Just curious, how do 350z's compare on the track compared to Mustangs, z28s, Evos, and STis?

I know, driver....depends on the track...etc...

A bit about me - I'm thinking about getting a 350z Enth. I currently have a 2000 Mustang GT with some light suspension modifications (spring/shocks). I like it's looks, performance, relibility, refinement, etc of the Z, but just want to know if I would be able to keep up with my Mustang friends that I am equal with now on the track.
One of the things that concerns me is that at the last two HPDE sessions I was at, I was consistantly faster than the 2 350z bases that were there. I'm not looking to win anything, just to keep pace. I could easily write them off as slower drivers (it was the slow class), but it does stick in my mind.

 

The 350Z's brakes aren't up to par, unless you get the Track model. If you buy the Enthusiast, you'll be looking at a StopTech or Wilwood big brake kit in your very near future. Factor that into your purchase.

The Z's chassis and suspension are significantly better than the Mustang chassis, though.

Engine power-wise, you'll find that the Mustang GT and 350Z have similar powerbands. Nice and torquey for good power exiting the corner. The 6-speed transmission is a plus as well.

 

Really the Z is much better balanced for a track than a Mustang and Z28. The problem with the tracking the Z is the brakes and its weight. The Z has pretty close to even weight distribution so putting Hoosier 245/40/18 all around with a 5 psi more in the front than rear made my car neutral. The problem is the car is heavy so the tires don't last very long when the car is pushed to the limit. Also the stock brakes are bad except for the Brembo's that come on the track. The brakes don't hold up so they kill your lap times. I had to put a 13" brake kit and it made a huge difference. I was at a 1.6 mile course this weekend and I got to run a 1:14 lap where an E46 M3 ran a best of 1:20 and a GT3 ran a best of 1:15. I would have got top time but my Hoosier let go in near 140 mph in practice. If I would buy another car to race I would buy either a track model Z, Porsche 911, or Corvette Z06. Those cars should be ready to race and be competitive with minimal changes.

 

You know comparing regional auto-x times means nothing. Driver ability at that level can be night and day.

The 350z is a decent auto-x car. I think it will be the car to have next year in BS if the S2000 is moved to AS. If the S2000 stays the 350z is just another decent car in BS. Other than BS you will get destroyed in any other class the car is legal in. Maybe not regionally since regionally it is 90% driver 10% car, but nationally the 350z wouldn't stack up in any other class.

 

Well, thanks for the responses. My Mustang does surprisingly well on track days. It may not be the most elegant solution, but it did the job. I just want a stylish, reliable car that can keep up with my friends.

I've decided Auto-x isn't worth it. I chewed up a lot of tires (maybe it was the driver :-) ) for the time spent having fun. The bang for the buck isn't there. Anyway, I agree 90% driver.


I've heard brakes a few times.... Will the stock brakes make it 20 minutes on street tires w/ decent pads on an average course? I can stand a bit of fade, but I don't want to start braking before the 300. Keep in mind this is just for HPDEs.

What type of diffy does the 350 have? Clutch based or Gear based? Does it need to be rebuilt? If I keep the stang, it would cost me about 400 to rebuild it (inc labor) and last 3 years. I'm hoping for something better out of the next car.

Is the track worth it for the track? I see the brakes. I don't see spending 7k on brakes and wheels though. I'd rather have decent brakes on 17's for cheaper tire replacements.

 

I wasn't running in an AutoX and I wasn't comparing regional times. I was talking about being on a track at the same time with a BMW M3 and 35 other cars and running the fastest time. I know there are big differences in driver ability. I was saying it was the car because I know I am not a very good driver and the some guys out there that had their SCCA racing license and had very moddified cars and I set the fastest lap time in practice that no one beat, even in the actual event. As a matter of fact there is two other Z's that usually run and we usually finish 123 in our class and our fighting for over all top time.

I would say it is worth it. One of the Z's that compete with me is a track and he has never had brake problems. Myself and the other Z have had many brake problems. I have spent plenty of money rebuilding the brake calipers and replacing rotors and pads that the extra money for the track would have been worth it. Also, the wheels are lighter and the 05 track will have more horsepower.


I would say that depends. I know on the courses we run that don't last. PM me you email and I will send you a video of the course we run so you can compare the track you will be going to.


I don't know, but I haven't had to rebuild my yet.

 

It really depends on your skill level and how hard you push the car. As you pick up more experience, you're going to find that the smaller brakes simply don't have the thermal capacity to stop the car efficiently when they get real hot.

From the factory, we get a jelly-box (viscous) diff, which has an estimate lock-up ratio of 30%.

It's really up to you whether it's worth it or not. In retrospect, it'd probably be cheaper to get a base model, upgrade the open diff to a Nismo clutch-type unit, get a Stoptech kit or buy the Brembos used off somebody else, and select your own wheel / tire combo. However, you normally can't do that through financing the car. But the Brembos compared to the smaller brakes are night and day on track. I don't regret my purchase whatsoever. Plus the Brembos have proven themselves in series such as T2 and the Grand Am Cup.

Hope this helps...

 

Plus the track just looks cool IMHO.

 

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the factory springs, shocks, and sway bars suck ***.

I tracked my 350 when it was stock, when it had S-Tune sway bars, and when it had the full S-Tune suspension (sway bars, shocks, and springs).

The car needs at least sway bars, IMO. The factory understeer is pretty bad.

Michael.

 

All modern cars from the factory have understeer for liability reasons.

 

Very true. The sway bars and playing with tire pressures in the Hoosiers helped me get rid of the understeer.

 

The Mustang comes from the factory with plow, not understeer. Also, suspension modifications really mean redesigning the suspension (funny though, the stick axle setups work the best).


Do the "goo" diffy's have heat related problems? Do you have to replace the "goo"?


How stiff does the s-tune ride? I live in pothole land mind you. Also, I have to be able to drive a date around in the car with out her complaining.

 

Well, S-Tune does mean "Street Tune" so it should be ok for the street.

At least, I have no problems w/ the suspension being stiff. Your female companion(s), on the other hand, may not particularly care for it (if they are well endowed, then the suspension may work in your favor going over potholes ). I recommend finding somebody in your area w/ that setup and see for yourself.

If all else fails, then just the S-Tune sway bars (or whatever brand sway bars) will make a big difference. They will certainly eliminate a great deal of the factory understeer. The S-Tune springs and shocks was just icing on the cake.

Michael.

 

To get an idea of the needs of the Z for the track, check out our project car page at:
http://www.ntechengineering.com/inde...ction=datemenu

It has some useful info.

The track model brakes are better than the other stock brakes, but still not really up to the task of FAST track work, at full street car weight, using tires with grip. The diff will need replacing with grippy tires as well. Sway bars are a nice first step for the suspension.

 

So to answer my question, how does the z-lap compared to other cars in the price class?

 

against an rx8, hope you have a lot of straights on the track. they're both pretty similar, i've had the privelage to drive both cars at willow springs. each are quite different and quite fun in their own ways.

 

hmmm...driver is everything. at the local track (MSR), i've run down '400hp' evos, C5s, some Porsches (911/996), a STi or two , a ferrari 355, and other Z's (heheh, you know who you are)...

if you are a benchracer, and I confess that I am too, we are at a serious disadvantage. but if you drive, work on on scoring those 'big' kills, it makes the Z feel worth it...

 

You can debate this all day long. There are numerous comparisons in Car and Driver, Road and Track and Motor Trend running the Z against other cars in the class. If I remember correctly, the latest one compared the Z, S2000, Audi TT and Mustang (Cobra I think). There have been other tests against the Porsche 911, Corvette Z06 etc. Looking at one of those tests will give you the best idea, since they were probably all driven by the same people, same day and same course.

 

You can get away with just sways...the only reason for the S-Tunes is for the additional negative camber (which can be achieved with springs alone, a bad way to do it though).

-Rich

 

Rich, I can't believe you would recommend such a thing. Upgrading to stiffer springs while keeping the stock shocks is a bad, bad, bad idea. I figure lowering springs/shocks would not only give you a bit of negative camber up front, but also a lower center of gravity and resistance to lean.

Then again, what do you care, you short timer. :-D

Michael.