I am about to lower my car and need advice on alignment settings. Should I take it to nissan? They might try to void my car for the feather issue (assuming it will come back in a few thousand miles). I have someone that can do it for much cheaper than nissan and will do whatever settings i want. Any suggestions on what the settings should be?

thanks

 

You should follow NNA's spec range. I can send you copies of them if you PM your email.

The rear camber should be between -1.58 to -2.0 for best handling. Nothing you can do about the front.

 

for me... since I take the Z to about 8 track events a year, I'd like my front camber -2.0 degrees and rear camber -2.5.

But, the front is not adjustable... I think it's designed with about -1.0 in the front. When you lower, you will probably be right on spec... I've talked to two people who have lowered and the front camber did not change at all.

So... like zwindsor said, stick with the OEM setting for best tire wear and street handling.

Try contacting Bobby Archer's in Fort Worth. They are a race shop and I think they do suspensions. Sorry... don't have the number handy.

Hope that helps,

PeteH

 

If you lower more than 1", then you may encounter bumpsteer. Anyway, I'd give the front tires a little toe-in to the tune of 2mm.

Michael.

 

Mike,

Why 2mm? I thought the most updated Nissan Specs was a Toe-in of 1mm. Is this for a car that's lowered more than 1"?

 

S-Tune spec calls for 0-2MM in front and 1.1-2.7MM in the rear.

 

Actually, Nissan's specs (per FSM) specify a minimum of 0mm, a nominal of 1mm, and a maximum of 2mm for the front. To compensate for the tire feathering issue, I would recommend trying 2mm (2/25"). If the feathering returns, then I would try adding more toe-in until you find a "sweet spot."

Michael.

 

so more toe in gets read of the feathering? that doesnt make sense to me.. seems like that would scrub the tires more?

 

Tire feathering is cause by toe. Tire feathering on the inside tread is caused by excessive toe-out. Consequently, tire feathering on the outside tread is caused by excessive toe-in.

Under acceleration and at speed, the front wheels of a RWD vehicle will have a tendency to toe-out (consequently, the front wheels of a FWD vehicle will have a tendency to toe-in).

Therefore, by setting your front toe to zero, you will actually get toe-out under acceleration and at speed. And that explains my recommendation. You'd want to dial in a hair of toe-in and adjust as required to maintain even tire wear.

Futhermore, toe will change under suspension travel. This phenomena is referred to as "bumpsteer." Also dropping your car 1" or more will change toe.

Michael.

 

The amount of toe change on suspension travel, depends on the particular vehicle. It may be very slight on the Z, and not an issue for most people. For some cars, you can buy 'bumpsteer kits' to lessen or eliminate that problem.

When I lowered mine 1.25", the front toe changed .075" (out).

 

NO! Tire feathering can be made worse by bad toe-in settings, but cupping is NOT toe-in alone - as evidenced by the 1242 viewings and 48000 viewings on the Tire feathering issue under Repairing/....

Caster, camber, spring rate, compound of tire, etc, - many things and we only get to adjust one - toe-in, w/o extensive aftermarket mods for a problem that Nissan built into the design of the Z's front suspension.

Nothing wrong with NISMO, JIC's etc, but the average owner should have to install a new front end just to get even wear.

 

Tire feathering and tire cupping are 2 different wear patterns. Tire feathering is primarily caused by excessive toe (since camber is not adjustable in the front). I defer you to an article on Yokohama's website: http://www.yokohamatire.com/utmeasures.asp Pay particular attention to the section on toe.

Tire cupping can be caused by "bad" springs and/or struts or even as simple as incorrect tire pressure. I defer you to this link for more information on cupping: http://www.partsamerica.com/MaintenanceTireProblem.asp

All of this information was found doing a simple search on google.

Michael.

 

...and as such should be taken with a grain of salt. Sounds like you and NNA use the same references for Customer Service. Google is very effective but like news sound bites, doesn't automatically convey wisdom or understanding - just information.

If tire pressure, toe-in, and springs could alleviate the issues described in 1242 posts elsewhere in this forum, you're the Second Coming of the Mesiah. Go post your newly found wisdom and find out what I'm talking about.

All the information I refer to was found with a simple reading of this forum on the Tire Feathering Thread I refer to, augmented by experience, judgement, and use of the brain for more than parsing the Google top ten as "fact".

 

Prime example of lots of information, you cherry-picked what you wanted to support your view of the world - with a small subset of the info. That's what I mean about Google <> Wisdom.

Read it again, and tell me why we have 350Z's with severe cupping and feathering at 3000 miles with "perfect" toe-in adjustment up front? Worn suspension? Blown shocks? Toasted bearings?
Count the number of other reasons you omit from your post -

from your second URL:
"Tire wear patterns, such as scuffing, cupping and outside shoulder wear, often are an indication of a larger problem with a vehicle's chassis components, reports Terry Hawkins, alignment specialist and senior instructor with Moog Automotive.

"The cause of uneven tire wear can be as simple as under inflation or over inflation," says Hawkins, "but it also can result from loose parts such as shocks, struts, ball joints, steering linkage or from weak springs." As a precaution against tire failure -- the No. 1 cause of highway breakdowns Hawkins recommends checking tires regularly for the following conditions:

Shoulder wear, which can be caused by under-inflation or hard cornering. Many shredded rubber tires seen along highways are the result of either under inflated tires, running too long and too hot, or from severe misalignment.

Center tread wear, which usually indicates over-inflation. Over inflation results when a vehicle owner tries to compensate for a slow leak by over inflating the tire to make it stay up longer.

Cupping can be caused by an unbalanced tire condition, faulty wheel bearings, loose parts, fatigued springs or weak shock absorbers. Check the condition of the shock by forcefully bouncing the front end of the car several times and releasing it on the down stroke. Failure of the vehicle to settle after two strokes suggests worn shocks or struts.

Camber or toe wear indicates misalignment due to loose, worn or bent steering linkage components. Many camber and toe wear problems can be traced to spring fatigue, which causes the vehicle's frame to ride closer to the road. Once the vehicle is below the manufacturer's height specifications, it is not possible to achieve the correct camber change designed into the suspension without replacing the springs. The vehicle also experiences excessive toe change as the suspension travels through jounce and rebound, again causing abnormal tire wear."

Hmm...maybe I have "spring fatigue" in my stock , not-lowered car with good alignment that must be causing my tires to wear both feathered and cupped at 3k intervals...I'll alert the Authorities.

 

BTW, if you run into a Daytona Blue Z with Nismo suspension, a front fascia, and a windows XP computer in the dash, tell him I would like my Antenna back I loaned him at the ZCCA show...thanks!

 

Yokohama wisdom > my350z members "wisdom."

I have, but unfortunately, nobody is listening. Unfortunately, this forum has a very bad lynch mob and conspiracy theory mentality.

When you search google and come up w/ alignment sites that consistently explain the causes of inner tire feathering and other mis-alignment problems: I believe THAT is more credible than n00b 350z owners (w/ 350's that'll probably never see an open track) saying "yes, I have the tire feathering problem". Yeah, I had the tire feathering at 3k miles. So you want me to post in that monster thread re-affirming the situation or do you want a solution?

When you search google and come up w/ other car sites that encounter tire feathering: that tells you that tire feathering is not just limited to our beloved (and expected perfect 350z).

Speaking of using your brain, how about this. If the suspension is truly flawed, then why doesn't the problem exist w/ G35 and non-North American 350's? Think about it. They all share the same platform and suspension. But what's the key differentiator: the 350z is the sports car of the bunch. And as such, it will have different springs, struts, sway bars, and ALIGNMENT settings. And those settings will be more aggressive. Do you understand the simple affect an alignment has on a vehicle's handling? Adding more negative camber to the front dials in less understeer, however, it wears the inner tire quicker. ADDING TOE-OUT TO THE FRONT DIALS IN OVERSTEER (AND WEARS THE INNER TREAD QUICKER) AND ADDING TOE-IN TO THE FRONT DIALS IN UNDERSTEER (AND WEARS THE OUTER TREAD QUICKER).

Would you like me to purchase a book on suspension design and alignments and quote from it to further illustrate? There's nothing about the 350z suspension that makes it that much more different than other vehicle suspension designs.

Michael.

 

And since you're so bent on my350z threads preaching great wisdom:

The same member that posted your beloved tire feathering thread, https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ight=alignment also posted this thread, https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ight=alignment .

Michael.

 

1) g35 coupes do show the problem - those with Michelins take longer - tire compound issue.
2) Nissan did a swap mid-year to progressive springs from linear sometime in late 2002/early 2003.
3) There's a lot of BS on every thread - if you're going to talk about "preaching" then better check whether you live in a glass house...
4) ...and if you can't take criticism and have a glass jaw, shut your mouth.

You sure ask a lot of defensive questions w/o saying much - since you've got this all figured out, why not spend a few bytes on sharing "the" resolution?

BTW, the more serious cases you won't see much from on that thread, they're keeping low while NNA repeatedly tries to address the issue with tire swapping (?) and alignment...and fails.

 

and BTW, if you see my Daytona pal down in Texas, please be sure to mention that attenna.

Thanks!

 

As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You're right, since I'm being defensive, I'll stop arguing w/ you. I've presented my recommendation that works well for me (and droideka).

Michael.