jak

Just an FYI for all you guys and gals that are looking at purchasing one of the many available front camber arms for our cars. I just purchased the SPL solution for my car and it is a well built piece.
Bottom line here is to add any positive camber to our cars to correct for the negative camber induced by lowering, the inner fender must be cut or modified with ANY of the available arms.

The thing is the spindle needs to be pushed out and there is no room in the "pocket" provided in the design of the car for the arm to move up and down in. The more you are lowered the more modification will be needed.
Thought I would share since I believe there are a lot of people on the board that are going to assume the buying a camber arm is all there is to it to solve the excessive negative camber issue on lowered cars.

I can post pics if anyone is interested.

Jeff

Michla22

iTrader: (11)

Cusco's on the way - interested....

tig488

iTrader: (18)

please post pics

TruBluZ

iTrader: (30)

I have had my Cusco A Arms on for almost a year with no inner fender modifications. Please post pics.

dklau33

iTrader: (17)

You guys with Cuscos need to remember that the positive adjustment range on the cuscos isn't that much compared to the SPL, SPC, 350Evo etc.

Rickdogg

iTrader: (234)

I have been running cuscos for quite some time dumped really low. However, I am running -3 camber up front. Although I am running pretty negative up front, I have never heard of anyone else with the problem that you are describing

jak

OK...here is the deal as it relates to the SPL Arms which I own. First some background on the setup:

1. Car is lowered at the front 17mm
2. I am running -.7 degrees of camber, within the "normal" spec of the car.

In regards to camber with the SPLs or any other camber arm including the Cuscos, with camber set at the "normal" spec on a car lowered, (in my case 17mm), The arm will be longer than the stock arm and will not pivot up into the pocket without hitting metal. This metal frame or "inner fender" is easily bent by a hammer. In my case 1/4" to 3/8" had to be pounded out of the way to get clearance. TOYKILLA had the same issue with his Cusco arms and I believe he just cut metal away. The lower the car, the longer the arm needs to be to correct camber, and the more metal that needs to be moved.

In regards to the SPL arms ONLY. The design of the SPL arm is such that the height at the spindle is greater than the height of the stock arm at the spindle. This is due to the jam nut design SPL uses at the top of the spindle. At a 17mm drop big bumps or hard cornering with slight bumps will cause the top of the spindle to hit the frame. SPC, Kinnetix, & Cusco are designed more like the stock arm and will probably have an additional 1" of suspension travel so at this ride height or lower it most likely is not an issue.

The only solutions for the SPL arms to increase suspension travel and/or eliminate the top of the spindle hitting the frame are:

1. The car can not be lowered more than 17mm. Higher would be better.
2. Cut a hole creating an additional pocket in the frame. I am looking into this.
3. Stiffer spring rates at the front. I am using 448s.

The bottoming out with the SPL arms at a 17mm drop is tolerable for me and I may just let it go. I don't see myself lowering anymore so that is not an issue. For the most part on normal driving there isn't an issue but people interested in these arms that want a drop more than 17mm will have problems. Adding negative camber instead of positive camber will help but the design of our car is such that any substantial drop with regardless of camber setting will create an issue.

Jeff

redlude97

iTrader: (11)

Sounds like one of the pretty common problems with front camber kits, same thing happens to preludes with low enough drops, the nut actually punches a hole through the inner fenderwall into the engine bay after bottoming out enough times

IAPDirect.com

iTrader: (1)

With regard to the current customers that have installed the SPC kit, they have not experienced this issue. Just an FYI.

tig488

iTrader: (18)

i know what hes speaking of, with the cuscos you cant get enough + camber to matter unless you modify them for more + camber, in that case the arm will rub the inner fenderwell. i dont know about other kits.

IAP, so if you adjust the SPC ones enough to get back in factory spec, there is no rubbing? doesnt seem that way, if Jak is correct, and since its his car, im sure he is.

oops, sorry, i noticed he said SPL, where you said SPC.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

I don't see how you can say this as a universal truth

I for one, did not touch my Cusco arms nor did I touch my inner fender liner or any other component of my suspension or body when installing my Cusco arms and with a roughly 2 inch drop (25.5 inches from center line of fender to the ground) and a 8.5 inch wheel, +20 offset and 245/40/18 tires, I can get down to 1.25 degrees on my front wheels if I so desire (I run more camber intentionally though)

How much camber adjustment you get before/after the arms is totally dependant on the rest of your setup, and what your specs were before the arms went in

jak

I was at -2.3 with the stock arms. I added 1.6 degrees of positive camber to get the car back to spec. 1.6 degrees translates to a lengthening of the arm OVER the stock length of about 3/4" (pushing the tire out at the top).

There is not enough room in the pocket of the inner fender well to obtain an extra 3/4" in length without hitting metal. Any kit would need to be lengthened 3/4" to correct the camber in this scenario and ANY kit that is 3/4" longer than stock will not clear the inner fender well pocket without hitting metal.

We are talking about changing the stock position of the spindle/hub at the top. It is true that tire diameter and the amount the car is lowered will affect HOW MUCH positive camber will be needed but any more than about .5 degrees of positive camber, (which translates into around 1/4" longer arm length over stock), all arms will hit. Again this issue isn't that big of a thing since the metal in this location is easily bent.

Regarding the seperate issue related to the SPL arm only, the lower the car the higher up into the fender well the upper link sits and the less suspension travel you will have to the top. The SPL arm will hit on the top of the spindle nut before the Cusco or SPC will due to there design. I doubt the Cusco or SPC solution would have this issue at equal ride heights.

Jeff

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

those are the details you should have put in your first post

now, why you would only want to run .7 degrees camber per side is a completely different issue - these cars LOVE camber

21112

iTrader: (2)

Might as well just post those pics.
Should clear up some confusion.

jak

I did. I said adding positive camber will require mods to the inner fender. It is irrelevant how much positive camber you want to add and what the final camber setting is if it is over .5 degrees positive.

I just thought I would share because many on this board including myself have the idea that they can lower their car and just buy an arm to bring the camber back to factory spec. This isn't true and although not specifically stated by the vendors it is implied that buying an arm will bring the camber back into spec (which most likely will require positive camber).

I think the members here should know clearly that positive camber can not be added to our car WITH ANY UPPER ARM without issues.

Running excessive negative camber and the related issues I agree is another topic that I did not intend to address with this thread.

I will try to get a picture of the arm and how it swings. I recommend that anyone purchasing arms to add positive camber should pull the wheel an remove the cotter key and nut on the spindle and freely swing the upper link up into the fender well. It will become very obvious once you see it.

Jeff

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Well, I added more than .5 degree to my car with the ride height and wheel/tire combo I posted above and did not change a thing to any other part of my car....went from ~2.1 before camber arms and can go down to ~1.25 if needed on my Cusco arms. I currently run them at ~1.8 degrees for the past 6 months or so and that's where I plan to leave them - zero mods to any part of my fender, or fender liner. I've played around with both higher and lower camber levels on my car periodically, and have found my current setup to be a perfect happy medium of turn in response, straight line tracking in wet and dry and tire wear.

So, as has been discussed many times, the amount of work you may or may not need to do is completely car specific -

jak

Sorry it took so long for the pictures but here they are. As you see the SPL arm is 1/2" taller so the car can not be lowered as much as other arms. You will also see that any positive camber will require mods to the metal.

Jeff

Everybodywildou

iTrader: (32)

It is just plastic where it will bottom out correct?

jak

No. It is hard steel and I can't bend it with a hammer. The sides where it hits is soft metal and can be bent with a hammer.

Jeff

Everybodywildou

iTrader: (32)

So is that what you suggest should be done if it comes to that? What kind of sounds does it make when you hit bumps? Is it like a thud?