Some new SPL stuff sneak peak
02-05-2007, 07:29 PM
#121
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Hey kuah, please hold a set of front & rear endlinks for me. I'll drive up to Austin later this week to pick them up. Also, I'll PM all the other members who are on the list to let them know that they are now available.
02-06-2007, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MoodDude
Hi, I am glad to see developement in our Z suspension. I love the fact that your incorporating sperical bearings (rod ends) in your designes. I don't claim to be a suspension expert, but there are a few questions about all the designs I see out there:
- Why are you not designing a sperical bearing on the other side of you linkages (both the rear lower and mid link) where it attaches to the hub carrier?
- Why are you not designing a sperical bearing on the other side of you linkages (both the rear lower and mid link) where it attaches to the hub carrier?
Originally Posted by MoodDude
- Don't you change the roll center, bump camber, and track change by changing the rod length to alter camber and toe? Is that not why the factory adjusts where the pivot point location is to adjust camber and toe?
- If you don't get the passanger and driver side linkage lengths the same, than won't you have different roll center, bump camber, and track change on both sides?
- If you don't get the passanger and driver side linkage lengths the same, than won't you have different roll center, bump camber, and track change on both sides?
As for camber gain, yes that is altered, however the situation there is not any different from shortening your front upper arm to dial in more static camber in front, when you alter that length your camber gain in front changes. For track use an increase in static camber will on average increase traction despite the changes to your camber gain.
We do still plan to eventually release our rear upper link, which will allow camber changes without affecting toe, track width and roll center. However the reason why we chose to release the lower links first is because the upper link cannot be adjusted without removing the wheel, the axles and wheels are in the way when you try to reach the upper link from the underside. This is an issue for most alignment shops...
Originally Posted by MoodDude
- How are you measuring or judging if you mid linkage (one that effects toe, which is the most important) is stiffer/stronger?
Originally Posted by MoodDude
I really like the fact that you are looking at using standard springs for the rear, so the cost of changing springs is cheaper! I also agree that trying to apply a standard coilover on the rear of our cars would cost more money than anyone is willing to spend since the structure to support it on our cars is not there!
02-06-2007, 06:10 AM
#123
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Originally Posted by z-u-later
Hey kuah, please hold a set of front & rear endlinks for me. I'll drive up to Austin later this week to pick them up. Also, I'll PM all the other members who are on the list to let them know that they are now available.
02-06-2007, 08:59 AM
#124
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Thanks for the Info.
Taking what you said, I am wondering if we can use your adjustable rods to improve the handling of the Z (besides the obvious camber and toe). That is using the stock adjustment for toe and camber along with your adjustable rods, we should be able to achieve the same numbers for camber and toe with different rod lengths. I know it is not much - like you said, but I bet we could move it about 1/2 to 3/4" (haven't measured it)at the toe/camber bolts. Therefore, could we increase performance greater than stock by increasing or decreasing the length of our rods (adjusting to achieve the same static camber/toe)?
Also, I think the largest improvements we can make to the Z is to get rid of our bushings and use spherical bearings like you are doing especially any linkage that can change toe.
Taking what you said, I am wondering if we can use your adjustable rods to improve the handling of the Z (besides the obvious camber and toe). That is using the stock adjustment for toe and camber along with your adjustable rods, we should be able to achieve the same numbers for camber and toe with different rod lengths. I know it is not much - like you said, but I bet we could move it about 1/2 to 3/4" (haven't measured it)at the toe/camber bolts. Therefore, could we increase performance greater than stock by increasing or decreasing the length of our rods (adjusting to achieve the same static camber/toe)?
Also, I think the largest improvements we can make to the Z is to get rid of our bushings and use spherical bearings like you are doing especially any linkage that can change toe.
Originally Posted by kuah
If the 350Z/G35 community responds well to our current products (ie. front & rear arms), we will eventually address every component of the suspension much like we did with the 300ZX/240SX. That will include the spherical bearing bushings for the spindle.
Keep in mind that the length changes in the rear arms for most street/track suspension settings will be very small, on the order of 1/4" or so, which was what it took to dial sfarrah's rear camber to 2.5deg. Therefore changes to roll center will be minimal, the length changes involved for camber/toe in the rear suspension is not enough to drastically alter the angles of the arms. The biggest change to roll center will come from changing your suspension height. Similarly the changes in track width will be relatively minor, especially relative to gross changes due to wheel offsets/tire widths.
As for camber gain, yes that is altered, however the situation there is not any different from shortening your front upper arm to dial in more static camber in front, when you alter that length your camber gain in front changes. For track use an increase in static camber will on average increase traction despite the changes to your camber gain.
We do still plan to eventually release our rear upper link, which will allow camber changes without affecting toe, track width and roll center. However the reason why we chose to release the lower links first is because the upper link cannot be adjusted without removing the wheel, the axles and wheels are in the way when you try to reach the upper link from the underside. This is an issue for most alignment shops...
Much like our 240SX/300ZX suspension, we simply over-design the part relative to the stock piece. We make sure the cross sections of our part are much larger than the stock part, which will guarantee its strength. If you look carefully at a stock arm you will find that it is actually pretty thin, especially at the clevis where it is possible to bend the arm by hand using pliers.
Changing the load structure is one thing to address, but as mentioned earlier in the thread, coilovers also significantly alter the performance and geometry of the suspension (effective spring rate changes under bump and reduced shock performance due to increased shock piston friction).
Keep in mind that the length changes in the rear arms for most street/track suspension settings will be very small, on the order of 1/4" or so, which was what it took to dial sfarrah's rear camber to 2.5deg. Therefore changes to roll center will be minimal, the length changes involved for camber/toe in the rear suspension is not enough to drastically alter the angles of the arms. The biggest change to roll center will come from changing your suspension height. Similarly the changes in track width will be relatively minor, especially relative to gross changes due to wheel offsets/tire widths.
As for camber gain, yes that is altered, however the situation there is not any different from shortening your front upper arm to dial in more static camber in front, when you alter that length your camber gain in front changes. For track use an increase in static camber will on average increase traction despite the changes to your camber gain.
We do still plan to eventually release our rear upper link, which will allow camber changes without affecting toe, track width and roll center. However the reason why we chose to release the lower links first is because the upper link cannot be adjusted without removing the wheel, the axles and wheels are in the way when you try to reach the upper link from the underside. This is an issue for most alignment shops...
Much like our 240SX/300ZX suspension, we simply over-design the part relative to the stock piece. We make sure the cross sections of our part are much larger than the stock part, which will guarantee its strength. If you look carefully at a stock arm you will find that it is actually pretty thin, especially at the clevis where it is possible to bend the arm by hand using pliers.
Changing the load structure is one thing to address, but as mentioned earlier in the thread, coilovers also significantly alter the performance and geometry of the suspension (effective spring rate changes under bump and reduced shock performance due to increased shock piston friction).
02-06-2007, 09:20 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by kuah
Parts have been machined, and are being plated right now, should be done Wed, so I'll have the first 5 sets or so ready to go by end of the week.
We had the new front and rear endlinks on sfarrah's Z, everything worked well, I'll let sfarrah post his impressions...
We had the new front and rear endlinks on sfarrah's Z, everything worked well, I'll let sfarrah post his impressions...
This is a picture of the rear end link. I'll have to get a picture of the fronts as they are slightly different. Car worked great all weekend including the 3 hour drive there and back. Turn in is crisp and smooth. One of the biggest things I noticed is how quiet these are. I guess during all the mods I've made there were some small noises in the suspension I just got used to or attributed to the solid diff bushings. Immediately after installing the new front links the car was so much quieter and smooth. Turns out it was the stock end links all along. The stockers certainly don't have the same articulation angle as these and I suspect a lot of the noise people are hearing is the stock end links binding when used with aftermarket sway bars.
I should have video up soon from a couple sessions playing with some vettes, vipers and a sweet GT3 Porsche on Motons. I talked to the owner at length after one session as he wanted to know what on earth I did to the car to be able to keep up with him as well as I did. I told him a few bolt ons for a few more hp but mainly it's the suspension setup. I couldn't keep up with him at the ends of the straights (he claimed it was chipped and running 500hp) but I'd pull on him on corner exit and we were pretty much even in the turns.
I definitely give the new SPL end links a thumbs up!
02-06-2007, 11:34 AM
#128
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Originally Posted by sfarrah
The end links worked great! . . . I definitely give the new SPL end links a thumbs up!
02-07-2007, 08:12 PM
#129
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1. z-u-later (front & rear end links)
2. USN HM 350Z (F & R)
3.deviljon (front and rear)
4. axolotol81 (Front and Rear)
5. jmckuhen (front & rear)
6. NoLimit (front & rear)
7. SpoilsofWar (front & rear)
8. JZ350
9. aalzuhair
10. Grommit (F & R)
11. Kevins350z (F&R)
12. Theatrix (F&R)
13. Cloud F&R
14.
15.
2. USN HM 350Z (F & R)
3.deviljon (front and rear)
4. axolotol81 (Front and Rear)
5. jmckuhen (front & rear)
6. NoLimit (front & rear)
7. SpoilsofWar (front & rear)
8. JZ350
9. aalzuhair
10. Grommit (F & R)
11. Kevins350z (F&R)
12. Theatrix (F&R)
13. Cloud F&R
14.
15.
02-07-2007, 08:58 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by z-u-later
I'm curious -- how are your endlinks setup? Is it the same length as the stocks, shorter or longer? Just wanted to know so I'll know how to adjust them when I get them installed.
02-07-2007, 09:22 PM
#131
Originally Posted by sfarrah
I should have video up soon from a couple sessions playing with some vettes, vipers and a sweet GT3 Porsche on Motons. I talked to the owner at length after one session as he wanted to know what on earth I did to the car to be able to keep up with him as well as I did.
02-08-2007, 04:51 AM
#132
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Originally Posted by sfarrah
I have mine set pretty much at their shortest setting which is very close to the stock length.
I'm going to an auto-x in a couple of weeks and will provide an update on these endlinks.
02-08-2007, 04:53 AM
#133
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Originally Posted by Cloud
1. z-u-later (front & rear end links)
2. USN HM 350Z (F & R)
3.deviljon (front and rear)
4. axolotol81 (Front and Rear)
5. jmckuhen (front & rear)
6. NoLimit (front & rear)
7. SpoilsofWar (front & rear)
8. JZ350
9. aalzuhair
10. Grommit (F & R)
11. Kevins350z (F&R)
12. Theatrix (F&R)
13. Cloud F&R
2. USN HM 350Z (F & R)
3.deviljon (front and rear)
4. axolotol81 (Front and Rear)
5. jmckuhen (front & rear)
6. NoLimit (front & rear)
7. SpoilsofWar (front & rear)
8. JZ350
9. aalzuhair
10. Grommit (F & R)
11. Kevins350z (F&R)
12. Theatrix (F&R)
13. Cloud F&R
02-09-2007, 06:38 AM
#135
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Originally Posted by Endless Shock
I have been reading the thread... Just want to make sure... What is the intro price on these? Paypal OK>
Originally Posted by kuah
I have not yet finalized the prices yet, waiting for all the bills to arrive so I can figure out the actual cost... tentatively the retail price should be $129 per axle, and intro price should be about $100 per axle...
02-09-2007, 04:57 PM
#136
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Originally Posted by z-u-later
Read below for intro price . . . I ordered mine this week.
02-13-2007, 11:06 AM
#139
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Originally Posted by Grommit
Have any of you who ordered the endlinks received them yet? Any impressions/issues? I'm still waiting for mine to arrive. *sigh*