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Modified Z1 front UCAs the way everyone was modifying the Kinetix arms. According to my LongAcre Digital camber gauge I can get -4.2 max on each side of the car:
Nice build and one for me to follow closely as I have an HR as well!
The recommended rake for a track is around 13 mm - I read that on this forum but I cannot remember where. Looking at your photo your car seems to be even lower than mine and I'm 649mm front and 659mm rear (measured from the floor to the top of each arch; r888 255/35/18 and Avon zzr 265/35/18). I only put my coilovers in a couple of weeks ago so I'm actually still trying to figure out what the best ride height would be.
Camber / toe: starting point would be 2 to 2.5 degrees of front camber with a little bit toe out. But it depends on what is going on with the balance. A bit camber in the back too like 1.7 or 2 and zero in usually.
For a more aggressive set up over -3 front camber, 1/8 or 1/16'' toe out, -2,6 rear camber, 1/8 or 1/16'' toe in (again based on what I've been reading on here).
I have OS Giken 1.5 waiting to be installad too but I still have to get the stub axle, the bearings and the shims - or at least that's what I think I need. What model did you get? Can you share the part numbers for everything needed for the installation?
Looking real good! Those bushings really work to tighten up the suspension.
BUT. Hope there is still time, the whiteline diff bushing is very notorious to fail on tracked Z's. The glue is not made correctly and the inner face separates from the bushing materials.
Nice build and one for me to follow closely as I have an HR as well!
Thanks!
Originally Posted by GodISmE
The recommended rake for a track is around 13 mm - I read that on this forum but I cannot remember where. Looking at your photo your car seems to be even lower than mine and I'm 649mm front and 659mm rear (measured from the floor to the top of each arch; r888 255/35/18 and Avon zzr 265/35/18). I only put my coilovers in a couple of weeks ago so I'm actually still trying to figure out what the best ride height would be.
Sounds good and similar to what I've heard! I've adjusted the front to 25.5" (which is ~649mm) with my weight in the drivers seat of the car (using workout plates). I've been told to run the around the same, or 0.5" taller (which is your 659), in the rear. In the picture it was low but I've got the rear at about 25.75" as of now, gotta get a coilover spanner wrench to really get to the 26" mark. My hammer and brass punch aren't getting it done as it's adding a bit of spring pre-load starting around 25.25"
The local auto-x club has a set of scales so I'll be doing a corner balance with these starting heights and adjust as necessary from there.
Originally Posted by GodISmE
Camber / toe: starting point would be 2 to 2.5 degrees of front camber with a little bit toe out. But it depends on what is going on with the balance. A bit camber in the back too like 1.7 or 2 and zero in usually.
For a more aggressive set up over -3 front camber, 1/8 or 1/16'' toe out, -2,6 rear camber, 1/8 or 1/16'' toe out (again based on what I've been reading on here).
I remember talking to Z1NONLY at the Bristol Match Tour and he said -3.5 front / 3.0 rear was working really well for him for camber. I think I might try starting there for auto-x as it's similar to what I ran in my E36 M3 (although I had a bit less in the rear and a bit more in the front).
For toe I usually do 0 deg in the front as I have to drive to events and any toe out causes a LOT of tire wear over just running 0 deg. I might try marking the adjustments so I can change to toe out at events and change back to 0 to drive home.
You really think toe out in the rear? I've always run a bit of toe-in on the rear of RWD cars, makes it more stable in the slaloms and transitions. I'll probably start with a slight toe-in and also mark a spot with 0 or maybe a bit of toe-out so I can adjust at events.
Originally Posted by GodISmE
I have OS Giken 1.5 waiting to be installad too but I still have to get the stub axle, the bearings and the shims - or at least that's what I think I need. What model did you get? Can you share the part numbers for everything needed for the installation?
For the base model HR 350 (ie open diff from the factory) you need to check the parts diagram via the local Nissan dealer using your VIN. Then OS Giken can tell you which model you need. There are two part numbers and one is specific to a base HR so you don't need any extra stub shafts.
If you have a non-base model and have the VLSD you're going to need a stub shaft but I have no idea which one, would be best to call OS Giken and confirm with them so you have the right part.
So since I have a base model HR with the open diff and both stub shafts are correct per the parts diagram (along with a phone call to OS Giken to confirm) I didn't need any extra stub shafts and got the NS-112HA OS Giken differential (instead of the NS-111HA). From there you just need new bearings for the diff.
I measured and checked everything before disassembly and then re-checked after assembly. My backlash and tooth pattern were both good so I did not need any shims other than re-using the ones that were with the stock differential. If your backlash or tooth pattern does not look good the OEM Manual has a detailed chart and explanation of which shims to buy and where to put them for each potential conidition.
Originally Posted by GodISmE
PS. What exhaust is this ?
Tomei Expreme Titianium. It's just the catback as I'm running stock headers/cats/y-pipe for now.
Sorry, toe in at the rear of course. Made a mistake when typing in.
You guys are running a lot of that camber. When I had -3 at the rear last time (very technical track), the tire temperatures on the outside were a lot lower than on the inside. So I am wondering why so much?
I got the one (OS Giken diff.) for DE but I was told (Adam at RCA in Chicago) that it could easily be converted to fit in HR. I just need to find out how now. I'm no mechanic so I don't even know what that stub shaft looks like!
Sorry, toe in at the rear of course. Made a mistake when typing in.
You guys are running a lot of that camber. When I had -3 at the rear last time (very technical track), the tire temperatures on the outside were a lot lower than on the inside. So I am wondering why so much?
Probably because auto-cross and not track events. I ran -3.7F/-2.1R on my old E36 and it did good on both auto-x and track. If -3.0R leaves me wishing for more traction out of corners I'll adjust to less camber and try again, I might even adjust between auto-x and any HPDE/PDX events that I attend.
I remember talking to Z1NONLY at the Bristol Match Tour and he said -3.5 front / 3.0 rear was working really well for him for camber. I think I might try starting there for auto-x as it's similar to what I ran in my E36 M3 (although I had a bit less in the rear and a bit more in the front).
For toe I usually do 0 deg in the front as I have to drive to events and any toe out causes a LOT of tire wear over just running 0 deg. I might try marking the adjustments so I can change to toe out at events and change back to 0 to drive home.
You really think toe out in the rear? I've always run a bit of toe-in on the rear of RWD cars, makes it more stable in the slaloms and transitions. I'll probably start with a slight toe-in and also mark a spot with 0 or maybe a bit of toe-out so I can adjust at events.
1/16" toe-in rear and 1/16" toe-out front was working really well for me.
I ran a BRZ in CS with toe-out on the rear at Dixie a few years ago and it was TERRIBLE. (could not use the throttle out of turns) I was way off the pace on day one. I convinced the car's owner to change the rear to a little toe-in for day two and made up enough of the gap to finish second.
My brother used to run an STi. Rear toe-out and spacers on the front wheels were tricks they used to make those powerful boats turn. We don't have those problems on the Z though. (particularly once you get some camber on the front of the car.)
Toe-in has always seemed to help stabilize the car for me in transitions (slaloms). I've been told taking the toe-in towards 0, or even some toe-out, will help the car rotate mid corner but then you also become loose in transitions.
This is what I've felt in my personal RWD cars, someone correct if I'm wrong.
I never ran toe-out on the back of my Z and don't recall driving other people's Z's that had toe out in the back, so I can't A/B for the Z.
However, that BRZ's toe out turned the gas pedal into "rotate" pedal out of corners....when I was trying to power out of the corners. I had to back off the trottle right when I would normally want full throttle.
Next day, a little toe-in on the same car allowed me to get on the throttle early and often....and generally stay in the throttle more.
I got my alignment done this week, pretty happy with the results
The front camber is hard to adjust on the rack with the Z1 UCAs as you have to pull the wheel off. I left the camber alone on the rack and adjusted when I got home using my digital LongAcre gauge. While the LongAcre might not be number exact the difference between two measurements is pretty spot on. So I took the right front wheel off and adjusted the ball joint out one full rotation. This changed the longacre gauge by ~0.3 degrees. In theory this should be in the 3.5 range to match the left front.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the caster difference. I need to talk to Z1 and see how many rotations can be different between the front and rear mount before problems arise. I think I could get the caster on the right front to make the left front using this method.
While getting on and off the alignment rack I bent the front of the W-brace. I've got another one on order to replace it. I need to fab up some wood extenders for the alignment rack I use before I go back.
The clutch pedal also started acting funny pulling on and off the rack. I tried to bleed it without much luck. I ended up tracing it down to the master cylinder. I replaced it last night and I've got a normal clutch pedal again.
After all this I'm finally planning my first auto-x this weekend Hoping the used RE71R tires I bought still have some life left in them. They were rain tires for a DSP BMW so they look much better than most RE71R tires that would have been used in the dry.
Also hoping the auto-x will help the break-in on the OS Giken
Yeah, the master cylinder goes down very quickly after spirited driving in HR. I replaced mine a few weeks ago and it has fixed the "pedal to the floor" symptom.
Big camber with conservative toe settings. Let us know how it went
I'm hitting the Ring on the 2nd October, can't wait!
I went up to Huntsville over the weekend and took the Z for it's inaugural auto-x outing at the TAC/TVR event #7.
I ended up 1st in class (STU had 8), 10th RAW, and 17th PAX out of the 124 entries. I coned my last run that would have gotten me to 9th RAW and 9th PAX based on the scratch time.
I got faster as the day went on and with more seat time as one would expect with a new vehicle. There's definitely more in it how it sits. I don't have enough time in it to make a decision on any real changes so the damper and sway bar settings will stay as is for at least 3 or 4 more events while I learn to drive it as it reacts different than my old STU prepped E36 M3.
I have some more upgrades planned for the future but those will wait while I get some seat time. I have Brembo calipers at home already purchased but need to work on rotors and pads. At this point I'm just on some cheap Advanced Auto pads with the stock base model brakes.
Finally my old STU car (E36 M3) was there and I beat it on my first outing so that's a small win.
Were you happy with these toe settings? I'm on -0.05/0.10 degrees on each side and the car is turning a bit too much for my taste (on a normal road). I'm wondering if it's because of the camber (-3) or this front toe-out?
09-13-2016, 07:35 AM
Hoping the used RE71R tires I bought still have some life left in them. They were rain tires for a DSP BMW so they look much better than most RE71R tires that would have been used in the dry.