I having been reading some about big brake upgrades and would like to know what everyones thoughts are on the various companies. I need to go with a 13" kit due to my stock 17" wheels for winter use. I am also unsure of issues like ABS and TCS and if they are effected or not by going to aftermarket braking systems? Driving in the snow, I would never give up either. Also, does anyone have a 4 wheel 13" kit at this time? Thanks in advance.

 

STOPTECH, is coming out with a 4-wheel 13" kit very very soon.

I would recommend them for any of your brake needs.

 

What size are the stck brembo's?

 

12.76" front
12.68" rear

 

The StopTech and Wilwood kits both look great. The Wilwood kit will be significantly less expensive. StopTech claims that the Wilwood calipers suffer from more flex than the ST40 calipers they use. I'm not convinced that it makes a big enough difference to justify the price. I can't find any other big differences. StopTech will also try to claim that their "AeroRotor" is much better than the Wilwood rotors, but again, I'm not really convinced. I hear a lot of marketing talk, but not enough technical data to illustrate the difference and how it affects braking performance.

I'm undecided between the two, but don't have enough cash at the moment anyway, so I guess it's a moot point for me.

 

Stoptech... or OEM Brembos from someone selling a Track model set.

 

If you want stop tech

PM me for my super special pricing

 

Is there anyone who actually has a 4 wheel 13" kit out right now. I do not like to buy based on something that might happen, meaning a 13" rear brake setup from Stoptech or Willwood, but would rather buy something that is or wait until Stoptech or Willwood are. I would hate to buy a front setup from either and have neither finish their rear setup, man that would suck.

 

Azreal,
I'm not sure how much time you've spent on our website, but we have a wealth of technical data there. We have charts on Caliper deflection and rotor airflow.
http://www.stoptech.com/technical/ca...ctionchart.htm
http://www.stoptech.com/technical/airflowchart.htm
I have yet to see any sort of detailed technical data come from Wilwood. Most of the kits out there using Wilwood calipers are pieced together by various vendors, and they are NOT tested under controlled, repeatable conditions for each vehicle. They were not engineered specifically to work optimally with the Z's stock master cylinder, abs, ebd, etc. StopTech is the only company doing this right now. Each kit is built as needed, specifically for each application...then it is tested using a standard battery of procedures.

Here are the facts:
StopTech calipers are stiffer...this means better pedal feel, and less 'slack' in the system. The calipers do their job more efficiently.
StopTech's AeroRotor is the best flowing rotor on the market, period. The result is that it runs cooler, and lasts longer. The brake pads have less heat in them as a result as well...less chance of fade, and more longevity. Additionally, the rotor is a floating design, and the Wilwood kit is not. The result...less chance of coning (warping) of the rotor. I'm not sure what you consider 'marketing talk,' but take a look at what our rotors can do under real-world race conditions...http://www.stoptech.com/press_releas...hunderhill.htm

I saw prices on this board in the $1650-$1850 for Wilwood kits. The StopTech retail price is $1995 for our 13" kit. To me, it is worth a few hundred bucks to have a vastly superior setup that has been proven on the track by pros and the average Joe. The kits we sell in our street kits are EXACTLY the same as the ones our pro race teams use. To top it off, out kits look 1000 times better IMO! I think if you held the components from each kit in your hand, you would know which system you wanted. You can see and feel the quality and durability of our stuff when you touch it.

Azreal, what has Wilwood provided in terms of technical info that would give you the impression that there 350Z kit would be comparable to our product? I'm very curious. Thanks!

zzzya...our 13" rear kit is not a maybe...it's on the way. Regardless, the rear is not even necessary. I run the front only kit. All of our World Challenge guys do the same.

 

I've been to a few trackdays, and I've seen far more Stoptech brake kits than any others.

As an engineer, I like the fact that Stoptech puts info, data, and general theoretical formulas all over their website. I have not been able to find that same level of detail from any other mfg.

Finally, as a consumer, I like the fact that Stoptech people have been active on this site from the very beginning, even before J Ritt started working there. I also like the fact that they admit their best kit (for pretty much non-pro racers) is the 13" front only kit. They've been very up front that the 14" 4 wheel kit is pretty much better only for the "bling" factor. They also state that their kits will typically not reduce stopping distances (at least the first time). They acknowledge that as long as you are able to lock the brakes, you are being limited by tires and not by the brakes. They are very firm in promoting the brakes as being more fade resistant, and therefore stopping you much better the 10th time or 100th time.

All these things make Stoptech seem like a very good company. Of course, I haven't bought a kit yet, but if I ever decide to get out of stock AutoX classes, then I would get a Stoptech kit (unless some other company comes around that seems to offer more).

-D'oh!

 

Board member 'DocOfMind', who (I believe) owns a company called BrakeZone, puts together kits based on Wilwood parts for a number of vehicles. He started with the S2000. He designed the kit that is discussed in the other thread in this forum.

I know several people running his Wilwood kits on the S2000 and they are fantastic. I've driven a Wilwood shod S2000, and I was very impressed. Their S2000 kit as well as the 350Z kit are designed to match stock piston areas and balance the front-to-rear bias. StopTech is not the only company that does this -- they're just the only ones advertising it.

I have seen StopTech's technical data on the caliper flex as well as rotor airflow.. but that doesn't really tell me how much it matters. I can see from the chart that according to your tests, the Wilwood SuperLite-6 caliper flexed ~20/1000", compared to the ST-40, at 7/1000" . But is that something that I'm going to notice? Especially when you add in factors like knockback, which every caliper is susceptible to, I really doubt that I'm ever going to notice the extra 13/1000" of caliper flex.

With the AeroRotor, I have the same issue. Airflow might be better, but will I notice it? Perhaps, but I'm not yet convinced.

Also, the DocOfMind/BrakeZone kit has a floating rotor, just like the StopTech kit. There is another kit from Wilwood parts out there that doesn't have a floating rotor, perhaps that's where you got this info.

Anyway.. for a 4-wheel 13" kit, you stand to pay ~$700 more for the StopTech name, and I'm just questioning whether it's worth it. The price difference for a 14" brake kit is even larger. My car will never visit a car show or enter any beauty contests, so the fact that it looks "1000 times better" doesn't particularly matter to me. Quality, performance, and value rank first.

I definitely won't argue StopTech quality and performance -- you guys have a fantastic kit, and I'd love to own one.. but I have to consider value as well, and $4000 is a heck of a lot of cash to spend on a brake kit that only gets exercised on track days.. 9 or 10 times a year.

I apologize if you think I was trying to trash your product.. like I said before, it's a great kit, probably the best out there. I just don't have $4k laying around at the moment.

 

Stoptech all the way.... If the price difference is less than $300-400 I would pay the extra dough for the Stoptechs.

Another thing about the Stoptechs and improved braking: 4 pistons move a lot faster than one (as is the design of the stock Z brakes), so distance may not improve much, but reaction time is much better, it is like a shorter stopping distance.... I only bring this up as a reason to upgrade, no matter the brand.

 

4 pistons don't move faster than one. The reason for multiple pistons is to distribute the clamping force across the pad more evenly. With the stock 1-piston setup, you have the piston putting pressure only on the center of the pad. With 4 (or 6 pistons) in an aftermarket caliper, you get the pressure distributed over to the edges of the pad as well. It has absolutely nothing to do with the speed of piston movement or "reaction time."

The primary motivation for brake upgrade is to improve heat capacity, thus allowing the brakes to work harder, longer. To reduce stopping distance, you need to buy better tires.

 

But for the "Bling" factor, what other companies out there are willing to make a Z kit so that we may pay them to advertise? Also, what are the quality ratings of companies like Rotora, AP Racing, Endless (for that cool, Japanese sounding name), and Grex Alcon? I've spotted all these on Zs (maybe not Endless calipers, but Endless pads) but neither for sale nor on any stateside forum-member Zs. It cannot be that as a community we are "anti-bling" (perhaps more so than Cadillac, Neon, or Civic communities), because we see too many weird mods already. Certainly this would be more respectable than smoking the taillights?!?! No offense, I was just looking for more info.

 

Do both the Stoptech and Willwood 13" kits fit under the stock 17" wheels? I thought I read they did but I guess I should make sure.

 

zzzya,

Contact the vendors for the stoptech, I'm pretty sure their 13" rotor kit do fit the stock 17" wheels.

We do offer the 13" Wilwood Big brake kit. They will made to fit the stock 17" wheels.

Landbarger,

If you are asking regarding JDM bling factor. There's also other kits like Project Mu, Amuse, Espirit. And I have seen the Brembo F40 kit on a z in magazine before.

 

J Ritt,
Can you give me some feedback as far as the level of difficulty in doing a big brake upgrade. In order to save a few bucks I'd like to try the upgrade myself but am a little hesitant due to the obvious importance of the braking system.

I have stock 18" wheels that I want to fit with a set of 13" StopTechs would the ABS, VDC or any other system be compromised with such an upgrade?

 

Do you mean to tell me that Wilwood engineers went out to an airfield or racetrack and tested this system? I'll say it again, we are the ONLY ones doing this on each application. Doing the calculations on paper can only tell you so much. Our testing includes 60-0, 100-0, and J Turn testing. We also disconnect abs to ensure that the system will work properly in case the factory abs system fails for some reason. An added benefit of this testing is that it allows us to fine tune in small increments. Sometimes we bump the coefficient of friction up slightly on a pad to see the effect on stopping distance, or bump the piston sizes down a bit to find what is optimal via the radar gun. This is something that calculations on paper can't tell you.

The answer to this question is yes. There are some pro drivers that we've dealt with that claim they can feel pad compression! Now, that is a bit extreme, but the reality is that the Wilwood calipers are significantly more flexible, and many people CAN feel a difference. It's definitely hard to quantify something like that, I agree...but there is a difference in pedal feel. My engineer makes a good analogy, 'the difference between our caliper and the wilwood, is like the difference between a stock rubber brake line and our stainless lines.'

Again, this is a noticeable difference on many fronts. I've seen the difference between rotor temps out at our airfield testing. Our rotors run cooler, period. As you said, the goal of a big brake system is thermal capacity. If you keep the temps down through superior vane design...the result is improved heat dissapation... then you're essentially increasing the capacity of the system. You can put more heat in faster, because it goes away faster, and is less likely to saturate. The result is longer pad life, longer rotor life, and less chance of fade. This doesn't even take into account the metullurgy, which also contributes to longevity and resistance to cracking. We get our rotors form Pilenga, a top foundry in Italy. I'm not sure where the Wilwood rotors are sourced from, so I can't say.

Sorry if I was mistaken. How does the Wilwood rotor float...in other words, what is the design...does it use spring clips. Our system uses inconel washers that don't rattle like the brembo and most others use. Also, our hats have directional standoffs, that help reduce uneven pad wear...outer pads tend to wear faster, so we direct airflow across the outer face of the rotor through the standoffs, balancing inner vs. outer wear. I wouldn't exactly say DocofMind's floating rotor is 'just like the StopTech kit.'

You're paying the extra money for a lot more than the StopTech name. The reality is that you are paying for a higher quality product. You are paying for all of the details that I mentioned above, that nobody else has bothered to incorporate into a system. You're paying for the knowledge of our engineers that sit upstairs and can answer the questions my customers give me. You're paying for my presence on this board and out at the track...for me to listen to what the customers want and get the products made. We look at it as paying a little less vs. Brembo, for slightly higher quality.

As for the looks of the system...that doesn't concern me all that much either...I'd put it on my car if it looked like a turd and still stopped me like a parachute. You would be surprised by how many people just want something that looks good...and it looks like a million $ on the car.

You mentioned that you don't have $4k sitting around to buy a kit...well, the beauty is that you don't need a 4 wheel kit in the first place. I run our 332mm front only kit without any troubles on the street or track. This is what our World Challenge cars run...they don't use our 4 wheel kits. Yes, you do have to deal with rear pad wear. It's not that terrible though. The pads are small and cheap, and you can get a handful of days out of each set on the track. At $1995, our 332 is BY FAR the best value on the market. You get all of of the little details that are engineered into the product from scratch, and you get more support than you get from anyone else.

I haven't even mentioned pad choices, of which we have about 20 in various compounds from the top manufacturers....something to fit every street or track condition from PFC, Hawk, Pagid, Ferodo, Axxis, Cobalt, etc.

Actually, that's not completely true...if the total piston volume is greater, it would take more fluid to move 6 pistons. The more important fact is that pedal travel is improved with smaller piston volumes...you don't have to stomp it to the floor to get adequate clamping...less fluid volume to move.

All in all, you seem to be approaching StopTech as if we are some sort of marketing machine with a big name. That is far from the truth. We are a small company focused on developing the most thoroughly engineered and balanced brake systems. Our name is growing because of the tireless efforts of the founders of the company. The company has only been in existence since 1999, but they've accomplished a lot. That's because of the attention to details. Those little details make all of the difference...whether it's the product itself, or the committment to service customers. It's not hype...ask the owners on this board that track their cars...the'll tell you what StopTech is all about.

Azreal, I would seriously consider one of our 2 wheel kits. It's most of the performance for a lot less money.

 

Our 13" kit fits the stock 17" wheels (and both 18" stock wheels). Our 14" kits fit the stock 18" performance/touring wheel and the 18" track wheels.

Zteve_350Z,
I would say the install is pretty basic if you are comfortable using simple hand tools. I would take a look at one of our install guides on the link I will provide, and see if you think you're in over your head. The best thing to do is just put a day aside to do the job...do not rush. Have a friend help you do it...it's more fun that way as well. Check out this install guide and let us know if you have any questions. My customer service mgr. would be happy to help: http://www.stoptech.com/technical/installation.htm

Azrael, I should have mentioned...I'm not trying to give you a hard time...I just want you to understand what has gone into the StopTech equipment, and the support that continues to go into it. To us, it's more than just throwing a bunch of parts together. We're all a bunch of car nuts that love racing. If I come across as some kind of zealot or something...what can I say, I'm proud to sell this stuff.

 

For more info, here's a link to an article that Dave Zeckhausen (frequent contributor to this board and general brake guru) wrote about the testing that StopTech did while developing their kit for the 350Z:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm

I don't know how much more specific a test for a heat-dissipation solution can be than taking and publishing the temperature readings that are found in this article. Additionally, the article details the testing for compatibility with yaw control and ABS that StopTech performed when developing this kit.

For those who are price shopping between other brake manufacturers and StopTech, I would suggest actually 'shopping' (as in, contacting vendors to see what they will do to get your business - *cough* Jason@Performance *cough*)

Personally, I admitted defeat in my ridiculously long battle with the stock non-Brembos after my most recent track day. After a lengthy research period, I decided on StopTech (who I have no affiliation with) and ordered my 13" front kit earlier today. They can't get here fast enough!

Gary