Torkaholic

I'm curious if any of the Motul users have run oil analyses. I've found and reviewed about two dozen UOAs on various Motul products, and in roughly 2/3 of them, the iron looks relatively high, at least compared to other similar oils. On the other hand, none of the Motul UOAs I found were done on samples taken from a VQ. I'm not planning on changing from GC any time soon, but I've always got my radar on. The Motul seems a little pricey for the performance it delivers. I base that on it being about $8 per quart (can it be had for less?), and not really showing 40% better performance than the $5 per quart synthetics.

imcool

iTrader: (1)

6.30 a quart at my shop

Torkaholic

RP is generally a fine product, and a lot of people get good results using it. I does, however, have one unfortunate weakness that bears watching, especially in a performance application. In particular, it has demonstrated a tendency to thin down out of grade in some applications. Now, using the 40 wt in a VQ, you should be fine, even if you get the thinning, since I doubt it would plunge all the way into the 20 range, but for those using the 30 wt RP products, I'd recommend a UOA to ensure that it's staying at the viscosity you want. I would not be happy to find out that I'd been running my VQ around with an oil that sometime during its service live transmogrified itself into a 20 wt product.

Kray Z

Wow I would like to say that this is the first time i've ever had a intelligent conversation about lubrication!

Torquaholic you are right on it. As for the rest of us how can we recomend something we don't have factual evidence to back up?

Im sure the oils mentioned are great and everything but without the oil analysis its one opinion against another.

Motul im sure is a good oil it has been for the motorcycle industry can anyone post UOA's on it?

Motul 6.30$ a quart better have some good numbers on it and hit a minimum of iso 1412 or lower. and have all the additives before i would even consider it. VOA is what i'd like to see first.

Tourqaholic have you or know any supplemental bypass filters we can install on the Z? Do you have a oil cooler?

I've been thinking about the JWT extended oil pan.

After changin my oil tonight we need extra filtration desperately these filters on these engines are a JOKE.

Keep up the good work. I'll try to post some UOA's of my own to compare with.

Thanks

Torkaholic

If you're as compulsive about this as I am (I suspect worse, if you're brewing your own blends...), you'll probably enjoy this web site, if you haven't found it yourself already. Be careful, though, oil-a-holics have gone in there and never come out. Particularly useful is the subsection with hundreds and hundreds of different UOAs from numerous vehicles. Do a VQ search there, and you'll see some surprises.

I'm actually considering adding the APS enlarged oil pan, for a couple reasons. If I like the results, I can just leave the TT oil return ports sealed and never mess with them again. I may, however, add an oilguard bypass, and if so, I'll open one of the TT return ports and use it as the return.

On the other hand, my oil analysis consultant tells me that VQs consistently run very cleanly, even with the absurd sized filter. I've been running the "tall" M1-110 vs. the stock size. So far, so good, as you can see from my results, above. That oil was sampled at ~5k miles, and is still in my engine, now with about 6.5k on it. I'm going to test again at ~7.5k and it the particles are still down and TBN is in range, I'm going to take it to 10k. I imagine with a bypass on board, I could go even further. I have no oil cooler, other than what the VQ already provides. By the way, my car is a G, not a Z, so my engine is in slightly milder tune than the Z version, thus, I assume heat is even less of a factor.

p.s. I spell that screen name with a K, vice a Q, since, believe it or not, on my mother's side, I come from two Norwegian blood-lines: the Tjoflats and yes, the Torkelsens! I also like engines that can injure your neck if you're not careful. . .

Kray Z

Wow i met my new best friend ahh. Anyway I speak norwegian sweedish and danish. I lived in aalesund which is on the west coast of norway and worked at the braatvaagen rolls royce factory very cool stuff.

I like the stuff your talking about. Unfortunately i was kicked out of that forum simply because they were narrow minded about different ways of looking at lubrication. They seem very set in there ways and if your not a sponsor they consider you a salesman.

Enough said this is a much better forum and i believe toghether we can have good conversations with everyone and not be hindered by sponsors. And actually spread some real education about oil.

Your TBN is good because of the calcium sulfanate the corrosion inhibitor used in that GC oil. I would say that the oil is good but could be cleaner typical industrial oils can run 1312 iso which is extremely clean. We can not ubtain that without external filtering.

Thanks torkaholic

G-Spot Racing

Soo, is it safe to run RP 10w-40 in a daily driven non-tracked Z? I am currently running RP 10w-30 and don't want any engine problems. Thanks in advance.

LaterZ

Kray Z

Yo g spot.

I wouldn't worry. You won't create any engine damage from either one. If it was summer time i would move to the 10 30 but in the winter its not necessary I guess it depends on how you Run your Z. If your more on the warm side i'd move up but it really doesn't matter.

In the winter i prefer either the 5w 30 or 10W30 in the summer i would consider to bumping to 10w30 or 10w 40

Torkaholic

I would say it is safe. I'm running a thick 30 that's almost a 40 wt (over 12 cSt) and have had two fantastic UOAs on it. In addition, the owners manual specs 10w-40 as an alternate to 5w- and 10w-30 (my car is a G, not a Z, some differences as you know, but not that much). Track or not, I'd be very comfortable. My first alternate choice if I'm ever unable to get GC would be the M1 0w-40, as it's specs are the closest to the 0w-30 GC. I agree with Kray-Z's comment about the seasons.

fito

Ok guys , great info, but the forced induction (higher temps) has not been talked about. I would like your input on wether in forced induction (Twin turbo setup), would 10-30 would still be good?

Torkaholic

I'd strongly recommend consulting with the manufacturer of your turbo and associated equipment. I would do so with a couple questions/potential issues in mind, try discussing each with someone from the turbo makes who understands what your talking about.

First, whatever the grade, you need an oil that can tolerate the potentially high temps it will encounter in the turbo itself. Water cooling of turbo housings and bearings has gone a long way to preventing some of the problems seen regularly in older units, but still, your oil is going to encounter a lot more heat than the oil in your grandma's Buick (unless she's got a turbo added to the Buick. . .).

Second, you need an oil that can take the added stress that the engine itself will encounter. The bearings will encounter greater loads as a result of the greater hp/tq production. There will also be greater shearing stress (you didn't get the turbo to drive like Grandma in the Buick, did you?). Also, don't forget that oil is the primary coolant for all parts of the engine below the coolant jackets, and it will be required to move more heat than it will in an NA engine.

Just some food for thought. I'm at work, and need to stop for now, but you get the idea. I don't think the idea is so much to be married to one vis grade or another as it is to match the whole package to your application and how you use it. I think, though, that if it were my car, I'd pass on any dino 10w-30, in fact, I'd probably insist on a syn, regardless of grade, just for thermo-breakdown resistance.

Tex Willer

Great info. Pleasure to read this stuff.

What do you guys think about the transmission and differential Fluids.

I'm quite happy with RP motoroil and was planning to move to RP maxgear both for transmission and differential.

Max-Gear is api GL-5. The manual reccomends GL-4 for transmission because of yellow metals and GL-5 being corrosive to them.... But as far as I know, Gl-4 and GL-5 are performance specifications, not formulation specifications. Royal Purple clearly states that their max gear is GL-5 is non-corrosive to yellow metals. From what I understood GL5 being corrosive was due to additives that are not used in all oils anymore.

Am I wright to believe it's safe to run GL-5 in the transmission in the case of RP? If I could chose, I'd rather go with a GL-5 spec both in tranny and differential.

What do you think about running 75w90 in both for tracking. (Nissan specs are 75w85 for transmission and 80w90 for differential I think)

THanks if you can answer this

Jason@Performance

iTrader: (11)

this is what I use... im at 54000 miles...

http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=3351

Torkaholic

Jason:

Have you done any lab analysis on the Motul? I've been curious about Motul products on and off, and I've found a lot of Motul UOAs on the internet, but none for VQ engines. I think this would be telling, since the Motul oils seem to fit some engines well, while in some others they seem to have a lot of iron wear indicated.

Jason@Performance

iTrader: (11)

no i havent...

car hasnt blown up yet though...



let me know what I can do and ill do it...

Kray Z

100% Ester eh well you know how i feel about seals and Esters. problably though for the forced induction a better choice as that the esters can take up to 600degrees plus. Still I would ask about the compatibility of the seals and ester oil. If anything you can add seal conditioners and problably be pretty safe.


Your right about the Yellow metals many EP's can attack the yellow metals but it boils down to this whats the TAN vs. TBN. Many of the EP's contain higher amounts of acid to adhere to the metal better. With a higher amount of the calcium sulfante you can acheive lower TAN and higher TBN.

Watch in the rear if its a LSD not to have too much EP or you can slip the viscous clutch.

Torkaholic

I doubt she's gonna blow on you for lack of a UOA. . . On the other hand, UOA can do a couple useful things for you. You can select your oil change interval based upon real data from your car, not assumptions about what's safe and not marketing slop from folks who'd love you to change your oil every other week. All pertinent facts will be accounted for, your driving style, the strength of your oil's add pack, how much dirt is in your local air, and whether you've got any as yet undetected engine malfunctions (excess fuel in oil, coolant leaks, PCV malfunctions, etc.). It's amazing what you can learn from a UOA.

There are many labs that perform this service. Most are geared to serve truckers who use UOAs to determine when to dump oil. But most will be happy to take your money too. I've been using Blackstone Labs (www.Blackstone-labs.com, I have NO stake in this company). A basic UOA is $25, UOA w/TBN is $35, particle counts are $19.50 on top of other services. They have a full schedule of fees on the site. I also highly recommend the "Dyson Package." Terry Dyson is an experienced oil analyst who has a deal set up with Blackstone where if you order the package, it's only $10 on top of the Blackstone service. For the money, you can't beat getting his insight. Sure, you can just dump your oil every few thousand miles in an attempt to be safe, but just remember, with each "dump," you're tossing away valuable info too. I plan to eventually settle into a once or twice a year "check-up" UOA plan.

You can bottle a sample when you drain oil, or you can use a siphon pump to draw it up your dipstick tube (my preferred method). Pumps sold for this purpose are great, as the bottle screws right onto them -- very easy. But you can use any thin tube and siphon it yourself too.

Jason@Performance

iTrader: (11)

well i beat the crap outta my car no matter how i am driving... on my next oil change i will do that... i think i had some of my old oil left when we put in the 300v... im due in another 1000 miles for a change...

Nano

iTrader: (1)

On some other boards i've seen UOA databases.

there should be a UOA database for brand of oil, weight and intervals for vq35de too. Someone should start one.

that'be cool.

I'm going to do a UOA next time I change oil .

Kray Z

Torkaholic That sounds way high for a UOA I get em for like 9 dollars with pre paid stamps. SFR offers them give em a call. www.sfrcorp.com.