Swirls/Light Scratches are Pissing me Off
04-18-2005, 09:24 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by myz8a4re
damn, looks like im staying away from these DF towels....
thanx for your input dave, i really appreciate it!
can somone post a link to a good detail supplier online where i can buy some of these car care products? my local shops just offer the usual garbage products( as far as microfiber towels goes)....
thanx,
-justin
thanx for your input dave, i really appreciate it!
can somone post a link to a good detail supplier online where i can buy some of these car care products? my local shops just offer the usual garbage products( as far as microfiber towels goes)....
thanx,
-justin
properautocare.com, autopia.org, pakshak.com, even my Costco micro fiber wash mitts passed the CD-scratch test without a single scratch, and they were less than 2 bucks each.
04-18-2005, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DavesZ#3
When I first read this I though "this guy is crazy". I've used DF towels for over a year now on my Z and don't have any swirl marks. I thought "maybe he's got a counterfeit DF towel". Just for the hell of it I decided to do the CD test and to my shock and horror, the CD is covered with scratches!!!!!!
I too wash them by themselves in warm water with liquid soap and partially dry them in the dryer then hang them up to dry the rest of the way. I'm obsessively careful with them, to the point of keeping them sealed in ziploc bags to protect them. WTF is going on???
I have a few cotton towels that I use and I treat them with care too. They get washed separately with the same liquid detergent and follow the same drying process. I tried the CD test on them and there wasn't a scratch on the CD. That lead me to believe there's nothing wrong with the way I handle them. I just wish I had done the CD test on the DF towels when they were new.
I too wash them by themselves in warm water with liquid soap and partially dry them in the dryer then hang them up to dry the rest of the way. I'm obsessively careful with them, to the point of keeping them sealed in ziploc bags to protect them. WTF is going on???
I have a few cotton towels that I use and I treat them with care too. They get washed separately with the same liquid detergent and follow the same drying process. I tried the CD test on them and there wasn't a scratch on the CD. That lead me to believe there's nothing wrong with the way I handle them. I just wish I had done the CD test on the DF towels when they were new.
04-19-2005, 08:54 AM
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erockoneskee... This is the first time anyone has ever said DF Concours towels have caused scratches. I'd be very curious to see the towel you tested. Contact me at 866-DFTOWEL so I can get you a new one as I'd like you to send the culprit to me.
04-19-2005, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by zand02max
IHow many coats of Z-5 does it take? I know you can only do two coats in a 24 hour period.
BTW, my previous Z, a PPW, was not as bad, I guess you really notice on the brighter colors!
BTW, my previous Z, a PPW, was not as bad, I guess you really notice on the brighter colors!
Second, you may actually apply up to 3 coats of Z5 in on session if you use the ZFX hardening agent in the first 2. Then apply / remove the 3rd. The number of Z5 applications required will depend.
There is another post indicating that the DF towels actually cause swirl marks!
Good luck!
04-19-2005, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by bixby
First, Stop using the DF towels. Use either MF or 100% cotton.
Second, you may actually apply up to 3 coats of Z5 in on session if you use the ZFX hardening agent in the first 2. Then apply / remove the 3rd. The number of Z5 applications required will depend.
There is another post indicating that the DF towels actually cause swirl marks!
Good luck!
Second, you may actually apply up to 3 coats of Z5 in on session if you use the ZFX hardening agent in the first 2. Then apply / remove the 3rd. The number of Z5 applications required will depend.
There is another post indicating that the DF towels actually cause swirl marks!
Good luck!
04-19-2005, 11:56 AM
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LOL.... What a loop! I went to look for the thread about the DF towels and it lead me back to this thread!!
Please "scratch"
what I said about DF towels.
Please "scratch"
what I said about DF towels.
04-19-2005, 01:34 PM
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DF Towels are in fact microfiber. It simply may be a possibility that i got a bad set of towels... regardless, i will allow Mr. Cerruti to prove me wrong because he gives me the impression of an honest businessman who takes pride in his work.
Leo if you read this check your PM's, i responded to you.
on another note, my towels from autopia.org came in today and they are passing the cd-scratch test with flying colors.
Leo if you read this check your PM's, i responded to you.
on another note, my towels from autopia.org came in today and they are passing the cd-scratch test with flying colors.
04-19-2005, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by erockoneskee
...my towels from autopia.org came in today and they are passing the cd-scratch test with flying colors.
Eric, I've sent you a new towel, don't forget to return the one in question so I can take a look see.
-----------
For anyone who is interested a lesson on the infamous CD test:
Most all towel and polishing accessory manufacturers agree that the CD test is not very definitive. It is only a guide to help you determine if a product or combination of products "may" be right for you.
No CD test is valid unless you are using a new, washed, unused towel. Any towel or pad that was used then cleaned may contain hard wax or grit which can scratch.
You all should know that the surface of the CD is many times softer than that of your ca's paint. What may scratch a CD may not scratch the clearcoat on the car.
Most importantly when doing the CD test, use the same pressure and technique as you would on your car. You certainly wouldn't put all your weight on one finger and rub very hard on your car without polish would you? The same applies to the CD, you need to appy some wax or polish or QD spray and buff it off as you would on your car. Do not use all your strength on a dry CD, it's just not a proper indicator.
If you really want a proper test medium go to your local body shop and ask for a piece of discarded auto body. Cut a panel from it and use that for your testing.
Last edited by DFTowel; 04-19-2005 at 02:27 PM.
04-19-2005, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DFTowel
Just curious, are these the Concours Buffing Towels?
Eric, I've sent you a new towel, don't forget to return the one in question so I can take a look see.
Eric, I've sent you a new towel, don't forget to return the one in question so I can take a look see.
No they aren't the Concours Buffing towels, they are the blue pearl 6-pack and the Sonus ultimate detailing 2-pack.
hopefully you received my e-mail before shipping the new towel. My shipping address has changed. Also, i had a wash mitt AND concours buffing towel purchased both directly from your website. Please send replacements for both as they both scratched the cd.
04-19-2005, 07:05 PM
#31
Originally Posted by DFTowel
No CD test is valid unless you are using a new, washed, unused towel. Any towel or pad that was used then cleaned may contain hard wax or grit which can scratch.
I am very careful with my microfiber and DF towels (especially those considering the $$). You'd have a hard time convincing me that they are contaminated by dirt or were improperly cleaned. All I use the DF towels for is to remove Z-2, Z-6 and Z-5. Other than Zaino forming some kind of special bond with them I can't see what I did wrong?
Dave
04-20-2005, 05:51 AM
#33
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OK, I would like to go back to an earlier question about clay bars. Yes, they do have uses, even when using a polish. A polish and a clay bar have totally different functions. A polish removes swirl marks and such from the paint with mild abrasives. A clay bar removes contaminants from the paint, ie bugs, tree sap, and such that become stuck in your car's paint.
So if you are going to polish your car, I would absolutely clay the car first, no question especially if it is an older car. For instance, if you skip claying the car, and do the polish, some of those contaminants that are STILL on your paint could get dragged across the paint, causing more scratches making your polishing totally useless.
If you are lazy and don't want to clay the whole car, least get the high impact areas like the front bumper, hood, and such, areas where things hit the paint at high velocity and stay there. This will cut down on any scratches on the car. But if you just go with the polish, you will "knock the tops" off of some of the contaminants and make them stay in your paint or just drag them across your paint. Both are bad situations.
Just clay, then polish to be safe. Just to let you know, you can put on 100 coats of wax, and it will do nothing for actually getting rid of the swirls. The only way the swirls will go away is with good prep work on the paint by claying, polishing, then worrying about waxing. Wax is just the finishing step to seal the paint. A deep and wet shine only comes from good prep work. As for the types of products, I prefer polishes without fillers, cause the fillers go away quickly anyway. I would rather have my paint naked, so I can see how much work I have done, and how much work I will have to do to get all the swirls truely out of my paint. 3M does have these fillers, I prefer something like Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner Polish as a good starting point.
As for the towels, use a good waffle weave and you will be fine. Wash them separately, dry them separately with no fabric softener. To keep yourself from putting in new swirls, these kind of towels are a must after doing all that polishing work. This work ain't easy, it takes hard work and a good buffer, such as a Porter Cable.
So if you are going to polish your car, I would absolutely clay the car first, no question especially if it is an older car. For instance, if you skip claying the car, and do the polish, some of those contaminants that are STILL on your paint could get dragged across the paint, causing more scratches making your polishing totally useless.
If you are lazy and don't want to clay the whole car, least get the high impact areas like the front bumper, hood, and such, areas where things hit the paint at high velocity and stay there. This will cut down on any scratches on the car. But if you just go with the polish, you will "knock the tops" off of some of the contaminants and make them stay in your paint or just drag them across your paint. Both are bad situations.
Just clay, then polish to be safe. Just to let you know, you can put on 100 coats of wax, and it will do nothing for actually getting rid of the swirls. The only way the swirls will go away is with good prep work on the paint by claying, polishing, then worrying about waxing. Wax is just the finishing step to seal the paint. A deep and wet shine only comes from good prep work. As for the types of products, I prefer polishes without fillers, cause the fillers go away quickly anyway. I would rather have my paint naked, so I can see how much work I have done, and how much work I will have to do to get all the swirls truely out of my paint. 3M does have these fillers, I prefer something like Meguiar's Dual Action Cleaner Polish as a good starting point.
As for the towels, use a good waffle weave and you will be fine. Wash them separately, dry them separately with no fabric softener. To keep yourself from putting in new swirls, these kind of towels are a must after doing all that polishing work. This work ain't easy, it takes hard work and a good buffer, such as a Porter Cable.
04-21-2005, 09:16 AM
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My $.02 on removing swirls and light scratches. Get some of the Menzerna products from properautocare.com. I use the 3 steps with a Porter Cable 7424 and it looks great when complete. It takes some time to do all 3 levels of the Menzerna but it's totally worth it. I have a Brickyard and do this each winter before it comes out in the spring. Pic below is after buffing with the 3 levels of Menzerna........NO WAX or ZAINO of any kind on the car. Swirls.....gone. No fillers.
04-21-2005, 09:22 AM
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Another good alternative for the PC is to use the Einzsett Metallic Polish or Paint Polish. I had very good luck using these on my fiance's Monte Carlo that looked like it had been dragged under a bunch of sticks.
04-25-2005, 09:49 AM
#36
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Dont you wash with Dawn BEFORE you polish? Otherwise, arent you just polishing wax that will get removed anyways?
Also, this weekend I used 3m Finish Restorer (8 bucks) and a basic random orbital buffer, after washing with Dawn, Claybar-ing, and polishing, I really really reduced the swirls. I may try this again in a month when my wax wears down.
Also, this weekend I used 3m Finish Restorer (8 bucks) and a basic random orbital buffer, after washing with Dawn, Claybar-ing, and polishing, I really really reduced the swirls. I may try this again in a month when my wax wears down.
04-25-2005, 01:00 PM
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tacomaboy your rewashing the car after claying & before polishing right? what type of polish did you use before the finish restorer? or was that the only polish you used?
-justin
-justin
04-25-2005, 01:03 PM
#38
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I thought about rewashing it, but it didnt need it. Wiping the QD spray off with an MF towel left it really clean. (I used Meguires Gold Class). And actually I didnt use a regular polish. By polishing I meant the Quick Restorer.. to my understanding the quick restorer is essentially a polish right?
At any rate, it did come out looking really good. I am still learning as I go too..
At any rate, it did come out looking really good. I am still learning as I go too..
04-25-2005, 01:25 PM
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i too am still in the learning process of correct detailing. i learned alot from the helpful detailers here. i learned to rewash the car after claybaring to remove all the contaminants that still lay on the paint that the claybar pulled up but didnt stick to the bar. i figured it cant hurt anyways & ensures the surface is deffinately clean before i go polishing anything into the paint!
yes the finish restorer is a polish, as im sure you know there are numerous grades of polish. ive used a few of the 3m products & really liked them. but my 1st attempt to polish my z i went with the 3m swirl remover & found it worked more like a final polish better used after a more aggressive cut polish. it really didnt do much for the swirl marks. so the last time i polished i used the 3m perfect-it fine cut polish wich cut much better, then followed with the 3m swirl mark remover. the 2 together worked very well...of course i topped off with my favorite wax. i havent used the finish restorer yet but i can say the fine cut poilsh works very well! lastly, i found that different pads for my buffer made a BIG difference in how the polish works. the foam pads are always safe but there are pads that work more aggressive & will actually make the surface haze with the same polish. my buddy has some experience with a circular buffer(wich scares me) & did my hood for me with the same polish i used on the rest of my car. his circular buffer with a wool type disc actually hazed my hood, totally freaked me out! but when i used my orbital buffer with the swirl remover over it the hood looked better than the rest of the car......i need to learn how to use a circular buffer!!
-justin
yes the finish restorer is a polish, as im sure you know there are numerous grades of polish. ive used a few of the 3m products & really liked them. but my 1st attempt to polish my z i went with the 3m swirl remover & found it worked more like a final polish better used after a more aggressive cut polish. it really didnt do much for the swirl marks. so the last time i polished i used the 3m perfect-it fine cut polish wich cut much better, then followed with the 3m swirl mark remover. the 2 together worked very well...of course i topped off with my favorite wax. i havent used the finish restorer yet but i can say the fine cut poilsh works very well! lastly, i found that different pads for my buffer made a BIG difference in how the polish works. the foam pads are always safe but there are pads that work more aggressive & will actually make the surface haze with the same polish. my buddy has some experience with a circular buffer(wich scares me) & did my hood for me with the same polish i used on the rest of my car. his circular buffer with a wool type disc actually hazed my hood, totally freaked me out! but when i used my orbital buffer with the swirl remover over it the hood looked better than the rest of the car......i need to learn how to use a circular buffer!!
-justin
04-25-2005, 01:30 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by myz8a4re
i too am still in the learning process of correct detailing. i learned alot from the helpful detailers here. i learned to rewash the car after claybaring to remove all the contaminants that still lay on the paint that the claybar pulled up but didnt stick to the bar. i figured it cant hurt anyways & ensures the surface is deffinately clean before i go polishing anything into the paint!
yes the finish restorer is a polish, as im sure you know there are numerous grades of polish. ive used a few of the 3m products & really liked them. but my 1st attempt to polish my z i went with the 3m swirl remover & found it worked more like a final polish better used after a more aggressive cut polish. it really didnt do much for the swirl marks. so the last time i polished i used the 3m perfect-it fine cut polish wich cut much better, then followed with the 3m swirl mark remover. the 2 together worked very well...of course i topped off with my favorite wax. i havent used the finish restorer yet but i can say the fine cut poilsh works very well! lastly, i found that different pads for my buffer made a BIG difference in how the polish works. the foam pads are always safe but there are pads that work more aggressive & will actually make the surface haze with the same polish. my buddy has some experience with a circular buffer(wich scares me) & did my hood for me with the same polish i used on the rest of my car. his circular buffer with a wool type disc actually hazed my hood, totally freaked me out! but when i used my orbital buffer with the swirl remover over it the hood looked better than the rest of the car......i need to learn how to use a circular buffer!!
-justin
yes the finish restorer is a polish, as im sure you know there are numerous grades of polish. ive used a few of the 3m products & really liked them. but my 1st attempt to polish my z i went with the 3m swirl remover & found it worked more like a final polish better used after a more aggressive cut polish. it really didnt do much for the swirl marks. so the last time i polished i used the 3m perfect-it fine cut polish wich cut much better, then followed with the 3m swirl mark remover. the 2 together worked very well...of course i topped off with my favorite wax. i havent used the finish restorer yet but i can say the fine cut poilsh works very well! lastly, i found that different pads for my buffer made a BIG difference in how the polish works. the foam pads are always safe but there are pads that work more aggressive & will actually make the surface haze with the same polish. my buddy has some experience with a circular buffer(wich scares me) & did my hood for me with the same polish i used on the rest of my car. his circular buffer with a wool type disc actually hazed my hood, totally freaked me out! but when i used my orbital buffer with the swirl remover over it the hood looked better than the rest of the car......i need to learn how to use a circular buffer!!
-justin
It really sucks havign to learn on a new Z
