Another Coilover Suggestion Thread
02-09-2012, 02:44 AM
#1
Another Coilover Suggestion Thread
I know this subject has probably been beaten to death already, but ill go ahead and ask. Ive been looking for a set of coilovers that can be tracked and still be comfortable for a DD. Now I track my z every 3-4 months, so the car will need coilovers that are compliant on a road course. However, I dont want to spend the kind of money you would need for a set of motons or ohlins. I was looking at the KW V3 and Bilstien PSS10 (not sure if those are even comparable). I need the coils to last, to not be noisy, and to perform (both on/off track).
My philosophy is if your going to do something, do it right the first time. That being said, someone please help me! XD
P.S. I would want to lower the car at least 1.5-1.7 inches. For that I will need camber arms and toe arms. recommendations?
The cars mods for clarification of needs:
1.adjustable sways (installed)
2.RPF1s' (18x9.5, 18x10.5 +15 all around)
3. Either RS3s' 265/35 F 265/40 R OR 275/35 F&R
Thank You
-Matt
My philosophy is if your going to do something, do it right the first time. That being said, someone please help me! XD
P.S. I would want to lower the car at least 1.5-1.7 inches. For that I will need camber arms and toe arms. recommendations?
The cars mods for clarification of needs:
1.adjustable sways (installed)
2.RPF1s' (18x9.5, 18x10.5 +15 all around)
3. Either RS3s' 265/35 F 265/40 R OR 275/35 F&R
Thank You
-Matt
02-09-2012, 05:10 AM
#2
My philosophy is if your going to do something, do it right the first time. That being said, someone please help me! XD
P.S. I would want to lower the car at least 1.5-1.7 inches. For that I will need camber arms and toe arms. recommendations?
The cars mods for clarification of needs:
1.adjustable sways (installed)
2.RPF1s' (18x9.5, 18x10.5 +15 all around)
3. Either RS3s' 265/35 F 265/40 R OR 275/35 F&R
Thank You
-Matt
P.S. I would want to lower the car at least 1.5-1.7 inches. For that I will need camber arms and toe arms. recommendations?
The cars mods for clarification of needs:
1.adjustable sways (installed)
2.RPF1s' (18x9.5, 18x10.5 +15 all around)
3. Either RS3s' 265/35 F 265/40 R OR 275/35 F&R
Thank You
-Matt
02-09-2012, 07:14 AM
#4
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I heard good things about KWv3. I also read that if you go with the V3 and not the V2 make sure you take the time to learn how to actually use them since they are more adjustable. If you do not plane on making fine tuned adjustments for every tack you go to then v2 might work better for you. I just bought coil overs too but my budget wasn't as high and ended up with Fortune auto. I also do not track the car so I was too worry about going lower end because of it. Best of luck to you and suspension 101 really is a blessing.
02-09-2012, 08:52 AM
#5
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PSS10 and V2s would be a more direct comparison
Both have progressive springs, less than ideal for the track, but still workable. If you invested in the SPL midlink and new springs you could have linear, but then you're also pushed to a whole other price point
On the road, both are extremely easy to live with. Bilsteins go lower (just) than the KW, which max out around -1.5 inches out back. Bilsteins are ~1.7. V3 is significantly more adjustable, but IMHO, to it's detriment, as most people have no idea how to go about setting them in the first place. It's time consuming. The plastic ring design that KW uses (or at least used for a long time, maybe it's now changed?) on all their coilovers leaves something to be desired too
At this price point (call it the $2000 neighborhood, V3's being a bit more, Bilstein's being a bit less), it's a very tough thing to have a true all around unit. Having used all of these units extensively over the years, the Cusco Zero2 (I previously ran these for several years) would be a better overall choice IMHO. Will be the most expensive out of the bunch (under $2300 though), and give you linear springs front/rear, good dampening control (more meaningful than the Bilstein (which I run now), and easier to setup vs the V3
From there you get into the Ohlins or Zeal range, and from there, Moton, JRZ, and others
Both have progressive springs, less than ideal for the track, but still workable. If you invested in the SPL midlink and new springs you could have linear, but then you're also pushed to a whole other price point
On the road, both are extremely easy to live with. Bilsteins go lower (just) than the KW, which max out around -1.5 inches out back. Bilsteins are ~1.7. V3 is significantly more adjustable, but IMHO, to it's detriment, as most people have no idea how to go about setting them in the first place. It's time consuming. The plastic ring design that KW uses (or at least used for a long time, maybe it's now changed?) on all their coilovers leaves something to be desired too
At this price point (call it the $2000 neighborhood, V3's being a bit more, Bilstein's being a bit less), it's a very tough thing to have a true all around unit. Having used all of these units extensively over the years, the Cusco Zero2 (I previously ran these for several years) would be a better overall choice IMHO. Will be the most expensive out of the bunch (under $2300 though), and give you linear springs front/rear, good dampening control (more meaningful than the Bilstein (which I run now), and easier to setup vs the V3
From there you get into the Ohlins or Zeal range, and from there, Moton, JRZ, and others
02-09-2012, 09:58 PM
#8
I owned them at one time. I wondered why they did not handle better when you turned the damping up stiffer. So I paid someone to revalve them (another story) and along the way put them on a shock dyno. Found out why real quick. The adjustors can't add damping where you need it most. But they do add damping where you DON'T want it. They feel stiffer, but in the wrong way.
IMO get the Kw V3 and make small changes in dampnig adjustment starting off at full soft and working up as needed. A poorly adjusted V3 will kick the cr*p out a Pss10 at the track 100% of the time.
The Cusco would be another good choice. But based on the companies publishd drop specs.
Cusco Zero1 and Zero2 recommended drop, min/max drop
Recommended drop -.8”/.8”
Min drop 0”/0”
Max drop -1.2”/-1.0”
^ seems like a pretty small range for a full height adjustable setup, but I pulled the specs directly from Cusco.
Last edited by Gsedan35; 02-10-2012 at 07:07 AM.
02-09-2012, 10:43 PM
#10
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If you plan to track your car you need to re evaluate the amount of drop you plan to run. The suspension geometry gets screwed up really freaking quick as you lower a Z. The front can be lowered roughly 3/4 of an inch (I also suggest SPL tie rod ends that are adjustable for bumpsteer) and the rear can come down roughly 1 1/4 inch before the roll center gets thrown way off.
Proper geometry is a must for good handling!
Proper geometry is a must for good handling!
02-10-2012, 10:04 AM
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Do not attempt to track with Bilstein Pss10. They should only be purchased by someone that wants one of the best comfort ride setups on the market. In that mission they are excellent, beyond reproach.
I owned them at one time. I wondered why they did not handle better when you turned the damping up stiffer. So I paid someone to revalve them (another story) and along the way put them on a shock dyno. Found out why real quick. The adjustors can't add damping where you need it most. But they do add damping where you DON'T want it. They feel stiffer, but in the wrong way.
IMO get the Kw V3 and make small changes in dampnig adjustment starting off at full soft and working up as needed. A poorly adjusted V3 will kick the cr*p out a Pss10 at the track 100% of the time.
The Cusco would be another good choice. But based on the companies publishd drop specs.
Cusco Zero1 and Zero2 recommended drop, min/max drop
Recommended drop -.8”/.8”
Min drop 0”/0”
Max drop -1.2”/-1.0”
^ seems like a pretty small range for a full height adjustable setup, but I pulled the specs directly from Cusco.
I owned them at one time. I wondered why they did not handle better when you turned the damping up stiffer. So I paid someone to revalve them (another story) and along the way put them on a shock dyno. Found out why real quick. The adjustors can't add damping where you need it most. But they do add damping where you DON'T want it. They feel stiffer, but in the wrong way.
IMO get the Kw V3 and make small changes in dampnig adjustment starting off at full soft and working up as needed. A poorly adjusted V3 will kick the cr*p out a Pss10 at the track 100% of the time.
The Cusco would be another good choice. But based on the companies publishd drop specs.
Cusco Zero1 and Zero2 recommended drop, min/max drop
Recommended drop -.8”/.8”
Min drop 0”/0”
Max drop -1.2”/-1.0”
^ seems like a pretty small range for a full height adjustable setup, but I pulled the specs directly from Cusco.
02-11-2012, 12:00 PM
#16
Why not the KW clubsports? I'm in the same spot as my Z is a daily driver that sees occasional track days and I will probably end up getting the clubsports. Clubsports may be a bit of overkill, but I believe they use linear springs in the rear instead of progressive like the V3, and aren't too much more.
02-11-2012, 11:28 PM
#18
Why not the KW clubsports? I'm in the same spot as my Z is a daily driver that sees occasional track days and I will probably end up getting the clubsports. Clubsports may be a bit of overkill, but I believe they use linear springs in the rear instead of progressive like the V3, and aren't too much more.
Example
http://www.ebay.com/itm/COILOVERS-LO...item3a6f7d1b09
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EI...0450/?rtype=10
Your after two parts in the ebay kit and two parts only, the others you'd might as well toss. The adjustable rear spring seats
Then purchase 2 5.5" outside diameter springs 9.5" tall. Use a miter saw to slice off enough of one of the ends of the spring to make a pigtail that can sit in the oem rear lower control arm.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EI...0450/?rtype=10
When your done you now have a Kw V3 coilover setup with adjustable linear rear springs. Cost would be about $400. Still below the cost of clubsports
Kw V3 @ z1auto $2150 + linear rear spring conversion = $2550
Kw Clubsport @z1auto $3079
The thing about the Clubsport kit is you have to have deep faith that with high spring rates the setup uses, actually translates into real world daily driver liveablity on your local road constions.
Kw Clubsport spring rates
800/455
Kw V3 spring rates (keeping it simply by only using the fronts peak rate)
525/450 with a 450lbs linear spring conversion in the rear
out of the box as delivered Kw V3 Spring rates Front 485lbs to 525Lbs Rear: 240Lbs to 548Lbs (progressive springs)
Last edited by Gsedan35; 02-13-2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: correction on clubsport specs
02-12-2012, 09:41 AM
#19
Gsedan35 - I was under the impression the clubsports have the springs in the OEM location as well. http://docs.kwsuspension.de/eah35285802.pdf I found these install instructions via www.kw-store.com and the last page has a picture showing what looks to be a conventional 2.5ID spring at the oem location with a helper spring.
The spring rates on the clubsports look a little high to me, but assuming they are 2.5ID springs they can easily be changed out. They also have the spherical upper mounts.
Sorry OP not meaning this to be a threadjack.
Edit: This link has more/better pics of the rear set up. http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...sway-bars.aspx
The spring rates on the clubsports look a little high to me, but assuming they are 2.5ID springs they can easily be changed out. They also have the spherical upper mounts.
Sorry OP not meaning this to be a threadjack.
Edit: This link has more/better pics of the rear set up. http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...sway-bars.aspx
Last edited by heyyouduh; 02-12-2012 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Added link
02-12-2012, 10:42 PM
#20
Gsedan35 - I was under the impression the clubsports have the springs in the OEM location as well. http://docs.kwsuspension.de/eah35285802.pdf I found these install instructions via www.kw-store.com and the last page has a picture showing what looks to be a conventional 2.5ID spring at the oem location with a helper spring.
The spring rates on the clubsports look a little high to me, but assuming they are 2.5ID springs they can easily be changed out. They also have the spherical upper mounts.
Sorry OP not meaning this to be a threadjack.
Edit: This link has more/better pics of the rear set up. http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...sway-bars.aspx
The spring rates on the clubsports look a little high to me, but assuming they are 2.5ID springs they can easily be changed out. They also have the spherical upper mounts.
Sorry OP not meaning this to be a threadjack.
Edit: This link has more/better pics of the rear set up. http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...sway-bars.aspx