christoc

I've been poking around your site for the last couple of weeks. Based on some of the advice I got here, I may be spending a lot more time on your site since you seem to be leading the charge with a BS car with mods.

 

I can personally attest to the Z's worthiness in my Region (Stl)
The other cars in the BS category did well but the z seems to have their measure. RX-8's don't seem sorted or the drivers are just coming up to speed. S200s seem very good on very tight course but if the course has any type of run the Z seems to catch up. Basically though its all driver and fun. So have some! Personally I am skittish about letting my baby play at the Auto-x and use my Impreza instead. II did get a little tear jerk when I saw christoc do a doughnut in the middle of the course sunday. What a sight!. Nice job sorry about the time on that run though.

Time from the last auto x for BS class
1t 02 350Z DNF 49.862+1 49.349 49.349
2t 03 350Z 52.450 52.840 51.764 51.764
3t 00 S2000 54.413 52.240 52.437 52.240
4. 03 350Z 52.633+1 67.132+2 52.511 52.511
5. 93 MR2 TUR 53.933 52.734 52.693 52.693
6. 04 RX8 DNF DNF 55.651 55.651
7. 04 RX8 56.882+2 56.652 56.697+1 56.652
8. 01 Z3 65.128 63.373 63.035 63.035

 

The biggest factor in Autocross I see in my 1st year of competition is the driver and the car is secondary. Take a great car like the Z and give to a newbie like me and you get a so so run. Give the same Z to a great driver and you shake your head wondering how they did it. For some reason the club I belong to has great drivers and I seldom get close but if I go out of town I can occasionally trophy.

This is going to be a long season but I'm enjoyng every minute!

 

Shujun, That donut was an angry one I stopped on course because I thought a course worker was flagging me to stop. When I realized he wasn't I decided to just have fun the rest of the run. I had it in second and just kept it floored when I started to go around hoping I'd be able to go completely around. That spin caused me to DNF, but it was fun.

 

I'm not a drift fan but after seeing that donut I'd like to see the 350z in some drift action. So what do you think of the RX-8s in the B-Stock class. Do you think that the cars are as competitive as everyone assumes?

 

I think the RX-8s are too underpowered, IMHO

I could be proven wrong though, won't be certain till someone sets one up and competes competitively on a national level

 

I've been interested in how the RX-8 performs in A/X competition. It certainly drives well when flopping it around on the street, but that doesn't equate to how it will perform under A/X conditions. It does a wonderful job of turning in to a corner... and feels nice everywhere.

The RX pilots are going to have the same problem Z pilots had last year... and some we still have. They use 18 X 8 wheels, so they'll have the same limited choice of tire sizes. They don't have Konis yet. I haven't been visiting any RX sites, but I think it takes some time to figure out set-ups for a new design and they probably haven't had enough time to do that.

Horsepower wise (238), it compares with the two top cars at Nationals last year (S2000 = 240, Boxster = 228), I'm not sure it's underpowered. The Boxster sure is a pain in the butt for such an underpowered little pooch.

But one has to wonder why they thought the Studebaker Avanti needed to come back... let alone with four doors. Seriously, I understand the utilitarian virtues of the RX-8. If such a car brings more competitors, great... if its sales encourage Nissan to add seats and doors to a Z (not probable)... bad.

BC

 

I testdrove it with two extra people inside... It's fun to drive and doesnt feel underpowered. Power curve is smooht, very much like Z. I haven't seen one at autox yet, but I'm sure the'll be there soon.

 

I just got back from AutoX today (my third time in the Z). I've been running in the rookie bracket, but I'd be in B-stock otherwise as I'm completley stock. I have to say that after my third time, I can't say I've very impressed with my Z's performance in AutoX.

The courses have all been pretty small with a number or tight turns which doesn't favor the Z. The biggest problem I have with the Z is the understeer - It just plows through many of the sharp turns. It's definitely not easy to drive - I have to work the steering pretty fiercely to get a good line.

I'm definitely not competitive with the S2k's unfortunately. Personally, I think they should drop the Z down a class due to the weight and bad understeer or move all S2k's up to A-Stock.

Today, it looked like I was understeering worse than some FWD cars.

BTW, I'm sure much of my experience has much to do with the fact I'm a novice driver, but it's just not a very fun car to AutoX. I drove my friend's Evo and that was an absolute blast and I ran a full 3 seconds faster.

 

I'm of the camp, and probably the only person in this camp, that most of the pushing problems have are caused by two things.

1. Overdriving the corners
2. Differ tire sizes, I'm not a fan off small front large rears.

I can make my car push, drive hard as snot into a corner and try to turn

Running the setup I have now I do not find myself running into understeer(push) problems, but I also come from driving a large Z-28, and am used to braking hard and powering out of everything.

 

cusdaddy,

Like christoc, I also have most of my A/X years with F-Body GM products and Corvettes... so pointing and squirting the Z made some sense to me. I have completed most of the allowable B-Stock modiifications and my Z doesn't oversteer like it did in stock tune.

And I'd have to agree with christoc, I can still MAKE my Z understeer... but it rewards me when I don't. With the stock RE040s, I traded grip for better handling by running low pressure in the rear tires. I found that running 37lbs front (low in its own rites), and 26lbs rear... gave the 100% stock Z (with RE040s), less tendancy to understeer.

Down give up on the Z as an A/X'er... Nissan as dialed in a lot of "safety" characteristics into the car... we just have to unwind some of them, since we're not the typical driver.

BC

 

The excessive understeer in an autocross environment is a fact of life with the Z. Naturally, overdriving the turns will only make it worse, so patience and a line-adjustment is in order to maximize its competitiveness. Brian's tire pressure adjustment is an example of a necessary work-around, but it is exactly that: a work-around. The car pushes; end of story. Still, I am not as pessimistic as some.

Overall, the Z is quite good, and if one can plumb its other traits -- transients, power, and overall handling, it can do very well. I like, for example, Carter Thompson's chances because' while others pointed with guarded optimism to his 6th(?) place finish at Nationals, I prefer to take note of his being only a few tenths behind the winner. It may never be a B Stock champion, but it can be a potent and exhilarating autocross car nonetheless.

 

BA Cutler: Thanks for the tips.. I was running 37 in both the front and back wheels, but I'll try taking the back wheels down to 26 for the next event.

I think my experiences have much to do with the course I run. It's VERY tight compared to other events I have seen. I beat the 2 C5 Vette's that were there by 1 second and I beat 2 F-Bodies by 3 seconds, so I guess it wasn't half bad, but I just couldn't keep up with the lighter cars.

 

cusdaddy,

Try taking them down to 30lbs and work your way down from there. Some people get nervous running below 32lbs. Lateapex is correct, this is a compromise... but you'll notice more balance to the car. When I ran my car without any B-stock allowables, I figured I couldn't deal with the John Deere plowing tendencies... I knew I was giving up grip for balancing out the car... but without making this compromise, I was just getting frustrated with the car.

The fact that folks like CT and Lateapex are A/Xing Zs is fair evidence that the car has serious possibilities. I'm enjoying the heck out of my Z. I've installed Konis, Hoosiers, a 350Evo front bar and an exhaust system... I'm just a tick behind the class leaders... and getting closer every event.

The big thing I find myself envious of an Evo owner over is... the ability to comfortably load wheels/tires and all the A/X gear and still see out of their car ; )

BC

 

BC,

Forgive the total newbie question here - but why not go up on the front tire pressure (i.e. 40 PSI with 35 in the rear) rather than lowering the rear pressure? I thought the general idea was to run more pressure than on the street for a stiffer tire.

Also, does it matter if we're running stock tires, 17" vs 18", etc?

Thanks,
Dave

 

Dave,

No, that's not a newbie question... the higher pressures up front just seemed to increase the understeer problem. Usually, running more pressure works in terms of handling and keeps the tire from rolling over on the sidewall. That's not the situation with the RE040 in 18". I can not speak to the behavior of the 17" tires, just the 18"... I don't have any experience with the 17" tire.

I'm sure the same air pressure manipulation with the 17" would have a similar influence over the Z's handling... but at a slighty different level of pressure. If someone tells you to mark your rear 18s to measure tread usage (roll over)... just smile and go about your business... you'll never get the rear tires to use the full tread surface... at 26lbs, you'll still have a half an inch left over... and the car becomes rather wiggly back there at 26lbs... less would probably be very undesirable.

BC

 

So has anyone tired the 350Z in SP yet?

I've seen ST and SM ones..

 

Agreed. IMO, proper driving and equal front to rear tires make the Z a great handler. Understeer has not been much of an issue for me. While the sways have helped, (full stiff up front +63% and med setting rear +92%) it's not been as dramatic or required as you can tell from the settings.

Overall, the car is getting quicker. A couple of events ago (event #3) I led for most of the day and eventually came within 2/10ths of FTD out of 44 cars. This past Sunday wasn't as good as the Regional (Montreal) members paid a visit - but I still came within 2.5 seconds of a high 52 second FTD (I had two runs with cones that were 6/10ths faster so the car still has time in it).

My biggest issue (besides the lack of R compound - but that's easy to fix) is the Hotchkis springs and sways with OEM shocks. It's just too soft in most turns, and "floaty" in the higher speed slaloms. While I know that shocks are required, I'm trying to sort out ideal spring rates which I figure will also have a huge impact on the handling.

Also, my Super Stock class allows modifications to the LSD providing I stay within 6 prep points. If I give up the front sway bar I can upgrade the LSD. I find the viscous OEM LSD takes a couple of moments to engage mid corner. Typically if the course has a tight start, the @ss suddenly comes out in the middle of a slow tight corner without throttle provocation. It's catchable but not linear and predictable. It seems to occur only in the first couple of turns then becomes more consistent as the run continues. I'm debating if it's worth the $900 USD investment. I wonder how much the OEM unit will deteriorate over time - especially with future R compounds.

Suggestions or comments to my thoughts are welcome as I'd like to get the car as sorted as possible before jumping into R compounds.

 

BC,

Now you've got me totally confused. I've seen several sites that state that increasing the tire pressure in the front will decrease understeer. Also, they say you can lower the rear pressure for the same effect.

Here are couple for example:

http://catalog.com/susq/other/stuning.htm#tires

http://www.wtrscca.org/tech.htm

 

Any car is competitive Regionally. Saying you won BS or FTDed regionally means nothing as far as comparing cars in a class goes, there is to much possibility of difference between drivers at a regional level to make a comparison based on the car relevant at all.

The 350z is an awesome car but I think there is very little change of one winning BS nationally. The s2000 or possibly a boxster is the car to have nationally.