-09-2006, 05:46 PM
#24
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Go with the NISMO 60mm studs from Performance Nissan. A little pricey but worth it. We change tires about 8 times a month and have had them installed for 3 years and not one problem out of them 
Bryan
Bryan
05-10-2006, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ALong
Rob,
ARP has them for the 350Z. I am running the STuds that came with the H&R spacers that I am using. They are German TUV approved, and I know the TUV approval process is pretty stringent, with wheels they require they can withstand a huge lateral load without distortion, something like 3000lbs. I figure they probably require a similar type test on wheel studs/spacers (The last thing they want is studs failing on a 5000lbs Mercedes at 160 on the Autobahn). So far so good, the studs seem to be holding up well. In the future I will probably change them to the ARP's with the rounded ends.
ARP has them for the 350Z. I am running the STuds that came with the H&R spacers that I am using. They are German TUV approved, and I know the TUV approval process is pretty stringent, with wheels they require they can withstand a huge lateral load without distortion, something like 3000lbs. I figure they probably require a similar type test on wheel studs/spacers (The last thing they want is studs failing on a 5000lbs Mercedes at 160 on the Autobahn). So far so good, the studs seem to be holding up well. In the future I will probably change them to the ARP's with the rounded ends.
05-11-2006, 09:10 PM
#27
I installed the ARP's on the front of my S13 this evening, the Nismo part # for S13 and Z33 is same, so I'm assuming the studs will fit my Z fine also. The length is perfect for my 20mm spacers on that car and the studs fit nice an tight in the hubs.
The only potential issue is the knurl length... the ARP's have a 0.315"/8mm knurl. The stock stud knurl on the S13 is approximately 10mm. The hub is also ~10-11mm thick. I can't remember if the Z33 hub is thicker, I'll check it out next time I have the brakes off, but on the S13 it's a non-issue, the studs fit tight and have no sideways play (like the H&R studs do).
The only potential issue is the knurl length... the ARP's have a 0.315"/8mm knurl. The stock stud knurl on the S13 is approximately 10mm. The hub is also ~10-11mm thick. I can't remember if the Z33 hub is thicker, I'll check it out next time I have the brakes off, but on the S13 it's a non-issue, the studs fit tight and have no sideways play (like the H&R studs do).
07-01-2006, 07:53 PM
#28
Originally Posted by daveh
I've also been using H&R's for a while now but was hesitant to mention them because others have reported problems with them. I have changed my wheels well over 50 times and have never had a problem with them. I use a touch of anti-seize as well.
07-01-2006, 08:56 PM
#29
The OEM studs should be fine for the DRM, since you're just bolting on the spacer to the hub, not the wheel.
The ARP studs with the correct knurl (14.3mm) for the Z only come in 1/2 in. thread, not available in M12 1.5 thread, so you'd have to change the lug nuts too.
I ended up with direct replacement studs from Peak Performance, pretty much same as Nismo's and Stock just cheaper.
http://phase2motorsports.stores.yaho...e60lowhst.html
(same as S14 Front)
The ARP studs with the correct knurl (14.3mm) for the Z only come in 1/2 in. thread, not available in M12 1.5 thread, so you'd have to change the lug nuts too.
I ended up with direct replacement studs from Peak Performance, pretty much same as Nismo's and Stock just cheaper.
http://phase2motorsports.stores.yaho...e60lowhst.html
(same as S14 Front)
Last edited by 03Z33; 07-01-2006 at 09:02 PM.
07-02-2006, 07:09 AM
#30
I've been religiously using anti-sieze on my studs (one application every six months) since I was breaking studs on the SpecV about once every 3 months or so. A machinist friend pointed out (while I was changing one of the studs) that the SpecV lugs were stainless while the lugs were not -- and any small imperfection would cause the lugs to literally "machine" metal off of the threads, heat up, and then weld together. At that point, all I could do was literally break the studs and replace them.
Since I started using anti-sieze on the threads (DON'T GET ANY ON THE SEAT FACE!) I haven't had any problems (but I should buy a couple of extra studs -- just in case).
Since I started using anti-sieze on the threads (DON'T GET ANY ON THE SEAT FACE!) I haven't had any problems (but I should buy a couple of extra studs -- just in case).
07-02-2006, 09:16 AM
#31
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OEM 350Z stud knurl is : Dia= 14.25mm( 0.561"),length= 8mm
If you want the biggest and best stud for the track we have an extra set that we made for our 2003 Enthusiast and our 2005 Track cars,1/2" Moroso studs custom machined to match 350Z knurl(came with .568" dia X 20 mm long knurl).
Specs:
Thread................1/2-20
Knurl...................14.25mm(0.561") x 8mm
underhead length..62mm(2.5") + rounded end(quick mount)
The 1/2 inch dia fits OEM rotors and wheels just fine.If anyone wants our extra set you can have for $150 plus shipping.Expensive, but custom machining is hard to come by and I am embarrassed to mention what the actual cost was for our three sets.Lug nuts included plus photo instructions for installation trick for rear studs.
Jim and Carter T.
If you want the biggest and best stud for the track we have an extra set that we made for our 2003 Enthusiast and our 2005 Track cars,1/2" Moroso studs custom machined to match 350Z knurl(came with .568" dia X 20 mm long knurl).
Specs:
Thread................1/2-20
Knurl...................14.25mm(0.561") x 8mm
underhead length..62mm(2.5") + rounded end(quick mount)
The 1/2 inch dia fits OEM rotors and wheels just fine.If anyone wants our extra set you can have for $150 plus shipping.Expensive, but custom machining is hard to come by and I am embarrassed to mention what the actual cost was for our three sets.Lug nuts included plus photo instructions for installation trick for rear studs.
Jim and Carter T.
Last edited by tomsn16; 11-09-2007 at 01:03 PM. Reason: spelling
07-02-2006, 04:15 PM
#34
After reading several posts here on the Forum, It appears the 96 Maxima uses the same studs as the Z. The local Advance has the studs in stock for $1 each. They look to be exactly the same as in the H&R so far, but I will have to check them out first.
07-02-2006, 07:25 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Rob Hines
Is anyone using aftermarket wheel studs that are able to deal with the stress / abuse of racing? I need something that fits the stock hub and is the same length or slightly longer than stock.
Does ARP make studs for the car?
Thanks!
-Rob
Does ARP make studs for the car?
Thanks!
-Rob
07-02-2006, 07:33 PM
#36
Originally Posted by tomsn16
Might be a good time to get this thread back on track.You will not find studs suitable for racing at your local Advance store.
As popular as the Z is for Motorsports, you would think ARP would have made a compatible product in the 3 years the Z has been out.
11-08-2007, 10:34 AM
#37
Originally Posted by 03Z33
I just ordered a few sets of the ARP studs part # ARP-100-7708 from Summit Racing at $11.95 per pack of 5 studs
Here's the description:
"Brand: ARP Automotive Racing Products
Product Line: ARP Wheel Studs
Wheel Stud Style: Press-in
Thread Size: 12mm x 1.50 RH
Knurl Diameter: 0.509 in.
Underhead Length (in): 2.500 in.
Knurl Length (in): 0.315 in.
Quick Start Nose: No
Quantity: Sold as a set of 5.
Notes: Fits late model Camaro, Corvette, and Firebird applications.
Wheel Studs, Press-In, 12mm x 1.5 Right Hand Thread, Set of 5
Tough enough for competition.
These extra-long ARP wheel studs are designed for today's thick-centered, high-performance and racing wheels. These chromemoly steel studs are heat-treated and have a 190,000 psi tensile strength rating."
From my calculations these should be a direct replacement for our stock or Nismo studs. They are 63.5mm long (stock is ~44-46mm long) and have a 0.509in/13.0mm diameter knurl (better than H&R which is 0.485/12.32mm and fits too loose)
These aren't much cheaper than Nismo's but are longer, and stronger. The Nismo's have a tendency to snap just like stock studs. Keep in mind you'll want to run open ended lug nuts to allow for the extra length if you're not running spacers. You should be able to run up to 20mm spacers with these studs before running out of thread.
I'll try to remember to update this thread once I get them installed
Here's the description:
"Brand: ARP Automotive Racing Products
Product Line: ARP Wheel Studs
Wheel Stud Style: Press-in
Thread Size: 12mm x 1.50 RH
Knurl Diameter: 0.509 in.
Underhead Length (in): 2.500 in.
Knurl Length (in): 0.315 in.
Quick Start Nose: No
Quantity: Sold as a set of 5.
Notes: Fits late model Camaro, Corvette, and Firebird applications.
Wheel Studs, Press-In, 12mm x 1.5 Right Hand Thread, Set of 5
Tough enough for competition.
These extra-long ARP wheel studs are designed for today's thick-centered, high-performance and racing wheels. These chromemoly steel studs are heat-treated and have a 190,000 psi tensile strength rating."
From my calculations these should be a direct replacement for our stock or Nismo studs. They are 63.5mm long (stock is ~44-46mm long) and have a 0.509in/13.0mm diameter knurl (better than H&R which is 0.485/12.32mm and fits too loose)
These aren't much cheaper than Nismo's but are longer, and stronger. The Nismo's have a tendency to snap just like stock studs. Keep in mind you'll want to run open ended lug nuts to allow for the extra length if you're not running spacers. You should be able to run up to 20mm spacers with these studs before running out of thread.
I'll try to remember to update this thread once I get them installed
back from the dead
is this still recommended?
what open ended lug nuts would you guys recommend?
11-08-2007, 10:43 AM
#38
Originally Posted by ipodhustle
back from the dead
is this still recommended?
what open ended lug nuts would you guys recommend?
is this still recommended?
what open ended lug nuts would you guys recommend?
As for lug nuts, I've used:
Mutegi, which are inexpensive
Kics R40 or R26 which are very expensive
Nismo long (closed but long enough)
Volk long (closed but long enough)
11-08-2007, 11:37 AM
#39
Originally Posted by 03Z33
Yes, they work.
As for lug nuts, I've used:
Mutegi, which are inexpensive
Kics R40 or R26 which are very expensive
Nismo long (closed but long enough)
Volk long (closed but long enough)
As for lug nuts, I've used:
Mutegi, which are inexpensive
Kics R40 or R26 which are very expensive
Nismo long (closed but long enough)
Volk long (closed but long enough)
since you're in so cal, do you know anyone who stocks those arp studs?
11-08-2007, 11:41 AM
#40
Originally Posted by ipodhustle
since you're in so cal, do you know anyone who stocks those arp studs?