Good morning,

I have purchased some high-temp brake fluid for a HDPE event this weekend. It should arrive in the mail today with some high-performance pads. So, tonight I need to switch out the fluid with the stock fluid. So I don't make any mistakes with such a critical system, I thought I would ask for advice. Here is my plan. Please correct any mistakes or give me tips on how to make this more simple.

Please note that the new fluid is blue, so it will make it easier to bleed.
1. Draw stock fluid out of res and fill up with new fluid
2. Attach rubber hose to right rear bleeder
3. loosen bleeder on right rear caliper and begin to pump petal
4. Top off res as it is drained into right rear line.
5. When blue fluid flows out of right rear caliper, close bleeder.
6. Remove hose
7. Move to next caliper in the proper bleeding sequence and repeat above process.
8. Once everything is bled through, top of res to correct amount.

Does this sound correct to everyone? I will be using two people, so it should go quickly. Of course I will test the car after making the change. I would never go straight to a track after something like this. Thanks.

 

Your process sounds good!

There is a lot more to step 3, so I'll clarify in case you didn't know or for the sake of those reading. You must close the valve before the brake pedal is released. Have the person running the brake pedal give a few pumps to pressurize the system and hold the pedal down. Then open the bleeder valve to allow the fluid to drain. The brake pedal will go to the floor and should be held there until you tighten the valve. Repeat the process until you get new fluid coming out of the bleeder.

Enjoy the track time!

 

Thanks for the tip. I will certainly use this process. I do have another question. Should the car be running when I do this? It should help to charge the break booster, but I do not think it is necessary. Please let me know if I am wrong.

 

Your bleeding sequence is as follows, according to the SM:

Left rear
Right front
Right rear
Left front

 

Car should be off. If you want to pressurize the system you can buy (or make) attachments to do this. You can also look into speed bleeders if you plan on changing brake fluid often.

One last tip, don't get brake fluid on your paint! This includes the painted Brembo caliper!

What brake fluid are you going to be putting in?

 

I think most people also add another step involving a catch bottle. When you attach the tubing to the bleeding valve at the caliper, the other end of the tubing should be below the surface of brake fluid which you have poured into a catch bottle. This way you can easily see if all of the air bubbles have been removed.

Also each caliper has two bleeding valves. Somewhere I read that the inner valve should be bled first.

I changed pads and bled system before a track day in early July. Bled again this past weekend. There was some air in the system, and the pedal definitely was firmer after bleeding.

There was a lot more air in the clutch hydraulics.

 

The fluid that I ordered is ATE Blue I believe. As for the catch pan, I was planning on that, but did not mention it. Thanks for the order of the calipers, I had read that in the service manual, but did not remember it correctly when I wrote this post. As for the double bleeder on each caliper, that is a surprise to me and a welcome one. I will look over the brake section in the manual to determine which side of the caliper to do first. Again, thank you for all of the help.

 

Where is this second bleeder valve you mention? I put on SS lines and only found 1 valve. The manual only shows one valve. Please tell me I'm not that blind

 

I have Brembo calipers. Could be the standard calipers have only one bleed valve. If this is true, then I can tell you that you are not blind...nothing to worry about.........

 

Did you ever determine what to do with the dual bleeders?

Also, how do you know what is good fluid? Just as long as it is DOT 4 or 5? Or do brands really matter???

 

Here's a decent article that hits a few high-points - LINK

In case you don't read the article: DOT 5 is a silicone based fluid and does NOT mix with DOT 3 or 4 and must be used only on a completely rebuilt (and compatible) system. However 5.1 IS compatible and not silicone based. Nice naming convention DOT...

 

Dave Frederickson is a brake expert and he has posted about his experience and recommendations. Because I was changing pads and bleeding the brakes prior to a track day, he recommended a higher boiling point brake fluid--ATE Blue or Motul were two that he liked. I took his advice on everything brake related and it has worked out well.

You can search for some of his posts.

 

I used the wrong name it is Dave Zeckhausen. Dave Fredrickson is someone I went to high school with...way back in the last century.

www.zeckhausen.com email him. He has been very helpful to me. I installed with his suggestions: stop-tech stainless lines, ATE Blue, Porterfield 4RS pads. The brakes do feel better with these changes. I think getting rid of the air in the lines helped a great deal also.

 

Okay, I finished my upgrades. Here are some helpful notes for everyone with BREMBO brakes.

First, the Brembos do have dual bleeders. This is because there are pistons on both sides. The standard brakes will not have dual bleeders as there is only one piston on one side.

Second, do not use a standard caliper depresser that you can find at auto shops. These do NOT work on the Brembos. Instead, hook up a hose to the bleeder, open the valve and compress the piston. You will be able to do it with a little force. Once compressed, shut the valve and you should be able to get those new pads in.

Third, the stock Brembo pads are thin and cut at angles. The leading and trailing edge of the Brembos are feathered for a smoother initial bite. This is not good for racing. My replacement Ferodo's are not feathered and the pad surface is thicker. This makes a huge difference. The initial bite now is much, much stronger.

I used ATE Blue fluid. This color of the fluid made a big difference in swapping out the fluid. It was easy to tell when the fluid was properly swapped.

I made a huge mess. This was the first time I have done this. Even though I was told not to get brake fluid on any painted surface, I got it all over the caliper by mistake. I was being careful, but my "one man bleeder" kit broke and it got all over the caliper. The good news? Well, the stock and replacement fluid did not appear to harm the caliper paint. Please note, you should still be careful. Also, I did not get any on the car paint.

I purchased two liters of fluid to be safe. I had plenty left over, but I did go into the second bottle. As I mentioned, I made a mess and used too much fluid. If you are careful, you can get it done with one liter.

Simply bleeding your brakes will make a slight difference in pedal feel. Enough so that I would recommend doing it. Mine did not have that much air, but enough that it is worth getting rid of.

The Brembo caliper bleeders take a 11mm socket. You can also use a small crescent wrench, but it is not easy. Loosen the bleeder with the socket only a little. Attach the hose and loosen the rest with your hand. This was the easiest method for me.

I hope this info helps everyone. Take care and thanks.

 

I noticed last night that I have developed a "resonance" in my front brakes. When applying the brakes softly at slow speed, especially when on a hill, the front discs start to "sing". It is not squeel from the shims. It is literally the rotors resonating. Any ideas what might cause this or what might fix it. It only happens every once in a while, so it is not a huge concern. I hope it is not glazing.

 

Did you heat cycle your brakes yet?

 

The instructions that came with the Ferodo's said to drive around and apply 50% of the pressure that you would at the track at least 30 times. I did this, but I was on the streets and I do not think that I did the best job. I braked hard, at least for the street, while driving around the neighnborhood. I am not sure that the brakes ever reached a good temperature. Any suggestions?

 

With racing pads you may notice some side effects when using them for daily driving since they are designed to perform best when hot. But it could also be that they just need a little more "bedding in." Do some heavy braking 65-5 mph runs until you're brakes are nice and hot and you begin to notice some fading (about 5-7 runs.) Park it until the brakes are at ambient temp and then see if the problem is fixed.

 

If you park it with hot rotors, do not apply the e-brake.

I think that it is worth it to find a stretch of road long enough that you can bed the pads/rotors and have a bit of road left to allow the rotors to cool down as you drive along.

 

jackwhale, I beg to differ......

The E brake is a seperate drum brake. It's application is actually better than using the regular brakes for cooling the rotor surface.

If the E brake used the caliper, then you would be correct, but not for the 350Z, as the 350Z uses the inside of the rear "hat" for it's E brake.