ajw101

iTrader: (3)

I used to race karts at Gingerman, Grattan and Mid Ohio. I'm thinking of putting Mid Ohio on the schedule for the Z this year. I haven't been there for about 10 years, when I flipped a kart on the back straight at like 70 mph.

I'll have to find a schedule for those places.

LeManz33

iTrader: (4)

+1....Except no one would let get close to wheel to wheel racing at this point

OPTIMO

Autocross is good if you have very novice driving skills. Otherwise, it will just set you up with bad habits to break once you start doing HPDEs.

I think Auto-Xs are not worth the time.

scotts300

iTrader: (46)

I respectfully, but wholeheartedly, disagree with all 3 of your opinions. Take a novice autoxer and let them make 4 runs in their/your/some car. Take an amateur autoxer and put them in the same car. In all likelihood, the amateur will be faster than the novice on their first run. Car control, confidence, understanding suspension geometry/changes, tire adhesion and limitations, etc., etc., all play together from autox to HPDE.

The biggest thing I've had to overcome is learning when it is worthwhile to go slower while shortening a track to produce a faster lap.

Z1NONLY

iTrader: (2)

Will you be attending ZdayZ this year?

dhays

iTrader: (10)

Wow.

I can understand you thinking that Auto-X isn't the worth the time. To each his own.

I don't have any experience with HPDE so maybe good Auto-X skills are bad habits on the track. I don't know.

As for your first assertion, I really don't know what the heck you are talking about. Auto-X is it's own motorsport. Have you actually seen good Auto-X drivers in action? Have you ridden with them? Even more important, have you ever tried to beat them on a course in an equivalent car?

Ataru074

iTrader: (19)

true, and isn't a real news the fact that experience plays really a good part in this sport.
BUT on a typical autoX course the Z is more a heavy goat prone to understeer and overpower the rear end if you aren't accurate enough...
on a regular track is a momentum car...

two completely different driving style... it's pretty much the difference you have trying to do a donut on the ground around a cone or doing a really wider donut around a skidpad... the feel of the car sliding is the same, but the "challenge" of doing it is a completely DIFFERENT (not easier, not harder), just different beast.

just because I like to repeat myself... autoX is competition... HPDE is learning.
autoX, in the long run, you learn how to "fine" control a car on a tight highway ramp... after several HPDE you gain confidence for any possible LEGAL speed on the road and some.
what matters at the beginning and intermediate and advanced level is how much time you spend driving close to your limit and the car limit...
autoX you just don't do enough.

and a simple fact... get a guy with 3 or 4 years of HPDE experience and put him on an autoX course...
and get a guy with 3 or 4 years of autoX experience and put him on a real track...

let's see who's going to be the most "stressed" at the end of the day.

PDX_Racer

iTrader: (2)

I'm "current" on autocross, HPDE, and road racing skills. I'll tone down my response to your post to "your opinion is much less than useless -- in addition to being flat-out wrong."

Ask Randy Pobst, Jeff Altenburg, Scotty White, Cindi Lux, or any other of a VERY LONG LIST of professional race car drivers about the benefits of learning driving skills on an autocross course. Ask any of my past race driving instructors about whether autocross skills are important.

If you can control a spin at 20 MPH, you can control one at 120 MPH. The physics are the same (just the speeds are different). You need faster reflexes at 120 MPH, but everything else is the same. In fact, if you can feel a spin at 20 MPH, you'll probably catch that 120 MPH loss of traction before it becomes an issue. In fact, for road racing it's rare that you'll ever be at 100% of the car and driver -- yet for autocross every run is effectively a qualifying lap.

PDX_Racer

iTrader: (2)

The HPDE driver will be more stressed (and more upset at getting his butt handed to him). I see it all of the time.

M1r4cL3

iTrader: (8)

AutoX, like marijuana, is a gateway drug. Keep hittin the blunt and eventually u'll get hooked on crack (HPDE).

PDX_Racer

iTrader: (2)

Actually, crack might be cheaper.

reserved

iTrader: (18)

Well, to me the key word here is TIME!!!!!
I'm sure it is true that autox skills have value. My issue with it is the amount of time spent waiting/chasing cones/waiting some more.......and finally getting to do maybe 5 runs, each of which last less than 60 seconds.
Having a busy job, family committments etc etc, it just doesn't seem a worthwhile investment of my time to spend a whole day in return for 5 mins. of actual "seat" time.
So to that extent, I would agree with the above statement.

PDX_Racer

iTrader: (2)

If you think that driving is over when you cross the finish lights, here's your wakeup call.

I generally spend between two and four minutes after each run going over data, reviewing what I did right or wrong. That's in addition to putting tire blankets on, or spraying down the tires (depending upon whether they are cold or hot), and opening the hood to get the hot air from around the engine out of the engine compartment.

Then, and only then, do I really have time to visit with and watch other drivers.

I generally attend autocross events where the cars are 'split' into a morning half and an afternoon half, so I'm there only half a day -- but I also volunteer to help run the event as well, so I get to stick around and visit and watch some more.

When I'm doing an HPDE, it's rare that I get time away from my car between sessions to visit with other drivers -- and they're as busy as I am anyway.

When I'm driving "for real" I have virtually no time away from my car -- even if I have someone helping me (which is pretty much required for racing).