I have 19" wheels with 34 offset at the rear and I added 15mm spacers so now I'm at 19 offset. I'll be installing Hotchicks springs this week and was wondering if i'll face any camber issues due to my aggressive offset and the drop?

I'm a noob when it comes to suspension and stuff, so bear with me!


peace.

 

The offset change doesn't affect camber.

You might have rubbing issues. We'll need to know what size tires you have on these rims.

 

I have 275/35 at the back.

 

Although I am a newbie myself and I am not lowered -yet-, I do not think you will have problems with rubbing. I am running 275/35/19's +22 and there's plenty of space everywhere (1.75" approximately on top). Hotchkis will probably drop you 1" max.

About the camber with these springs, that is a great question that I would love an answer for...

Good luck with the drop!
C.

 

Get rid of the spacers.....Not worth it, proformance wise.

 

an offset change absolutely affects alignment settings - just like a tire change does. As you lower the car, we know that camber becomes more negative and toe in creeps in. The lower you go, the more this problem persists. Now, as you move the wheel and tire further out on the hub, this problem becomes even more exaggerated

Unless you run very skinny tires out back, or run a tire that runs a bit small (ie a Toyo) yes you will rub, and you'll need to roll the fenders

 

 

Moving the wheel and tire further out on the hub does NOT change any angle or geometry of anything.

Of course the car will sit slightly lower when you use spacers, but still its camber and toe angles remain the same.

The key point is the angles, not the sitting height.

I don't understand why you are saying that.

 

next time you are on an alignment rack, bring spacers with you and see how the camber angles and resulting toe angles change as you move the wheel further out on the hub. You are changing the scrub radius by moving the wheel further and further out on the hub, and this has a cause and effect change with respect to camber.


Spacers do not cause the car to sit any lower either...so not sure why you are saying that

 

I believe the idea behind the lowering of the car with reduced offset comes from the reduced leverage of the suspension from a longer lower suspension member. The added scrub radius you’re referring to.

Would that be enough to throw the car out of whack? I don’t think so. It’s commonly accepted that a drop less than 1in won’t require a camber adjustment.

Would it cause rubbing by itself? I don’t know. Negative camber can’t harm in that respect.

 

you might think that it isn't but try it, and you'll see for yourself

I am not posting this because it sounds good - I've actually sat there for hours on the alignment machine doing these things myself with the same exact wheel, different offsets, measuring and remeasuring, in prep for track events.

 

How much of a camber change have you measured?

Was the ride height measured with and without the spacers? Did it vary? Any correlation between that and the camber change?

 

I'd have to go back and look through my notes. I do not use spacers, but I can effectuate the same change on my car as I have the same wheel, same width, same tires, with various offsets to choose from. I don't altrer my rideheight from street to track. The only difference was hanging the wheel further out onto the hub.

Heck, even doing an alignment with improperly worn tires will through the results off - all the alignment is measuring is the interaction of the tire with the ground.

 

The drawing is not a precise illustration, but this is what I meant with negative camber and spacer.

 

I agree with z1 performance that alignment will be affected by offset. The further you push the wheels out relative to the hub, the more camber there will be. If you read up on some suspension physics then you will see how this is the case.

 

I think I might be understanding both sides of the discussion. From what I can see, wheel spacers wont change the camber angle but will change the ride/vehicle height. Aggressive cambers will result in more noticeable ride height for the same offset.

Edit: Bananax already said it.

 

I think you have it backwards, spacers will affect camber angle, which will in turn affect ride height. As negative(or positive camber) increase there will be a slight change in ride height, but won't be very noticeable. Go as the lowrider guys who run those extremely low offset wheels if their camber is affected, or go take a look at them, the wheels angle in like crazy even without a drop.

 

please tell me how in the world extending something straight would bend it and make some angle which did not exist.

In other word, if it's bent, it's not extended straight and that's not what spacers are supposed to do.

 

Here is my quick drawing of how the suspension works. If you exaggerate the spacers then it will be easier to see how it affects the suspension geometry.

By pushing the width of the wheels away from the car body without changing the weight, you are increasing the torque applied to the lower control arm/hub and thus compressing the spring further. If the resting height of the spring is lower than the camber must increase. Think if you were to jack up the car, as you decrease the weight applied to the wheel, the spring uncompresses and pushes the suspension down, but not straight down, but in an arc, the opposite occurs when you place your jack underneath your suspension and jack it up, the wheel doesn't go straight up, but angles inward the further up you jack it. The ground supplies a force normal to the point the tire touches, but as you increase the distance from the pivot point of the suspension, you increase the torque applied to the rotational component of the suspension and thus increase the load on the springs which in turn increases camber/lowers ride height. Hope that explains it well enough, but please ask for clarification on any points I didn't make clear enough

 

I wonder how many different ways we'll have to repeat that before everybody gets it !