New Race Series
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350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
New Race Series
New Race Series?
A couple of years ago I had played around with the thought of a new Stock Car racing series. The difference between this one and the others that proceeded it is the classes. In my series the cars would be classed according to their price and production numbers, not their HP/Lbs. ratio and handling prowess.
Here’s the basic idea. All cars would be Stock, except for safety equipment. The classes would pan out something like this.
Cars Under $25K and more than 30K built a year.
Cars Under $50K and more than 20K
Cars Under $75K and more than 10K built
Cars Over $75K and Over 1K Built a year.
I won’t care if was a coupe, sedan, station wagon in any of the classes. Let the Manufactures fight out on who really has the best cars for the money.
This would also keep the one off’s from winning a series when it doesn’t reflect any car in their line. The Manufacturers would have to install any winning parts on their production cars first before it shows up on the race version. It may get some builders off their but if their car gets beat every time.
So would anyone here watch this?
--------------------
really Stock or Just “Stock”
Me -
All cars have to be stock except safety equipement and possible driver seat change.
Be Great to showcase manufactures cars and for privateers. And NO handy capping the winners. The other makers will have to just step up to compete. Also no Special edition parts or models that the public can not buy. All modifications must be available to the general public and the actual car competing will have to be priced as msrp. Any new items must first appear in production before it can get into the series cars. No BMW GTR V8 cars here (UMM, yeah...we're going to build a V8 M3....Someday).
--------------------
I believe that everyone would love a series like this... everyone except auto manufacturers. The first category would be one of the fiercest, and would also cause the most friction with the manufacturers. That they would be forced to actually compete with eachother based on production models would make quite a few marketing folks nervous (what if your cars end up sucking wind on the track, how do you sell them?). I think that's probably why it won't happen unless one of the big three gets behind it. The other problem is that the american auto makers would be forced to compete with the foreign ones, and we all know how much they don't like direct competition (see import duties on trucks). Disclaimer having been noted, if this series were to happen, and have something other than an oval track, (throw some left and right curves at them), I would start to watch auto racing (as opposed to just drag racing) religiously.
Me -
I think the key to make all the Makers happy and have more than one model winning is to mix up the types of tracks. Have the tight/twisty tracks so the lower HP foreign cars (and maybe domestic, you never know)can shine. Then have more open venues where the higher HP vehicles can stretch their legs. Think about a Camaro against a WRX. Each could easily win depending on the track.
One other point I thought about is to let cars compete up to 2 years after production dates. That way if a Maker stops builing a car (ie F-Bodies), the privateers can still run them for two years.
Sounds good to me. I wouldn't mind seeing some real world racing. What would be cool is if they were required to use a real car. But they could strip the interior and install a cage and other safety equipment. Other than that they had to use the car as is...
Me -
No Stripping allowed, too much weight can be taken out that way. I think they can only replace the driver seat with a fia or sfi approved seat, and install safety equipment
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not in the US Marty. People in the US buy cars based on how they look and how fast they accelerate. Nobody really cares how good a car is overall other than us autox and roadrace people. You know the ALMS is based on production numbers. I think World Challenge has some Production stipulations too. I do think it's a neat Idea, but after a season it'd be a one car series in each class. Besides that'd really screw up what car and driver does to tell you what the best car is. Putting a 0-60 time on the cover of a mag is all important to a cars performance you know.
Me-
I had always heard people bought cars on Price and perceived value in the US (or the often catch phrase - Bang for the Buck). Which is why the Camry and Accords are the #1 selling cars. As far as Performance images go, yes the mighty 0-60 and HP figures rule, which is funny to me because peak HP tells nothing about the total TQ curve.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Those would be some pretty boring classes...
I like the idea, but the production numbers are a little on the high side.
Among the many cars not eligible...
Toyota MR2 Spyder (fewer than 10,000 per year, but the price is around $50,000)
Toyota Celica GTS
Toyota Celica GT (only the first year of a model ever meets those production numbers)
Toyota Supra
Acura NSX
Corvette Z06
Subaru WRX, STi
etc...
Set all production numbers at 1000 units (or lower) and keep the price divisions.
Why should the enthusiast be at the mercy of the "normal" population, obviously our shopping habits differ from the "norm."
Me-
They wouldn't be excluded, just moved up a class. The actual cut off numbers would need to be fined tuned.
As far as one model winning all the time, that would just show that it's a better car as far as this series goes. Maybe it would get the other Manufactures off their buts.
If the Z06 is whooping up on the $75K+ cars, then that shows how good the Z06 really is for $50K.
If you set the prod numbers as low as 1K, then the manufactures will design a ringer, sell 1K to their supported teams and certain privateers and nothing would be available to the general public.
There also needs to be a rule about a car can not compete until it goes on sale to the public. Otherwise you could also get Cars like the M3 GTR (hmm, yeah, we are going to sell a V8 M3....Someday).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Your series would be a great answer to this if there were a variety of racing types for the cars. Unfortunally if the cars are actually close to stock there will be a car in each class that beats everything else and it won't be interesting to watch. To cure this you'd have to add weight or cut power on the top cars, which would then make crappy cars look better than they actually are, and then again you get the perceived image that something is better than it actually is.
Me -
I think the key to make all the Makers happy and have more than one model winning is to mix up the types of tracks. Have the tight/twisty tracks so the lower HP foreign cars (and maybe domestic, you never know)can shine. Then have more open venues where the higher HP vehicles can stretch their legs. Think about a Camaro against a WRX. Each could easily win depending on the track.
One other point I thought about is to let cars compete up to 2 years after production dates. That way if a Maker stops builing a car (ie F-Bodies), the privateers can still run them for two years.
A couple of years ago I had played around with the thought of a new Stock Car racing series. The difference between this one and the others that proceeded it is the classes. In my series the cars would be classed according to their price and production numbers, not their HP/Lbs. ratio and handling prowess.
Here’s the basic idea. All cars would be Stock, except for safety equipment. The classes would pan out something like this.
Cars Under $25K and more than 30K built a year.
Cars Under $50K and more than 20K
Cars Under $75K and more than 10K built
Cars Over $75K and Over 1K Built a year.
I won’t care if was a coupe, sedan, station wagon in any of the classes. Let the Manufactures fight out on who really has the best cars for the money.
This would also keep the one off’s from winning a series when it doesn’t reflect any car in their line. The Manufacturers would have to install any winning parts on their production cars first before it shows up on the race version. It may get some builders off their but if their car gets beat every time.
So would anyone here watch this?
--------------------
really Stock or Just “Stock”
Me -
All cars have to be stock except safety equipement and possible driver seat change.
Be Great to showcase manufactures cars and for privateers. And NO handy capping the winners. The other makers will have to just step up to compete. Also no Special edition parts or models that the public can not buy. All modifications must be available to the general public and the actual car competing will have to be priced as msrp. Any new items must first appear in production before it can get into the series cars. No BMW GTR V8 cars here (UMM, yeah...we're going to build a V8 M3....Someday).
--------------------
I believe that everyone would love a series like this... everyone except auto manufacturers. The first category would be one of the fiercest, and would also cause the most friction with the manufacturers. That they would be forced to actually compete with eachother based on production models would make quite a few marketing folks nervous (what if your cars end up sucking wind on the track, how do you sell them?). I think that's probably why it won't happen unless one of the big three gets behind it. The other problem is that the american auto makers would be forced to compete with the foreign ones, and we all know how much they don't like direct competition (see import duties on trucks). Disclaimer having been noted, if this series were to happen, and have something other than an oval track, (throw some left and right curves at them), I would start to watch auto racing (as opposed to just drag racing) religiously.
Me -
I think the key to make all the Makers happy and have more than one model winning is to mix up the types of tracks. Have the tight/twisty tracks so the lower HP foreign cars (and maybe domestic, you never know)can shine. Then have more open venues where the higher HP vehicles can stretch their legs. Think about a Camaro against a WRX. Each could easily win depending on the track.
One other point I thought about is to let cars compete up to 2 years after production dates. That way if a Maker stops builing a car (ie F-Bodies), the privateers can still run them for two years.
Sounds good to me. I wouldn't mind seeing some real world racing. What would be cool is if they were required to use a real car. But they could strip the interior and install a cage and other safety equipment. Other than that they had to use the car as is...
Me -
No Stripping allowed, too much weight can be taken out that way. I think they can only replace the driver seat with a fia or sfi approved seat, and install safety equipment
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not in the US Marty. People in the US buy cars based on how they look and how fast they accelerate. Nobody really cares how good a car is overall other than us autox and roadrace people. You know the ALMS is based on production numbers. I think World Challenge has some Production stipulations too. I do think it's a neat Idea, but after a season it'd be a one car series in each class. Besides that'd really screw up what car and driver does to tell you what the best car is. Putting a 0-60 time on the cover of a mag is all important to a cars performance you know.
Me-
I had always heard people bought cars on Price and perceived value in the US (or the often catch phrase - Bang for the Buck). Which is why the Camry and Accords are the #1 selling cars. As far as Performance images go, yes the mighty 0-60 and HP figures rule, which is funny to me because peak HP tells nothing about the total TQ curve.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Those would be some pretty boring classes...
I like the idea, but the production numbers are a little on the high side.
Among the many cars not eligible...
Toyota MR2 Spyder (fewer than 10,000 per year, but the price is around $50,000)
Toyota Celica GTS
Toyota Celica GT (only the first year of a model ever meets those production numbers)
Toyota Supra
Acura NSX
Corvette Z06
Subaru WRX, STi
etc...
Set all production numbers at 1000 units (or lower) and keep the price divisions.
Why should the enthusiast be at the mercy of the "normal" population, obviously our shopping habits differ from the "norm."
Me-
They wouldn't be excluded, just moved up a class. The actual cut off numbers would need to be fined tuned.
As far as one model winning all the time, that would just show that it's a better car as far as this series goes. Maybe it would get the other Manufactures off their buts.
If the Z06 is whooping up on the $75K+ cars, then that shows how good the Z06 really is for $50K.
If you set the prod numbers as low as 1K, then the manufactures will design a ringer, sell 1K to their supported teams and certain privateers and nothing would be available to the general public.
There also needs to be a rule about a car can not compete until it goes on sale to the public. Otherwise you could also get Cars like the M3 GTR (hmm, yeah, we are going to sell a V8 M3....Someday).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Your series would be a great answer to this if there were a variety of racing types for the cars. Unfortunally if the cars are actually close to stock there will be a car in each class that beats everything else and it won't be interesting to watch. To cure this you'd have to add weight or cut power on the top cars, which would then make crappy cars look better than they actually are, and then again you get the perceived image that something is better than it actually is.
Me -
I think the key to make all the Makers happy and have more than one model winning is to mix up the types of tracks. Have the tight/twisty tracks so the lower HP foreign cars (and maybe domestic, you never know)can shine. Then have more open venues where the higher HP vehicles can stretch their legs. Think about a Camaro against a WRX. Each could easily win depending on the track.
One other point I thought about is to let cars compete up to 2 years after production dates. That way if a Maker stops builing a car (ie F-Bodies), the privateers can still run them for two years.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From: Canada
I see where your comming from and it's a noble idea but I don't think it would ever fly.
First of all your stock or close to stock category would never fly. To make a road car raceworthy in the most stock category you need to change suspension, brakes, safety, coolers at the most basic, probably $20,000 to $30,000 the least. Then most cars have their own shortcommings one way or another on the track (F-Bodies=Vapor Lock, RX-7s=cooked wastegate). If you don't let teams modify these parts they will not race the cars because it is too expensive to maintain. At our track Corvette would loose it's brakes on lap 3 and you have cars that should be flying at 130mph are crawling around 28 laps at 60 because they can't stop if they go any faster. Plus it would cost millions of dollars of R&D, manufacturing and changing parts on production cars, for what, so a manufacturer can shave .5 seconds off a lap in a race series that influences maybe 2% of it's sales nationaly and less then 1% internationaly. Nissan would have to sell a lot of Sentra's to make up that cost, or price them at around $200,000 each
Secondly, you would figure spectators would love to watch the cars dicing it up and swaping positions, fighting for the lead. Thruth is they get more confused. Look at CART this year. With most of the major teams gone and more then half the field filled with rookies and backmarkers nobody tuned in. The cars where nearly equal all running the same engines, races had upwards of 10 lead changes, the 5 car fight for 13th was just as exciting as the 10 car the fight for 1st, action never stopped, and all cars ran whithin 5-7 seconds of the lead car but NOBODY WATCHED.
Thirdly, manufacturers wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It has absolutely nothing to offer them. F1 and Touring car (international like DTM, FIA Sports Car and GT series) is a place to showcase technology. The manufacturers never make a dollar off of these kinds of series but they learn enough to filter down to their road cars and entertain guests. In the states the only support these touring car and sports car series have from manufacturers are because one team or driver has dominated enough in the series that people are constantly talking about them in the showrooms so they are able to sell some extra cars and decide to show their support of the team by offering them parts discounts or financial rewards in the way of winning bonuses (Mazda in the Speed Touring Car Series). Ask any of the teams and 90% of their season budget is still comming from corporate sponsorship not factory backing. Except for a few small efforts there are no factory backed teams running any of these series. And BTW most of the time it looks like they are factory backed it's usualy because of one dealership, not the manufacturer (Lexus in Grand-Am Cup, Ferrari in ALMS).
Lastly, these series already exist in huge numbers at your local tracks. SCCA, NASA and FIA all run club, amateur and semi pro events all over the place. They do run plenty of stock categories and seperate the cars according to price/performance range. Chances are because it's not on TV that you, like manufacturers have just never bothered to check it out. It does provide exciting close racing in a relaxed environment. Here's a link to Valvoline Runoffs which are the culmination of a season of racing for amateurs at one special of event in Mid Ohio. This link shows the results and photos for all classes and you can see that the cars range from nearly bone stock SSC, SSB to tube frame racers GT1 and GT2. http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_rac...lts/index.html
First of all your stock or close to stock category would never fly. To make a road car raceworthy in the most stock category you need to change suspension, brakes, safety, coolers at the most basic, probably $20,000 to $30,000 the least. Then most cars have their own shortcommings one way or another on the track (F-Bodies=Vapor Lock, RX-7s=cooked wastegate). If you don't let teams modify these parts they will not race the cars because it is too expensive to maintain. At our track Corvette would loose it's brakes on lap 3 and you have cars that should be flying at 130mph are crawling around 28 laps at 60 because they can't stop if they go any faster. Plus it would cost millions of dollars of R&D, manufacturing and changing parts on production cars, for what, so a manufacturer can shave .5 seconds off a lap in a race series that influences maybe 2% of it's sales nationaly and less then 1% internationaly. Nissan would have to sell a lot of Sentra's to make up that cost, or price them at around $200,000 each
Secondly, you would figure spectators would love to watch the cars dicing it up and swaping positions, fighting for the lead. Thruth is they get more confused. Look at CART this year. With most of the major teams gone and more then half the field filled with rookies and backmarkers nobody tuned in. The cars where nearly equal all running the same engines, races had upwards of 10 lead changes, the 5 car fight for 13th was just as exciting as the 10 car the fight for 1st, action never stopped, and all cars ran whithin 5-7 seconds of the lead car but NOBODY WATCHED.
Thirdly, manufacturers wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It has absolutely nothing to offer them. F1 and Touring car (international like DTM, FIA Sports Car and GT series) is a place to showcase technology. The manufacturers never make a dollar off of these kinds of series but they learn enough to filter down to their road cars and entertain guests. In the states the only support these touring car and sports car series have from manufacturers are because one team or driver has dominated enough in the series that people are constantly talking about them in the showrooms so they are able to sell some extra cars and decide to show their support of the team by offering them parts discounts or financial rewards in the way of winning bonuses (Mazda in the Speed Touring Car Series). Ask any of the teams and 90% of their season budget is still comming from corporate sponsorship not factory backing. Except for a few small efforts there are no factory backed teams running any of these series. And BTW most of the time it looks like they are factory backed it's usualy because of one dealership, not the manufacturer (Lexus in Grand-Am Cup, Ferrari in ALMS).
Lastly, these series already exist in huge numbers at your local tracks. SCCA, NASA and FIA all run club, amateur and semi pro events all over the place. They do run plenty of stock categories and seperate the cars according to price/performance range. Chances are because it's not on TV that you, like manufacturers have just never bothered to check it out. It does provide exciting close racing in a relaxed environment. Here's a link to Valvoline Runoffs which are the culmination of a season of racing for amateurs at one special of event in Mid Ohio. This link shows the results and photos for all classes and you can see that the cars range from nearly bone stock SSC, SSB to tube frame racers GT1 and GT2. http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_rac...lts/index.html
Last edited by digerydingo; Dec 18, 2003 at 09:39 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 667
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From: East Rutherford, Jersey
I'll put my two cents in this.... my expertise in this is I work as a Marketing Research Analyst at Turner Sports (TNT + TBS). A lot of my time is focused on NASCAR and for a small niche start up sport, such as this, you would never get this on the air without SIGNIFICANT advertising funding backing it. If say a TON of auto manufactures bought a lot of ad inventory every week in advance and would committ money to drive other revenue then maybe. Or if this was a time buy, like how the MLS does with ABC Sports/ESPN, where the league buys the time slots for each event...maybe. But the ratings would have to justify supplanting other programming. Say you're paying a lot of money for Sydincated Sinfeld shows... now a ton of people watch them get a great rating and generate a lot of revenue to offset the high price of obtainning those shows. Now if you take that high rating out and put in a lower rated shows, that's going to adversely effect the bottom line. A start up sport will never again be put on Turner Sports as we did with the WUSA. This was a time buy from them, but the ratings were so bad, we opted out. This might work on a Niche network like Speed Channel or something on a digital tier, but not on a major net. I've thought about this myself, but look at IRL and CART, then look at NASCAR. The backing behind the sport would have to immense and would have to have a loyal following. Big problem with open wheel racing is less people can connect to these cars and the drivers than ever before, so less people watch that but can connect with blue collar sports like NASCAR.
Anyways... I could go on and on about this, but right now I don't think it's feasible on a major net.
I'd be happy to answer any questions as I made this rather ***ue.
Anyways... I could go on and on about this, but right now I don't think it's feasible on a major net.
I'd be happy to answer any questions as I made this rather ***ue.
Last edited by fanatic6711; Dec 18, 2003 at 10:26 AM.
Thread Starter
350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
Originally posted by digerydingo
I see where your comming from and it's a noble idea but I don't think it would ever fly.
First of all your stock or close to stock category would never fly. To make a road car raceworthy in the most stock category you need to change suspension, brakes, safety, coolers at the most basic, probably $20,000 to $30,000 the least. Then most cars have their own shortcommings one way or another on the track (F-Bodies=Vapor Lock, RX-7s=cooked wastegate). If you don't let teams modify these parts they will not race the cars because it is too expensive to maintain. At our track Corvette would loose it's brakes on lap 3 and you have cars that should be flying at 130mph are crawling around 28 laps at 60 because they can't stop if they go any faster. Plus it would cost millions of dollars of R&D, manufacturing and changing parts on production cars, for what, so a manufacturer can shave .5 seconds off a lap in a race series that influences maybe 2% of it's sales nationaly and less then 1% internationaly. Nissan would have to sell a lot of Sentra's to make up that cost, or price them at around $200,000 each
I see where your comming from and it's a noble idea but I don't think it would ever fly.
First of all your stock or close to stock category would never fly. To make a road car raceworthy in the most stock category you need to change suspension, brakes, safety, coolers at the most basic, probably $20,000 to $30,000 the least. Then most cars have their own shortcommings one way or another on the track (F-Bodies=Vapor Lock, RX-7s=cooked wastegate). If you don't let teams modify these parts they will not race the cars because it is too expensive to maintain. At our track Corvette would loose it's brakes on lap 3 and you have cars that should be flying at 130mph are crawling around 28 laps at 60 because they can't stop if they go any faster. Plus it would cost millions of dollars of R&D, manufacturing and changing parts on production cars, for what, so a manufacturer can shave .5 seconds off a lap in a race series that influences maybe 2% of it's sales nationaly and less then 1% internationaly. Nissan would have to sell a lot of Sentra's to make up that cost, or price them at around $200,000 each
Secondly, you would figure spectators would love to watch the cars dicing it up and swaping positions, fighting for the lead. Thruth is they get more confused. Look at CART this year. With most of the major teams gone and more then half the field filled with rookies and backmarkers nobody tuned in. The cars where nearly equal all running the same engines, races had upwards of 10 lead changes, the 5 car fight for 13th was just as exciting as the 10 car the fight for 1st, action never stopped, and all cars ran whithin 5-7 seconds of the lead car but NOBODY WATCHED.
Thirdly, manufacturers wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. It has absolutely nothing to offer them. F1 and Touring car (international like DTM, FIA Sports Car and GT series) is a place to showcase technology. The manufacturers never make a dollar off of these kinds of series but they learn enough to filter down to their road cars and entertain guests. In the states the only support these touring car and sports car series have from manufacturers are because one team or driver has dominated enough in the series that people are constantly talking about them in the showrooms so they are able to sell some extra cars and decide to show their support of the team by offering them parts discounts or financial rewards in the way of winning bonuses (Mazda in the Speed Touring Car Series). Ask any of the teams and 90% of their season budget is still comming from corporate sponsorship not factory backing. Except for a few small efforts there are no factory backed teams running any of these series. And BTW most of the time it looks like they are factory backed it's usualy because of one dealership, not the manufacturer (Lexus in Grand-Am Cup, Ferrari in ALMS).
Lastly, these series already exist in huge numbers at your local tracks. SCCA, NASA and FIA all run club, amateur and semi pro events all over the place. They do run plenty of stock categories and seperate the cars according to price/performance range. Chances are because it's not on TV that you, like manufacturers have just never bothered to check it out. It does provide exciting close racing in a relaxed environment. Here's a link to Valvoline Runoffs which are the culmination of a season of racing for amateurs at one special of event in Mid Ohio. This link shows the results and photos for all classes and you can see that the cars range from nearly bone stock SSC, SSB to tube frame racers GT1 and GT2. http://www.scca.org/amateur/club_rac...lts/index.html
The SCCA classes are base almost purely on performance (lbs/hp ratio), price and production numbers have almost nothing to do with classification. If it did, do you think that the Integra would be in the same class as BMW 3 series or the Audi S4? Or a Camaro to a Ferrari 3 series?
Last edited by mhoward1; Dec 18, 2003 at 10:50 AM.
Thread Starter
350Z-holic
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From: NC
fanatic6711
you are exactly right. There is no way a series like this could start unless it had major backing and a interested audience. It can get a good foot hold at the grassroots level though. Maybe paired with a more popular series to begin with.
you are exactly right. There is no way a series like this could start unless it had major backing and a interested audience. It can get a good foot hold at the grassroots level though. Maybe paired with a more popular series to begin with.
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From: Canada
Sorry, sorry didn't mean to step on your toes. I re-read my post and realized I sounded like a bit of an a$$.
Your definately right, if it could grab on at the grassroots level then I think a series could evolve. I still don't think there would be much involvement from any manufacturer though and I still don't think they would make many production changes due to results of these races. Too many other factors to consider.
Up here in the Pacific Northwest the ICSCC is the biggest of the governing bodies. ICSCC has 10 production categories and although we have 5 GT classes they usualy are out only one group a weekend. Although it's still grouped lbs/hp this allows for much closer competition brackets and our Integra's don't race with our BMW's.
Your definately right, if it could grab on at the grassroots level then I think a series could evolve. I still don't think there would be much involvement from any manufacturer though and I still don't think they would make many production changes due to results of these races. Too many other factors to consider.
Up here in the Pacific Northwest the ICSCC is the biggest of the governing bodies. ICSCC has 10 production categories and although we have 5 GT classes they usualy are out only one group a weekend. Although it's still grouped lbs/hp this allows for much closer competition brackets and our Integra's don't race with our BMW's.
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350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: NC
Originally posted by digerydingo
Sorry, sorry didn't mean to step on your toes. I re-read my post and realized I sounded like a bit of an a$$.
Sorry, sorry didn't mean to step on your toes. I re-read my post and realized I sounded like a bit of an a$$.
Your definately right, if it could grab on at the grassroots level then I think a series could evolve. I still don't think there would be much involvement from any manufacturer though and I still don't think they would make many production changes due to results of these races. Too many other factors to consider.
I think manufactures would only enter if they had something to prove. Like I think right now you would have no problem with Subaru or Mistu with a series like this, heck Subaru already sponsors many SCCA events. The question would be would the other makers dare to put their reputations on the line?
If you had the money for advertising, it would be funny to place a dare out to the manufacturers to compete..
Up here in the Pacific Northwest the ICSCC is the biggest of the governing bodies. ICSCC has 10 production categories and although we have 5 GT classes they usualy are out only one group a weekend. Although it's still grouped lbs/hp this allows for much closer competition brackets and our Integra's don't race with our BMW's.
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350Z-holic
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From: NC
Ok,
I aquired and tried to built the $25K class in SCGT and ran a few races just for kicks.
Here's the cars than ran (in A-Z Order):
Acura RSX
Chevy Z28
Dodge SRT-4
Ford Focus SVT
Ford Mustang GT
Honda Civic Si
Mazda Miata 1.8T
Mini Cooper
Nissan Sentra SE-R
Subaru WRX
VW Gti (1.8T)
And just for kicks:
1972 Datsun 240Z (upped to 180 HP).
I tried to make sure the vehicle settings were as close to stock as possible. The results were intersting and also the way I thought they were.
On long Open tracks the Camaro Dominated, opening up large gaps on the straight aways. On Mildly tight course with smaller straights, the WRX came into it's own. And on the Really tight courses the Miata and Mini Cooper where fighting it out. They real fun part was how close the racing was in many cases and if the lead car (even the Z28 on open courses) made a mistake, it was another model who won. Certain cars were not competitive as expected, but there were at 5 that could when at any time (including the 2100 lbs 240Z).
it was actually entertaining to watch, even for a Computer Generated race.
I aquired and tried to built the $25K class in SCGT and ran a few races just for kicks.
Here's the cars than ran (in A-Z Order):
Acura RSX
Chevy Z28
Dodge SRT-4
Ford Focus SVT
Ford Mustang GT
Honda Civic Si
Mazda Miata 1.8T
Mini Cooper
Nissan Sentra SE-R
Subaru WRX
VW Gti (1.8T)
And just for kicks:
1972 Datsun 240Z (upped to 180 HP).
I tried to make sure the vehicle settings were as close to stock as possible. The results were intersting and also the way I thought they were.
On long Open tracks the Camaro Dominated, opening up large gaps on the straight aways. On Mildly tight course with smaller straights, the WRX came into it's own. And on the Really tight courses the Miata and Mini Cooper where fighting it out. They real fun part was how close the racing was in many cases and if the lead car (even the Z28 on open courses) made a mistake, it was another model who won. Certain cars were not competitive as expected, but there were at 5 that could when at any time (including the 2100 lbs 240Z).
it was actually entertaining to watch, even for a Computer Generated race.
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Gruppe-S
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May 16, 2016 10:42 PM