angelo_balto

Hello, I have already done one big-brake upgrade (front brakes) and used the Wilwood Superlite 6R Big Brake Front Brake Kit for over a year and well...
I'm not quite satisfied.

They are well built, progressive, ABS-friendly and after changing a couple of different wilwood pad-types I've concluded that they do not have the "bite" I need for my car. It's got over 500+bhp and here the police & the speed-limits are "flexible"... So 280-300km/h + Wilwood = not confidence inspiring...

Anyway, a logical upgrade from the Wilwwod is the AP Racing 6 Piston Kit (maybe even ad a 4 piston AP at the rear). And then I came across a friend that is selling his Nissan OEM Brembo from his R35... hmmm

So, what do you think?

AP Racing 6 piston (front), 4 piston (back) vs Brembo R35 OEM Nissan full kit?

Flo-ridaZ33

iTrader: (60)

Lgear080 is the only guy on the forum with the R35's... I'd personally get Stoptech's because of the pad selection and price. The R35's require some work and a bracket to work and isn't cheap.

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

What pads are you running? BP-20 should be plenty, no matter what brake kit you buy, you will need to find pads to your liking.

angelo_balto

I found them (used R35 full set) at around $7-8.000... ain't cheap...

Same price (but new) are the AP Racing.. So +1 for them.

Stoptech you say. I'll check them out. Is their braking power/feel near the AP?

Flo-ridaZ33

iTrader: (60)

Yes the R35 are more for looks than anything else... they offer great stopping power but it can be had with other BBK's for less. The Stoptech's are very popular here in the US, AP's are good too but I'd rather go with the Stoptechs.

I'd contact Todd at TCE before buying anything, he's the guy to ask about Wilwood's... maybe he can give you some good advice on other pad options for your Wilwoods.

angelo_balto

Last set I ordered was a BP-10 & a BP-20.
You're right the BP-20 seem to be the best grip/feel but I seem to lack a bit more bite.

btw, I see that the Wilwood's pad surface is 50 mm² (as is the OEM Brembos), but the AP's surface is 70 mm² as you can here:



Maybe size does matter?

silvertouringz

i had the OE brembos and was not so satisfied so i sold them and went back to stock. my bmw X5 3.0's brakes have better bite than the OE brembos on the Z's

plumpzz

iTrader: (10)

If its just bite than you need better pads. If its distance, which is what i think you mean to say, then its tires. BP-20s can be used on endurance races for sub 3000 lb cars and I've never felt like I was under padded with extreme summer tires.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

and even @ that price, the GTR kit still won't actually fit your car straight away - be prepared for at least another $1,000-$1500 in a custom machined bracket set

angelo_balto

bigcloud

iTrader: (7)

Do you track your car at all? Or are you just stating your street driving experience? I have done a whole season of autocross and HPDE's, and the BITE on my Brembo's is good enough to slow me down from 130+ to 50 VERY well. So I don't understand your logic.

Can your quantify the "bite" other than your current statement?

Todd TCE

iTrader: (1)

If you're looking for bite you need to move to a more metallic compound pad than the BP10 or 20. Both good pads but not the 'wow' factor of low to mid temp bite you are probably after.

For low temps I'd suggest either Poly D or Poly E compounds. D was the former pad of choice in older kits years ago and E is an extension of that compound to a higher temp range. D is also a great AutoX pad for it's 'now' bite required in that use but can fade out if pushed into sustained temp ranges. Recovery is actually quite good though. E on the other hand is a bit more metallic at low temp but it's balance/feel at elevated temps surpasses that of the BP stuff.

(some of this from personal experience, some from customers, most just 18yrs of doing it...)



"D" Compound
PolyMatrix "D": has the highest cold friction value of all medium temperature race pads. Best suited for light to moderate braking dirt tracks, most types of drag racing and performance street category competition. Superb material on all cast iron and high strength steel rotors ultimately extending rotor life over other hard or abrasive brake pad compounds. A great AutoX pad due to its cold temperature application. D pads are used exclusively on the TCE Pikes Peak Hill Climb car.

"E" Compound

PolyMatrix "E" : is an extension to the success of Poly D but performs well at a higher temperature range and offers more stability in the 500-900f range. Excellent choice for dirt track racing, high performance street and medium duty track day applications. Poly E is also quite metallic in nature so should not be considered a first choice for a daily driver unless noise and dust are not an issue. May also be used where Poly D is no longer available with little loss of performance. Also suited (like D) for Autocross with heavier cars. Great for bias tuning on the rear of light to medium duty applicatons are needed when combined with compounds such as B or C are employed on the front.




Re: pad size. The size of the pad has little effect on braking other than life. More pad material simply lasts longer. A larger foot print does not make for more brake torque. In fact if the piston area (the force) is the same on both calipers then the AP pad will actually have slightly less torque. The pad being taller places its effective radius lower and thus for calculation purpose the mean pressure point. The Wilwood pad being narrower places this leverage point at a higher radius. So...the AP will require either a larger rotor or more piston area (softer pedal) to make up for it. Just sayin.

angelo_balto

Thanks for the info !

Great stuff about "pad size"

angelo_balto

Haven't tried the "E" compound yet, but seems promising...

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

overall 'bite', or what you perceive as bite via how the pedal effort is, also has a lot to do with the fluid you're running, particularly it's age. In addition, the mu rating of the pad itself and rigidity of the caliper play roles as well as piston size

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

+1 on the suggestions that BITE has to do with the brake pad compound and pedal feedback via fluid.

your main question is where do you want the most bite @? quick emergency OMG stops (aka one really fast cold stop) or repeated stops which are from track or canyon runs (pads and BBk systems more adapted to dissipate heat for fade resistance)?

swapping parts w/o defining your system performance requirements will often lead to wasted money and potentially dissatisfaction.

angelo_balto

Just got back from my mechanic. They are suggesting the following:

1) keep the wilwood 6 Piston, but move it to the rear wheels (they say that the take full responsibility into doing that)
2) buy a used set of Brembo Gran Turismo (GT) 8 Piston Calipers that a customer is selling (out of a 911 turbo Gemballa)
3) buy a new set of 380mm disks (etc) for the Calipers.

Al this will cost me just a bit more that a set of new AP Front kit..! That is labour included !!!!!!

ps. they will take care of the ABS balance of the car.

konrad

iTrader: (15)

how are they going to balance the ABS of the car? that takes lots of R&D which im sure a regular mechanic wont know **** about. Also you most likely would need custom 2 peace rotors made to make the Porsche brakes work on a Z

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

virtually speechless (not in a good way)

bigcloud

iTrader: (7)

Yeah me too. All that money just for a "bite" feel. How about this guy learn how to brake properly.