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Coilovers vs. Wheels & tires

Old 06-20-2013, 08:06 AM
  #21  
palepony
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Originally Posted by DCJodon View Post
And you probably took more effort to spell my name incorrectly than it would have taken to spell it correctly.
sorry - I did butcher that. corrected.

Last edited by palepony; 06-20-2013 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:15 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by The REAL PigPen View Post
Obviously you do not understand the concept of opinions.
Yes, sorry - didn't mean to come off so harsh. All comes down to the OP's goals. I can understand that different people will have different goals as shown by the difference in opinions in this thread. I assumed when the OP was talking NT01's and 17's he/she was interested in a track setup.

My apologies.

pp
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:19 AM
  #23  
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..the thing that i think is overlooked here is "because $$$"

if he's really on a budget, you're better off skipping the low-end coilover setups and save up until you can get something that will actually help handling.

i'd spend the money on stickier tires in the stock 18... 18s since less sidewall roll than 17s.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:40 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by palepony View Post
Yes, sorry - didn't mean to come off so harsh. All comes down to the OP's goals. I can understand that different people will have different goals as shown by the difference in opinions in this thread. I assumed when the OP was talking NT01's and 17's he/she was interested in a track setup.

My apologies.

pp
No worries Brosuf!
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:58 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by DCJodon View Post
Sorry man, not all of us are racecar drivers like you. OP wouldn't be asking this question if he already knew the answer, therefore must not spend much time (if any) on the track. In the eyes of the daily driver/common enthusiast, suspension outweighs the benefits of wheel/tire. In the interest of adjustability, performance and ride comfort both on and off the track, coilovers are my choice for the common driver.
Daily driven/ weekend track car is what the OP said. Kinda odd, that is exactly what my car was for 5 years. How about yours? How much experience do you have tracking on stock springs, cheap coilovers and quality coilovers?

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Old 06-20-2013, 05:02 PM
  #26  
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I DD my Z and participated in two AutoX events last year. I realized the Z's weakness and IMO, stickier tires and sway bars would yield greater gain than some stiffer budget suspension setup that give you the illusion of handling performance.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:03 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Emski View Post
I DD my Z and participated in two AutoX events last year. I realized the Z's weakness and IMO, stickier tires and sway bars would yield greater gain than some stiffer budget suspension setup that give you the illusion of handling performance.
I'll second that. I just switched to Sumitomo HTRZ lll and they stick like GLUE compared to previous rubber. Made a HUGE difference in handling. Sway bars would also help too as you point out. I would do those first for handling bang for the buck.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:12 PM
  #28  
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The amount of terrible advice in this thread is ridiculous, A drop will not do anything to performance, if your suspension isnt dialed in for a drop. Everybody in here who is saying drop before wheels only drives their car on the street and has never taken the stock suspension to the limits and doesnt actually know what their car can do.

A cheap coilover system will NOT be beneficial for any track use over tires. You build your suspension for performance around your tires not your coilovers.

OP get your 17s throw some sticky rubber like Hankook RS3s in 275/35/17 or throw those on the stock rims and get to driving.
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:17 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by The REAL PigPen View Post
I think the general consensus was that the OP should get his desired ride height figured out BEFORE he purchases wheels and tires. No one is going to argue that better tires have no bearing on track performance.
No he shouldn't. Ride height has no bearing on performance unless it complements other parts on the car. There is no coilover or lowering spring that is going to provide performance AND be cheap at the same time, sorry you have to pay to play. He needs tires and sways.

Originally Posted by DCJodon View Post
Sorry man, not all of us are racecar drivers like you. OP wouldn't be asking this question if he already knew the answer, therefore must not spend much time (if any) on the track. In the eyes of the daily driver/common enthusiast, suspension outweighs the benefits of wheel/tire. In the interest of adjustability, performance and ride comfort both on and off the track, coilovers are my choice for the common driver.
So if your not a racecar driver, why are you in the technical forums giving advice on adding shiit to a suspension for performance?
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:11 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by stuartc323 View Post
No he shouldn't. Ride height has no bearing on performance unless it complements other parts on the car. There is no coilover or lowering spring that is going to provide performance AND be cheap at the same time, sorry you have to pay to play. He needs tires and sways.
I NEVER said ride height has bearing on performance... I simply stated that he needs to figure out how he wants his car to sit before he spends money on tires and wheels. If he wants his car to sit lower than stock and he put 17s on his car, then he may not like the appearance afterwards and we will see 17s for sell in the Wheels and Tire section at his loss. I really don't think the OP is looking for a track queen. Our cars can handle fantastically on the track as I have experienced on a stock set-up on stock wheels on Hankooks and Nittos. I 100% agree that "budget" coils will do more harm than good and will only contribute to looks if the wheel size and tires match the ride height.

And as you obviously missed from my previous post; I will remind you of what I said:

" On that same dime; if the OP were to simply want to go wheelsOR coils, the majority of us would state the opinion of wheels. Thats a no brainer! "
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Old 06-22-2013, 06:28 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by The REAL PigPen View Post
I NEVER said ride height has bearing on performance... I simply stated that he needs to figure out how he wants his car to sit before he spends money on tires and wheels. If he wants his car to sit lower than stock and he put 17s on his car, then he may not like the appearance afterwards and we will see 17s for sell in the Wheels and Tire section at his loss. I really don't think the OP is looking for a track queen. Our cars can handle fantastically on the track as I have experienced on a stock set-up on stock wheels on Hankooks and Nittos. I 100% agree that "budget" coils will do more harm than good and will only contribute to looks if the wheel size and tires match the ride height.

And as you obviously missed from my previous post; I will remind you of what I said:

" On that same dime; if the OP were to simply want to go wheelsOR coils, the majority of us would state the opinion of wheels. Thats a no brainer! "

The point of the OP's question was to find the proper coilover or wheel setup for DD and weekend track days. You jump on talking about "drop first, yo!" and that doesnt help anyone. Your post in bold is also contradicting of your other posts on this thread and leads me to believe you have no idea wtf your talking about.

Last edited by stuartc323; 06-22-2013 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:21 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by stuartc323 View Post
The point of the OP's question was to find the proper coilover or wheel setup for DD and weekend track days. You jump on talking about "drop first, yo!" and that doesnt help anyone. Your post in bold is also contradicting of your other posts on this thread and leads me to believe you have no idea wtf your talking about.
Or maybe you just don't know how to read past your own opinions...
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:39 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by The REAL PigPen View Post
Or maybe you just don't know how to read past your own opinions...
Not really an opinion. People who actually track cars know this is a fact.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:59 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by terrasmak View Post
Not really an opinion. People who actually track cars know this is a fact.
Jesus! He's not looking for a track queen set up!
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Old 06-23-2013, 11:08 PM
  #35  
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I think OP should chime in and stop this madness.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:01 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by palepony View Post
After reading the responses, you are only going to get a proper response when you tell us your goals.

the "golden rule" stated by DCJodon is incorrect unless you are for appearance only (even that is debatable). Or pigpen's comment on "stance" or "fugly". if that is your goal, stop thread, drop it.

There is a lot more to performance than a drop.

tires are the most important upgrade, to start.
performance coilovers are for people that know what to expect from coilovers and the specs they are looking for (maybe you are). "looks coilovers" - have at it, doesn't matter what you choose.

wheel size - 18's are fine for cost purposes, 17's could be better cost wise. but again, appearance for daily is a concern, may not be for you - and may need dedicated wheels (another cost)

agree with terrasmak, the stock suspension is a good starting point to learn for track use, then progress as needed. Tires first.

Again, entirely depends on your goals.

pp
I've been to the track enough to know what problems my car has (a lot)... It's inability to keep 4 wheels on the ground and utilize maximum grip as well as handle weight transfers and body roll stick out most to me. I could care less for looks, because to me either way it's going to look good and stance and all the ******** are irrelevant
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:17 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by The REAL PigPen View Post
Jesus! He's not looking for a track queen set up!
Track queen and weekend warrior still require the same tires.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:11 AM
  #38  
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Tires. NOT wheels and tires. JUST tires. Save up for something else. The Z is a SOLID weekend track car from the factory and it looks GOOD in stock form. If anything, save up for a wider 18 or a lighter 18. Unless your track duty is drag racing, a 17 won't provide any benefit and the difference in tires is probably a weeks worth of Starbucks coffee. The Z was setup from Nissan to be, imo, one of the best factory weekend warriors of its time...for the money at least. Again, just opinion.

As far as your suspension is concerned, reducing body roll is what you want to do. Body roll lifts tires. The less tire on the ground, the less grip. Budget suspension (i.e. cheap coils) won't really do that. And I'm speaking from experience. I drift my car and my suspension has really made MUCH of a difference in my track duties. IN all honesty, I feel the car slides the same with it's stock suspension as now. It just looks better when it's 2inches from the ground. Stiffen the chassis up with sways before you go looking to drop. And, side note, that's less expensive than a coilover setup...quality or not.

Take your time. Don't be quick to rush into mods or do fads. If it's not for you, you'll regret it. And find people that DO or DID what you want to do. THOSE are the people who's brains you want to pick.

GL.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:08 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by The REAL PigPen View Post
Or maybe you just don't know how to read past your own opinions...
Originally Posted by terrasmak View Post
Not really an opinion. People who actually track cars know this is a fact.
Originally Posted by The REAL PigPen View Post
Jesus! He's not looking for a track queen set up!
Originally Posted by terrasmak View Post
Track queen and weekend warrior still require the same tires.

Like i said before, You have no idea wtf you are talking about PigPen.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:12 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Nsobh5 View Post
I've been to the track enough to know what problems my car has (a lot)... It's inability to keep 4 wheels on the ground and utilize maximum grip as well as handle weight transfers and body roll stick out most to me. I could care less for looks, because to me either way it's going to look good and stance and all the ******** are irrelevant

To reduce body roll:

1. Swaybars, look for adjustability at least 3 way
2. Bushings preferably polyurethane because you will be DDing.
3. Better Shocks w/ adjustability, Tokico D-Spec, Koni Yellows, Revalved Bilstein HDs
4. Better Springs.

Once you can take the car thru the limits of this setup, move onto coilovers. I guarantee you wont be able to pull the car to the limits of this, especially with good tires, unless you track the car all the time.
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