3M Paint Protection Failure (pics)
12-04-2002, 12:06 AM
#21
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typicaly the only way to tear this material is with an impact that would otherwise have put a dent in the hood and therefore have not been protected with even a vinyl bra(see the pic), like it was stated earlier, its impossible to know for sure just how the film was imapcted or if the paint damage would have been larger without the film installed but thats niether here nor there at this point. Perhaps the most unfortunate part of your situation is that this happened almost immediatly after your installation, you must be feeling that a month from now the whole kit will look like some kind of swiss-cheese fiasco hanging off your car, I dont blame you. I can assure you though that I have seen this film resist some pretty impressive rocks with little more than a temporary mar on the surface, and there are many, many people on other forums I speak to(audiworld.com and bimmerfest.com to name a couple) that have had continued long term trouble free success with their installs for years. In any case I hope this hasnt completely discouraged you toward protecting your car, this WILL NOT be a common occurance, after you have it on for a while you will see the amount of damage that it has saved you from, I promise! Hopefully Edre can help you out, let us know what happens!
Jeremy
Jeremy
Last edited by krinkov; 12-04-2002 at 12:26 AM.
12-04-2002, 11:25 AM
#23
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UPDATE
Originally posted by krinkov
typicaly the only way to tear this material is with an impact that would otherwise have put a dent in the hood and therefore have not been protected with even a vinyl bra(see the pic), like it was stated earlier, its impossible to know for sure just how the film was imapcted or if the paint damage would have been larger without the film installed but thats niether here nor there at this point. Perhaps the most unfortunate part of your situation is that this happened almost immediatly after your installation, you must be feeling that a month from now the whole kit will look like some kind of swiss-cheese fiasco hanging off your car, I dont blame you. I can assure you though that I have seen this film resist some pretty impressive rocks with little more than a temporary mar on the surface, and there are many, many people on other forums I speak to(audiworld.com and bimmerfest.com to name a couple) that have had continued long term trouble free success with their installs for years. In any case I hope this hasnt completely discouraged you toward protecting your car, this WILL NOT be a common occurance, after you have it on for a while you will see the amount of damage that it has saved you from, I promise! Hopefully Edre can help you out, let us know what happens!
Jeremy
typicaly the only way to tear this material is with an impact that would otherwise have put a dent in the hood and therefore have not been protected with even a vinyl bra(see the pic), like it was stated earlier, its impossible to know for sure just how the film was imapcted or if the paint damage would have been larger without the film installed but thats niether here nor there at this point. Perhaps the most unfortunate part of your situation is that this happened almost immediatly after your installation, you must be feeling that a month from now the whole kit will look like some kind of swiss-cheese fiasco hanging off your car, I dont blame you. I can assure you though that I have seen this film resist some pretty impressive rocks with little more than a temporary mar on the surface, and there are many, many people on other forums I speak to(audiworld.com and bimmerfest.com to name a couple) that have had continued long term trouble free success with their installs for years. In any case I hope this hasnt completely discouraged you toward protecting your car, this WILL NOT be a common occurance, after you have it on for a while you will see the amount of damage that it has saved you from, I promise! Hopefully Edre can help you out, let us know what happens!
Jeremy
Anyway, I got off the phone w/ Reggie @ xpel, and here's what he said in a nutshell: Because I didn't purchase the kit from HIM or Xpel directly, they won't cover JACK. He said that the burden of compensation for all costs involved rests with the installer...in my case, Edre @ Envisage. Now, I'm sure that Edre has no clue about this (are you aware, Jeremy?). I emailed Edre and am waiting on his reply. If this is indeed the case, then I'm sure that half of the qualified installers would probably quit today, because they won't want the potential out-of-pocket costs associated with incidents like mine. Dean: you called it!!
12-04-2002, 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by BillyV
Justin, The moral of the story is that it means little to have the stuff on the car.
Justin, The moral of the story is that it means little to have the stuff on the car.
The only way you can say what you're saying is to have no real experience with the product. Don't want it? Fine, don't buy it. But don't tell someone it does not work - it very clearly does. Is it perfect? No. But tell me what is.
And if you really want to collect stone chips get your car repainted and watch them accumulate even faster.
joe
12-04-2002, 01:14 PM
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Joe,
I agree with your post entirely. I think that it is a disservice to those with Nissan's chip prone paint to say that "it means little to have the stuff (Xpel) on the car. " BillyV nihilism about the products effectiveness is incorrect.
The film works, and works well. There is a slight cosmetic trade-off but those who don't have it are in for one BIG disappointment. The paint chip issue on 350Z's will make the orange peel problem seem trivial. It'll take about 6-12 months for the sad reports to come filing in. Check www.nissanpaint.com for a preview.
Here's a 2002 Maxima hood as an illustrative example:
Nissan paint chipping
I agree with your post entirely. I think that it is a disservice to those with Nissan's chip prone paint to say that "it means little to have the stuff (Xpel) on the car. " BillyV nihilism about the products effectiveness is incorrect.
The film works, and works well. There is a slight cosmetic trade-off but those who don't have it are in for one BIG disappointment. The paint chip issue on 350Z's will make the orange peel problem seem trivial. It'll take about 6-12 months for the sad reports to come filing in. Check www.nissanpaint.com for a preview.
Here's a 2002 Maxima hood as an illustrative example:
Nissan paint chipping
Last edited by Dean; 12-04-2002 at 01:16 PM.
12-04-2002, 01:54 PM
#26
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You'll notice that cops dont wear "bullet proof" vests anymore, they call them "bullet resistant" but I dont think you will find a cop that would forego wearing a vest altogther just because theres a chance it wont stop the most powerful rounds out there. Same goes for paint protectin film, to not protect your car at all due to the off chance that a small chip might get through is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
As far as Xpel goes, they basically just design these kits, the dealers use thier own material then cut and install them, so you have to see where they are coming from on warranty coverage, holding them responsible for something like this is kind of like holding Dupont responsible for a bodyshop giving you a poor paint job with thier paint
in any case, all Xpel dealers know this and should have their own warranty, let us know how it goes!
As far as Xpel goes, they basically just design these kits, the dealers use thier own material then cut and install them, so you have to see where they are coming from on warranty coverage, holding them responsible for something like this is kind of like holding Dupont responsible for a bodyshop giving you a poor paint job with thier paint
in any case, all Xpel dealers know this and should have their own warranty, let us know how it goes!
Last edited by krinkov; 12-04-2002 at 02:01 PM.
12-04-2002, 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by krinkov
holding them responsible for something like this is kind of like holding Dupont responsible for a bodyshop giving you a poor paint job with thier paint in any case, all Xpel dealers know this and should have their own warranty, let us know how it goes!
holding them responsible for something like this is kind of like holding Dupont responsible for a bodyshop giving you a poor paint job with thier paint
in any case, all Xpel dealers know this and should have their own warranty, let us know how it goes!
12-04-2002, 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by krinkov
Yeah thats probably more accurate, I was struggling for an example.
Yeah thats probably more accurate, I was struggling for an example.
What type of "warranty" coverage do you offer to clients?
Let's say you do a install, and the same client comes back a month later; his bumper peppered with a few penetrating nicks from chip 'n seal or some other type of flying debris.
Do you remove old film, pay to get his bumper refinished, and then install a new piece?
I guess the "guarantee" that everyone talks about isn't really that- in terms of actual compensation for repair. Seeing as it depends strictly on the installer's own guidelines, some consumer could be SOL in the big picture.
12-05-2002, 12:29 AM
#31
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We offer a 5 year warranty on material and installation, I dont know of any installer that would cover damage occuring from impacts greater than the materials ability to deflect, but then again your not going to find any vinyl car bras that offer that kind of warranty coverage either, for the same reason Nissan makes no guarantee that you wont get hurt in a car crash if you are wearing your seat belt, its a degree of protection, not invulnerability.
Its hard for me to answer your question about penetrating nicks since honsestly, we have not seen the film fail in such a specific fasion as the picture you posted, we all looked at it and could not figur out exactly how it occured, I have seen places where rocks have dented the hood without puncturing the film, but there are just too many variables out on the road to predict exactly how each object impacting your car will react every time. In any case, we did just recently have a customer come back that tore a good 2" strip off the bottom of his bumper by parking too close to one of those concrete parking lot blocks, it fell outside"material & installation" but we took care of him since he had just gotten it installed and was just sick about it, but that was our decision and I dont want to put Edre in a position of "well Invisiguard said..."
Its hard for me to answer your question about penetrating nicks since honsestly, we have not seen the film fail in such a specific fasion as the picture you posted, we all looked at it and could not figur out exactly how it occured, I have seen places where rocks have dented the hood without puncturing the film, but there are just too many variables out on the road to predict exactly how each object impacting your car will react every time. In any case, we did just recently have a customer come back that tore a good 2" strip off the bottom of his bumper by parking too close to one of those concrete parking lot blocks, it fell outside"material & installation" but we took care of him since he had just gotten it installed and was just sick about it, but that was our decision and I dont want to put Edre in a position of "well Invisiguard said..."
12-05-2002, 08:38 AM
#32
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I have seen this type of damage several times. Krinkov's posts about levels of protection are right on. This stuf is tough, not indestructable. What everyone needs to know is that the warranties from companies like XPEL and StonGard are worthless marketing tools. They border on being a scam. As an authorized StonGard installer, I NEVER had a warranty claim for penetration honered. If you look at the claim requirements, you will see that it is almost never worth claiming.
Remember, 3M does not warrant against yellowing and rock penetrations. The warranty they do have is only for three years. How can a manufacturer buy thier film, cut a kit from it, and say it will last forever. Venture is specifically warranteed against yellowing for six years and is much tougher than 3M, but even they do not warranty against penetration. Venture is the ONLY film certified for Nissan in the UK. Even in OE applications it is not warrantied against penetration.
The only real warranty you have is your dealer. Remember this when you buy a deeply discounted kit from a message board like this one.
Remember, 3M does not warrant against yellowing and rock penetrations. The warranty they do have is only for three years. How can a manufacturer buy thier film, cut a kit from it, and say it will last forever. Venture is specifically warranteed against yellowing for six years and is much tougher than 3M, but even they do not warranty against penetration. Venture is the ONLY film certified for Nissan in the UK. Even in OE applications it is not warrantied against penetration.
The only real warranty you have is your dealer. Remember this when you buy a deeply discounted kit from a message board like this one.
12-09-2002, 12:27 PM
#33
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Paint film damage
Did you see the rock that hit your car? Seems to me that I would rather replace just the hood piece since the product is replaceable. You may never get another hit like the one you sustained. What if the bra was not there. It beats the #!% out of breaking the factory paint finish. That being said I would have replaced it for you. CSI1
12-09-2002, 03:18 PM
#34
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Re: Paint film damage
Originally posted by CSI1
Did you see the rock that hit your car? Seems to me that I would rather replace just the hood piece since the product is replaceable. You may never get another hit like the one you sustained. What if the bra was not there. It beats the #!% out of breaking the factory paint finish. That being said I would have replaced it for you. CSI1
Did you see the rock that hit your car? Seems to me that I would rather replace just the hood piece since the product is replaceable. You may never get another hit like the one you sustained. What if the bra was not there. It beats the #!% out of breaking the factory paint finish. That being said I would have replaced it for you. CSI1
Anyway, I just got back from taking care of business in LA. I got the old piece removed, and had the damage touched up. I had to pay out of my pocket; the other option was a 2 day delay and refinishing the entire hood for $500 (which would require a month's wait before putting the new 3M piece on). After the touch up, i just went back up to Torrance and Edre replaced the film for me.
12-10-2002, 11:16 AM
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Re: Re: Paint film damage
Originally posted by Aloharacing
I didn't even know anything happened until i got to my destination and examined the car briefly. Therefore, i conclude that it wasn't a big rock, or i would have at least seen the debris and/or heard the impact.
Anyway, I just got back from taking care of business in LA. I got the old piece removed, and had the damage touched up. I had to pay out of my pocket; the other option was a 2 day delay and refinishing the entire hood for $500 (which would require a month's wait before putting the new 3M piece on). After the touch up, i just went back up to Torrance and Edre replaced the film for me.
I didn't even know anything happened until i got to my destination and examined the car briefly. Therefore, i conclude that it wasn't a big rock, or i would have at least seen the debris and/or heard the impact.
Anyway, I just got back from taking care of business in LA. I got the old piece removed, and had the damage touched up. I had to pay out of my pocket; the other option was a 2 day delay and refinishing the entire hood for $500 (which would require a month's wait before putting the new 3M piece on). After the touch up, i just went back up to Torrance and Edre replaced the film for me.
How did it turn out??? Got a pic?? Just curious.
Thanks...
12-10-2002, 04:55 PM
#36
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Re: Re: Re: Paint film damage
Originally posted by JimmysZ
Did you touch it up professionally, if possible, or did you DIY with some touch up paint??
How did it turn out??? Got a pic?? Just curious.
Thanks...
Did you touch it up professionally, if possible, or did you DIY with some touch up paint??
How did it turn out??? Got a pic?? Just curious.
Thanks...
12-10-2002, 06:58 PM
#37
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Ok...a couple of "after shots". 2 factors I find in terms of this thing being apparent are:
1. the light angle
2. the angle at which you are in relation to the hood.
Depending on those two, one can or can't see it (even myself). But, it's a car...and it's meant to be driven, dammit!
1. the light angle
2. the angle at which you are in relation to the hood.
Depending on those two, one can or can't see it (even myself). But, it's a car...and it's meant to be driven, dammit!
12-11-2002, 05:05 AM
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Looks like the did a GREAT job!! I think you made the right decision to just get it touched up professionally, rather than have them redo the whole hood and take more time out of your schedule. Thanks for the pic!