Stoptech. I only have Stoptech SS brakelines along with my OEM Brembo setup (Track), but by the time when I received the SS lines and got confused in installation due to my own ignorance, I emailed Zeckhausen and my vendor and got 3 direct phonecalls from techs at stoptech at that afternoon. Also I got another phonecall from them to make sure everything is right after installation was done.
Man I was impressed with such a superb customer service that I haven't experienced before. I even felt a slight guilt for giving them a hassle to call me due to some trivial problems caused by my own ignorance.
And I heard nothing but good things about Stoptech, and I think they have a great value for the price.
Heck, I won't even care about the quality of their product since I won't doubt it because if their customer service is that good, their attention to the detail should be outstanding.

BTW, Stoptech SS brakelines works like a champ!

 

That is another thing.... Customer Service

You may save a buck or two, but good luck getting an answer from one of these other "brake companies" when you have a problem.

In my case, I was shipped what was one of the first sets of the 13" kit and it was also the kit that was used for their marketing pictures and I recieved a Skykine rotor by mistake. This was Stoptech's fault, but they overnighted me a rotor and were GREAT to deal with. I could not be happier (especially after dealing with Iforged Wheels the last couple months on a clearcoat issue, but that is another story).

As far as install, it is very easy. I had changed a set of brake pads once in my life and I was able to do the install in a half a day, bleeding the brakes takes as long as the install (my G/F was my helper ). I am pretty technically inclined, but if you have the tools and basic skills it is doable.

 

Stoptech SS brakelines works like a champ!

How have they improved your brake set-up?

Have they made your brakes more responsive?

 

Thanks. I didn't feel like you were giving me a hard time, and I didn't want you to feel like I was ripping on StopTech. I have never once doubted the quality and performance of StopTech equipment.. I was just questioning whether the difference was worth the cost. The way I phrased my questions might have given you the impression that I thought StopTech was all marketing talk, but that's not the case.

Also, thanks for the technical information. The World Challenge cars you mention -- are they running stock rear brakes, or track model brembo rears? The stock rears are incredibly anemic, and very disappointing to me.. I really think Nissan skimped in the brake department.

Anyway, I must say again, I'm impressed with the customer service and the willingness to provide technical answers to customer questions. I'm already running the StopTech SS lines, and perhaps I will save a few hundred more and pick up the StopTech kit when it's time to upgrade my brakes.

 

I have watched this thread for the past few days and just wanted to set the record straight. You must compare apples to apples, not oranges.

Wilwood has been in the industry for over thirty years. They have been building brake components for racing teams for just as long. Their facility is about 200,000 square feet. All of their products are manufactured right here in Southern California and sourced from North American natural resources, not Taiwan.

Furthermore, the technical data that you represent on the Wilwood caliper is an outdated piece. Not a current model. The reason Wilwood has not put up any technical data on their products is because they dont need to. Their track record has proven their longevity and structural integrity.

All of the components used in our 350z/G35 kits are the newest and most current releases from Wilwood. From their new computer generated 6 piston caliper to their 72 vane high flow brake rotor. They are the lightest and most efficient pieces in their class. These components were not the result of mathematical equations but the result of real world testing under the most extreme conditions.

The reason Wilwood components are less expensive than the competition is hardly because of the lack of quality, but instead because of the high number volume they are manufactured in. Wilwood is not some offshore manufacturer hoping to make a break in the brake industry, no pun intended Take a look at how many different calipers they make for various applications. That alone should tell you what goes on in their camp. They dont use one caliper with different piston diameters for each application, they use different caliper s with different piston diameters for each application.

I know it wasnt too long ago that you called out Rotora to come out and play and to have an all out brake comparison test. I dont know where Rotora went, but if your offer still stands, I would like to take you up on that offer and bring what we have to the table for a comparison test. Weighing in ALL the factors.

Sherwin
Brake Zone
818 781 7777

 

That is the lamest excuse for not producing data that I've ever heard. I guess that means everyone should just assume that they have the best stuff out there then. Why bother educating customers? Why bother telling them what questions they need to ask, or why a certain component is designed the way it is...the customer should just accept that the manufacturer knows what they're doing...they don't need to justify themselves to anyone. This isn't 30 years ago. Consumers are more savvy, since info is at the touch of a mouse. If the consumer is educated, then they are smart enough to figure out on their own what they need and don't need. They don't need to accept someone saying, "this is good for you because we say it is." That's weak.

They should be computer generated...I would be scared if they weren't. Wilwood advocates always harp on lightness of the components...that's great, but not at the cost of stiffness or heat capacity. If lightness was the key objective of bbk's, then everything would be titanium. Since the testing is done under the most extreme conditions, let's see the data from that testing. What were the conditions?

That's great. I'm glad they're making a lot of them. I see you trying to take shots at us throughout this post as being an offshore manufacturer. It's odd then that on the other side of the wall from my office there is a warehouse space filled with heavy machinery such as CNC mills, lathes, large billets of raw materials, pressure testing equipment, ss brake line assembly, etc. Also, I would hardly say StopTech is 'hoping to make a break' in the brake business. That was 5 years ago when the company started, this is now. We're not going away anytime soon, and we will continue to succeed and grow.

Ahh yes, another shot at us for using our ST-40 for a huge array of applications. You mentioned that Wilwood calipers are the most efficient in the class...well, if that's the case, then consider us the most efficient manufacturer in the class, or at least the most versatile. Why would we design 10 different calipers, when variations of one versatile caliper can do the job? That's very wasteful. What that tells me about their camp is that they are not being smart in their engineering efforts. Do you know how much a new caliper casting costs?

Ok...that sounds good...since you're calling us out now, go ahead and set up the test. Let me know where we need to be and when, and I'll bring out my Z with our kit on it (or any other StopTech equipped car that you want to test). I'm not sure what ALL of the factors are, but I'm confident that we'll do just fine in all of them. I think we should do it at a road course, since that's what the purpose of a big brake kit really is anyway...and about the most 'extreme conditions' in the real world we'll be able to find. Let me know when you have it set up, and we'll definitely come out and play.

 

I never said that there wasnt any technical data to be had, I only said that that wasnt a point in their marketing. Neither is advertising. Which is exactly why you hardly ever see any magazine ads from them. They are not about providing information. They are about providing results.

I really dont know why you feel I was attacking Stoptech in any of my post. I never made any negative reference to them at all. As a matter of fact, I have always thanked you guys and all your work for opening the door for us. Your advertising has only helped us grow. My only reason for posting at all was because of your totally biased and one sided portrayal of the story.

Im sure you think I work for Wilwood but I dont. I do however do a lot of R & D work with them so I do know what goes on behind the scenes. In fact, I actually referred a customer over to you guys just yesterday because I didnt have something to offer him.

What you simply fail to mention or neglect to realize is that Wilwood is not a company dependant on building big brake kits. They build high end race components for all different types of automobiles in a huge assortment of racing environments.

We are both located here in So Cali which is blessed with some great testing arenas. I really dont think a road race track is really the place for testing brake components simply beacuse of the wide variety of variables that come into play. You, who are so inclined to being mathematical, should know that there is no way to remove all the variables that can skew the results.

I was more inclined to finding a member on the board who would like to volunteer their car for testing. We both bring out kits and install them on the same car with the same mods using the same driver. This will at least produce some quantifiable data.

 

I'd say, more consistent pedal feel over extended hard braking, and also firm pedal feel.
I like it.

 

You can use my car! I am in S. Ca and I would be more than willing... especially if I got to keep the winning set.

 

Wow, he is quick. I guess he call first dib.

 

Woohoo!
If 18 minutes is quick, I owe my wife an apology.

 

You are saying the same thing you said in your previous post, only in a different way. I still hold my position...that's a cop-out IMO, that's all.


Come on now...you were trying to push all of the usual buttons that people try to push with us. You are doing the classic, 'damning with faint praise.'

It's obviously biased, I work for the manufacturer. I also obviously think StopTech is doing it right, or I wouldn't have pushed to get a job here...I would have been knocking on Wilwood's door. I don't know what the one-sided story is...I'm just explaining the whys and hows of our brake systems. If people ask about a competitor, I tell them why our stuff is better using data points.

You signed 'brake zone' in your last post, so no, I didn't think you worked for Wilwood. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in the business who troll these boards in disguise, but I didn't think you were one of them.


I didn't fail to mention or neglect this at all. My post was not about Wilwood's business model, it was about our 13" brake kit. As I said, I'm addressing questions as they come up. As for building high-end race components, the kits that we sell for street cars are exactly the same equipment that our race cars run. Yes, we are dependent on building big brake kits...that's what we specialize in, and that's why we put our best efforts into producing the best equipment. That's why we cover as many details as we can on our kits, so it's not an afterthought of our business. It's what feeds our families.

Yes, So Cali is pretty nice in that regard. It strikes me as odd however, that you who are so confident in Wilwood testing under the most 'extreme conditions,' wouldn't want to go out to a race track, where you can hit multiple brake zones in a short span of time. Regardless, the fact remains that no matter what kind of testing you do, there will always be critics of the scientific method that is used. That's just the way it goes...lots of variables to take into account. I agree with you on that point. There is a way to test for repeatable results, and to account for a lot of those variables...that's what we try to do when we test. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than just not bothering to test. Yes.
I don't believe I've ever posted a single mathematical formula in a post...ever. After finishing my calculus credit in high school, I've sort of tried to avoid math as much as possible, although sometimes it's been a necessary evil. I like to think of myself as more of a writer really.

Ok, that's fine. Figure out your method, and give me a copy of it. I'll run it by my engineers and get their input. What kind of quantifiable results are you looking for? I would suggest rotor temps after a series of stops, stopping distances after multiple stops from different speeds, J turn test to test for front to rear balance, non-abs test for safety test to make sure the rears aren't locking up first...and anything else you want to throw in. Of course, this needs to be done with radar gun, V logic, or something of that sort if quantifiable results are to be had. Go ahead and set this up, or have your Wilwood guys prepare the method for our review...secure a car, a location, etc. Just let me know when and where you need us to be ahead of time so we can get it on our schedule.

 

...secure a car, a location, etc. Just let me know when and where you need us to be ahead of time so we can get it on our schedule.

How vigorously do I have to wave my hand before I am acknowledged as a volunteer?

 

...How is the rear kit coming along, Doc?..I'm waiting on my 14" Kit from you as we speak...(Damn those SS Brake lines, I wish they would hurry up and come in)...

 

I just figured that since you are always at the airfield doing testing, it would be easier for you to it set up. Looks like we already have a volunteer in line to donate a car as well.

We can do whatever type of testing you like. If you really want, we can go out to ButtonWillow or Streets of Willow as well. I really dont see how you can get a controlled environment on a race track but I suck at math too, so maybe your scientific method is better than mine.

 

Hang in there buddy, the 14" front kits will start shipping tomorrow and the rest will go out on Monday and Tuesday of next week.

The rear kit will also be finalized in the next few weeks.

 

Ah, well...there it is. I was expecting that. So you basically want us to foot the bill for you and Wilwood to have a free test day. You call us out...and then you want us to do the legwork, incur the expense, put our engineers out in the field for a day when they could be here working on projects, etc. Oh man. Do you honestly think that makes sense for us from a business perspective? It would make sense for us if we were struggling in the marketplace and had something to prove...fortunately, that's not the case.

As I said before, feel free to set something up and let us know. We're more than happy to show up.

 

Now, Boys......let's have fun!

This next test.....PLEASE use the same brake pads among challengers. Someone did a test making a comparison between brake components.....BUT also used different pads for each set-up. WTF

Also, the same wheels & tires are a must.

2nd also, test at a Road Course that REALLY tests brakes........like Blackhawk Farms. Hard braking, with little time to cool between applications.

 

Wow, a little heat in here. Never ment for that to happen, but now that I have both of your attention. When are the rear brake sets projected? I will not purchase until I know there is a rear 13" brake kit available to purchase. I am looking for a date here not a "this spring" or "2nd quarter 2004".

 

I've got the Wilwood 14" kit on my car and im located in So Cal, I already told DocofMind he can use my car for this test whenever you guys set it up..

Doing business with DocofMind has been a really good experience and taught me a lot.. before we even discussed doing the test kit on my 350, he was telling me what brake kits were the best out there, and StopTech was one of the kits he mentioned as being one of the best.. You (J Ritt) and DocofMind are both honest guys promoting a product in a civil, mature manner which is really a rarity on message boards these days and for that i think that both of you should be commended. Like i said when the rear kit is finished and installed, i volunteer my car as a test car since the the fronts are on and i absolutely LOVE them! I'm very confident in the Wilwood kit, but at the same time the only thing that will come from this test is just more information about TWO great kits for consumers in the market for high-performance brake kits.. its a win/win situation for both kits.