Good lord guys...you're reading way too far into this! Pricing has not been finalized yet!!! I'm not trying to hint, lie, or do anything subversive...I just don't know yet. As I said in my post, pricing will be SIMILAR to the 14" 4 wheel kit. What I was told by my engineers that the billet rear IS more expensive than our standard ST-45 caliper we use on the rear for the 14" kit. The 13" rotors are cheaper than the 14"'s however ($21 per rotor, or $84 price difference on all 4 rotors). The cost differentials should offset eachother somewhat.
There's nothing implied...not really following your logic here...see cost differences above.

Wow...not sure how to respond to this. Here is where I stand overall...I am HOPING to bring the 4 wheel 13" kit to the market for $3995-$4495. If you buy the rear separate, it will be the final 4 wheel kit price minus the $1995 the current 13" front kit costs. That's it. There is nothing definite yet. It's highly unlikely that the 4 wheel 13" kit will cost more than the 4 wheel 14" kit. Nobody is getting 'screwed,' and nobody is forced to buy anything. If you want the best brakes you can get for your Z, please try to be patient and see how this works out. Whatever the product turns out to be, it will be to our usual quality and performance standards. I won't let anything less out the door.
You aren't understanding...the billet rear is a COMPLETELY new design from a fresh sheet of paper. The construction is ONLY possible by doing a billet piece at this time. It's not a matter of just picking one or other!

I am doing my best to bring the product to the market in this price range. I find this sort of thing very frustrating. Everyone complained, begged, and pleaded for a 13" 4 wheel kit to allow the use of 17" wheels. I pushed the thing through engineering and got the product designed. I cannot control what is physically possible, and the associated costs. I'm doing my best to bring products that the market demands. How many major manufacturers are this proactive in product development? This is not like changing the color of a grounding kit...designing a new caliper is a major engineering effort. I'm trying to give everyone live updates on the product development cycle as they cross my desk. Maybe I should just stop doing this altogether. I'm trying to be a resource to help Z owners with their braking issues. Everyone freaks out and jumps to conclusions. I'm not withholding any info...I just don't have all of the answers. These things sort themselves out as the product moves forward. That's just the way it works. I'm just doing my best to set realistic expectations. I'd rather under-promise, and then over-deliver. Talk to anyone at the track running our equipment, and see if we are hitting our goal of providing the best value products vs. our competition (value being defined as the most performance vs. cost). I believe we are. People would crucify me if I promised a 4 wheel 13" kit for one price, then charged more. I'm trying to be conservative and realisitic.
Cut me some slack here...show me all of the Brembo guys spending hours on this board each week answering questions, and generally try to help. You're all getting real-time updates on product development. I don't know what more people can possibly expect.

 

Hey, you'll get no slack from me, Buddy...

 

Hahaha...thanks for the support Patrick! NO BRAKES FOR YOU!!!

 

Well, I'll shut up until they are released. I realize you are doing your best.

I guess the frustrating part is that some of us figured with the $500 difference on the 14 and 13 inch front only kits, that there might be a significant savings dropping to 13's. I know many were just assuming they would be in the 3500ish.

X

 

JRitt, Thanks for the update. I am looking forward to seeing the finished product. Hopefully you guys can keep it under $4,000 retail. Thanks.

 

I'd like to second this.. thank you for keeping us updated and pushing through a product to meet demand. We're disappointed that there won't be a lot of savings versus the larger 14" kit.. (makes me wonder why I'm getting a smaller brake kit -- it won't dissipate quite as much heat and I'm barely saving anything, might as well buy the larger brakes and pay slightly more for larger race wheels, but weight savings is a priority) .. but I realize product development has a high cost -- it's just a shame that the Z required a new caliper design.

Here's hoping you can come in under $4k. It's difficult to justify $4,000+ on brakes when I only need the stopping power on the track, 9 or 10 times a year. The Wilwood kits (also using billet calipers) are coming in right around $3,000, and I find it hard to believe that the caliper flex is going to make a big enough difference to justify another hard-earned $1,000.

 

A couple of more notes on this situation that haven't been addressed yet...there is actually another tangible benefit (besides the straight weight savings) of the 13inch kit vs. the 14inch kit...there is less pad knockback.

1. Pad knockback is a definite issue with big brakes on the 350Z. As a preface to a discussion on knockback, please check out this link: http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/knockback.htm

The problem with the 350Z (and the 300zx) is that the stock upright, hub, and bearing assembly has substantial flex in it. We've heard plenty of reports from Track model owners that have had substantial knockback issues on the racetrack. I have our 332mm kit installed on the front of my Z, but I did not experience any knockback. Well, from a mass standpoint, you’re probably thinking, ‘the StopTech 332mm kit and stock Brembo kit are pretty close in size…why would there be any less knockback?’ There are a few likely reasons. First, the pad retaining clip on the bridge of the StopTech and Brembo calipers is different (the pad retaining clip is the little metal piece sandwiched in between the top of the pads and the bottom of the bolt-in bridge on our setup…the Brembo’s have a pin that slides across from one side to the other that holds the pads in the caliper.) The StopTech clip is a more neutral system…the pads do not tend to pull back away from the rotor face quite as easily. The Brembo pins have tension in them that tends to push the pads away from the rotor more easily.
Additionally, the seals that surround the pistons are different. When the piston is pushed out of the caliper (brake force applied through the pedal), the seals deform as the piston moves. When pressure is released, the pistons retract into the caliper. Depending on the design, the piston / seal interface would be different, and the tendency of the piston to pull back into the caliper would be different. We think that this may be another possible reason why the Brembos tend to retract into the caliper more easily, exacerbating the knockback phenomena.
Possibly the most important fact however, is that we have smaller effective piston areas in our calipers. This is bound up in the fact that we take the time to accurately size the pistons for the most effective bias. The effective area of the Brembo pistons is greater than the StopTech’s in the magnitude of 17% vs. our 355mm kit, and 10% on our 332mm kit. The result is that more fluid is displaced back into the system when the piston retracts into the caliper. In simple terms, the pistons in the Brembo are bigger and on reapply, it takes more fluid to push them back into position against the pad and the rotor. When the brake is released, more fluid again moves back out when the pistons retract.

With the 13 inch 4 wheel kit, this phenomena will be improved to some extent vs. a 14” kit, because the ratio effect of the smaller radius results in a reduction of the magnitude of the actual runout. Therefore, there are some additional benefits to running the 332mm kit instead of the 355mm kit.

 

Interesting. I know Stoptech will be receiving my money for a 4-wheel kit. It sounds like the 13" kit will be better than the 14". What are the benefits of the 14" over the 13"? Greater Heat dissipation?

 

Yes,
A 14" kit will have greater heat dissipation, that is true. It also appeals ranks higher on the Aesthetic factor.

Thanks for the support guys...I hope I'm providing something useful.

 

I think we all appreciate the info.

It's just that many of us are under the impression that if bigger = better, than smaller should equal less expensive.

Of course we all know that often smaller = more expensive, simply because packaging becomes difficult, and it sounds like this is the case for the 13" rear brakes on the Z.

So, we may come across as unappreciative at times, but I think that is usually when we are expecting one thing and then forced to accept a truth we wish was false. Of course, it is much better for us to get info up front, instead of much later when the brakes are released at prices higher than anyone was expecting.

So, thanks for the info, and keep up the good work!

-D'oh!

 

Keep up the good work champ!


Murray

 

Nice one.

 

Thanks for the support guys. I really am doing everything I can to keep my Z peeps happy. In my world, all Z's would have a set of brakes on them that can dig deep into every corner, on every lap.


Oh man...I think I'm delusional...TGIF.

 

Can you explain why you can't use your normal caliper and have to go billet? Would it put too much rear bias? Can you not compensate with other means?
Why can't you squeeze for the new one? Too low a volume?

I know it's early but hopefully you can answer.
Thanks.

 

No good deed goes unpunished. But your efforts are indeed appreciated and we are very happy to get the information to make more intelligent decisions for our cars.
Best regards, Ed.