Jun

iTrader: (45)

How come we don't see swaps on the 350z/G35c with the VQ30DETT engine (or at least many of them) ?

I know the engine has had some time in Japan now, so I'd think they would be many available used. Or is it that it's too costly to do this swap?

I think this would be a reliable swap when it comes to turbo-charging, just because the engine is already turbo from factory, the internals should be able to put quite some beating before they go.

Anyone know how much it would cost? Would we lose any of our features (power windows/ac/etc) if we did the swap? Could we buy some parts to destroke the VQ35DE into making it a VQ30DETT without buying the whole engine?

Thanks in advance.

350zzzzzz

iTrader: (2)

vq30dett crank and put it in our block to make it rev faster.

barthelb

The performance of the VQ35DE is almost to the point of the VQ30DETT. The VQ30's at 1000whp not included. There are several 500whp and 600whp VQ30's out there. Only being in the Z for the last 3 years we have several 500 600 and almost 700whp VQ35's. I think everyone just wants to use the new technology. Thats what i think anyway. Also I think everyone is pulling for the VQ35 to be an awesome engine because it beautiful, has great potential and the best sounding engine under 50 maybe 100 grand?

Vash350Z

iTrader: (9)

Its an interesting idea but for the money you spend on the swap and building the VQ30 to make high power you could have built a mean VQ35.

TK2005

What kind of car does a VQ30DETT come out of?

showstoppertk

iTrader: (6)

the z32tt or 300zxtt I believe...of course they also use it in their gt500 racing series 350z's. hmmm....

kvn8

has anyone here swaped a r33 or r34 gtr engine?? The Rb turbo engines?

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

There is no such production engine as a VQ30DETT, maybe why no one bothers with a swap
The GT500 cars use a custom VQ30 block, the VQ30DET (single turbo, no valve timing) is available out of a Cedric or Gloria, but why bother when you could TT the 35?
The Z32 (300ZX) used the VG30, an iron block V6 that also saw modified duty in the last Frontier truck chassis. No one is dumb enough to downgrade to that over the VQ35.

theking

iTrader: (3)

On the money!

AznIceRckt

this is my ideal engine for the 350z. while the rb26 fits and is a great choice if you can afford it, on a street car it is rather risky since the bumper and radiator support must be removed or trimmed (i think).

while the sr20det is nice, it really wouldn't work it's magic unless the 350z goes on an interior-weight reduction, to maintain the weight balance of the car among other things.

i like this motor: rb20det, inline 6, 2.0L turbo dohc. this is the tomei derive crate engine (12k... costly, but factor the cost of a fully built vq35)



it is nice and light, compact, and would be able to be mounted lower, and further back then the vq35.

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-ca...6_rb20det.html

here are specs, 370ps, with a catalytic converter. it is a complete engine, forged internals, many rb26, tomei, and nismo parts.

anyway, swapping any engine is going to require lots of custom work. at minimum:

-engine mounts
-tranny mounts
-custom driveshaft
-ring+pinion (for correct gearing if needed)
-standalone ecu
-custom radiator
-custom fmic
-custom downpipe
-custom exhaust

there is a hefty 15k chunk, at minimum. signal auto wanted 20k to do a full rb26 swap complete on my car, with everything said and done, motor + tranny, with my 5 a/t converted to a standard.

if you are doing a swap like this, i doubt you care about keeping a/c, but in likelihood you won't be able to keep it. basic electronics like windows and lights can be made to work. the gauges should not work with an engine swap, but regardless, the tach on the z/g only goes to 8000, which won't suffice for most RB and SR motors.

if you are going to race the car, or you have many sponsors behind you, it is an idea, but like the other members said, building a vq35 is a better idea imo. an engine swap at this point will just be expensive.

andypandy

iTrader: (2)

the nissan gloria/cedric and cima use the VQ30det. however, i am not sure if the engines do have variable intake valve timing such as the current vq35de's.

some of FI maxima owners swapped out the internals of their original vq30de's from vq30det's for extra protection.

kzshin

Espirit Japan customed one RB26DETT powered Z33 for an Arabia customer. 600hp. I think VQ30DET were used on Staega in Japan also.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

it isn't worth the cost to swap out to a VG30 IMO

it's also a heavier engine




lol good catch on my bad phrasing!

you know i meant though in the context of the thread

overZealous1

iTrader: (27)

the technology is there to build a very brutal vq35. why tf would anyone want to do a motor swap unless their car car in a front wreck that totaled the motor too? more and more is being figured out on this motor everyday to modify it. parts on this motor are still not cheap, but cheaper than trying to build another and trying to custom fit it in the Z chassis. if ya figure out how to stuff a small block chev in there with twin turbo, let me know, cause that would be about the most potent combo you could get!!!!!
before i get flamed, figure it out, aluminumblock and heads, tt @ 20 psi deap into 1000rwhp without much prob at all.

aaronlosey

iTrader: (1)

i just had to chime in on this one. the rb20det is not a very light engine, and would be a terrible swap for the z. an rb25-26 would barely be a good swap for the z and would need alot of mods and money before it even equalled the stock vq35, but the rb20 would just be retarded. small displacement without even cutting weight, and it doesn't have very great potential. not even the potential of the stock vq. you shouldn't post junk like this, people might take you seriously and think its a good idea, then spread the idea because they don't know what they are talking about.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

He's right. The RB20 uses the exact same block casting as the RB25 anmd RB26. It's cast iron and sand cast at that, meaning thicker walls to make up for imperfections in the cast compared with a die. This will be just as heavy as a RB26, without the better breathing head and lighter valvetrain. A waste.
Will

AznIceRckt

I don't know what I'm talking about now? haha.

First off, please compare the RB20 with a VQ35DE with a turbo kit, piping, intercoolers, and others. The transmission likely should weigh more too. The iron block's strength will outweigh the downside of the weight, which is on the engine shortblock, nice and low anyway.

Also, there is the issue of WHERE weight is. Have you ever heard of... center of rotation? Maybe you should pick up a suspension tuning reference. The inline engine should be able to be mounted lower and closer to the firewall.

And an RB25/26 would "barely" be a good swap? What is your logic for this comment? Please inform me. The only benefit of using a VQ is the cost savings, and possibly reliability (from using an original engine/tranny). The VQ35 has yet to prove itself to be as reliable as any RB engine. Once a VQ proves itself in a 24-hour enduro, I'll be convinced.

Keep in mind Nissan canned the RB engines to save money. The VQ motors are utilized in almost all popular Nissan V6 vehicles. This is to save money, plain and simple. The VQ is a good platform for street/race tuning, but in a full race car, there are simply many better powerplants.


--------------

Well, since you ask why someone would want to swap an engine in a new car, or relatively new..

Nearly no JGTC car, including GT500 Z's use the VQ35. Only some GT300 Z's use that motor, and other non Z cars.

The 2JZ is a great powerplant as shown by street supras. On stock cams/pistons/turbo it can output nearly 550bhp. Now, you would assume GT500 dominating supras like au cerumo and esso, do not use the 2JZ (and not for regulations). The supras instead run the 4.3L V8 3zz-fe for reliability and a smoother power-band.

The JGTC skylines never ran RB motors, instead the VG30dett like the gt500 Z's. reason again, in race trim, the VG was shorter, and could be mounted rediculously far back, since modifying the front and rear subframes are not against JGTC rules.

-- So my point of this, is that every person wants a different balance. Some people don't even want balance, or know what that is. I would never drive a car with more then 400whp without large powerful brakes, and downforce. I drive fast, not every does (dyno queen drivers).

My goal is to balance the car in terms of power output, weight balance, and reliability. I see the safest way to achieve 400-450whp with the VQ35 for a full track car would be to build the engine, and run only 6-7psi from a supercharger.

And if 1000whp is your goal, why don't you get something that can sustain an output like that for more then a dyno run? like, building a chevy big block with twin turbos.

AznIceRckt

Revision- (Sorry board will not let me edit the older post)


I don't know what I'm talking about now? haha.

First off, please compare the RB20 with a VQ35DE with a turbo kit, piping, intercoolers, and others. The transmission likely should weigh more too. I agree with you that it is still a heavy engine, especially for the displacement. I should have done more research on the exact weight before yapping. Regardless though, you should learn to speak like an adult.. calling something retarded? Grow up.

The iron block's strength will outweigh the downside of the weight, which is on the engine shortblock, nice and low to the ground anyway.

Also, there is the issue of WHERE weight is. Have you ever heard of... center of rotation? Maybe you should pick up a suspension tuning reference book or guide. The inline engine should be able to be mounted lower and closer to the firewall.

And an RB25/26 would "barely" be a good swap? What is your logic for this comment? Please inform me. The only benefit of using a VQ is the cost savings, and possibly reliability (from using an original engine/tranny). Having inexpensive spare engines and trannies all over the States doesn't hurt either. However, the VQ35 has yet to prove itself to be as reliable as an RB engine. RB stands for.. race bred... cheesy, yes. but true. Once a VQ proves itself in a 24-hour enduro, I'll be convinced of it's reliability. And even so, in that situation, the VQ35 will probably never see more then 300-400hp in any homologated racing series. Once the new GT-R motor debutes, it will become the new nissan racing engine, probably eventually powering JGTC Z's, and the new GT-R GT500 car (when it is released... 2010 maybe?).

Keep in mind Nissan canned the RB engines to save money. The VQ motors are utilized in almost all popular Nissan V6 vehicles. This is to save money, plain and simple. The VQ is a good platform for street/race tuning, but in a full race car, there are simply many better powerplants.


--------------

Well, since you ask why someone would want to swap an engine in a new car, or relatively new..

Nearly no JGTC car, including GT500 Z's use the VQ35. Only some GT300 Z's use that motor, and other non Z cars.

The 2JZ is a great powerplant as shown by street supras. On stock cams/pistons/turbo it can output nearly 550bhp. Now, you would assume GT500 dominating supras like au cerumo and esso would use the 2JZ, but they don't (and not for regulations). The supras instead run the 4.3L V8 3zz-fe (think.. lexus ls430).. for reliability and a smoother power-band.

The JGTC skylines never ran RB motors, instead the VG30dett like the gt500 Z's. reason again, in race trim, the VG was shorter, and could be mounted rediculously low, and far back, since modifying the front and rear subframes are not against JGTC rules.

-- So my point of this, is that every person wants a different balance. Some people don't even want balance, or know what that is. I would never drive a car with more then 400whp without large powerful brakes, and downforce. I drive fast, not every does (dyno queen drivers). I drive fast on the track too. I don't know what the purpose of more then 500whp is, especially on the street. While it would be fun blasting off on the freeway and straight roads, I regularly subject my powertrain to 30+ min sessions of sustained high-RPM driving (track sessions).

My goal is to balance the car in terms of power output, weight balance, and reliability. I see the safest way to achieve 400-450whp with the VQ35 for a full track car would be to build the engine, and run only 6-7psi from a supercharger (or 4.3L stroker kit).

And if 1000whp is your goal, why don't you get something that can sustain an output like that for more then a dyno run? like, building a chevy big block with twin turbos. it is called, taking the proven, tested, and tried path. MK4 supra big-horsepower heads like Guilly and Said supposedely have built 1000+whp supras, but most people don't know that they blew numerous engines to get to that point. I'm not going to spend 20 grand experimenting with an unproven engine.

- - I'll spend that 20k getting a proven motor in my car. Yes, swapping an engine is expensive, time-consuming, and difficult. But then again so is blowing an engine because of lack of proper tuning, build concept, or parts. How many VQ35's have been toasted under boost? My logic is to spend large NOW to get a proven engine in, and not worry about reliability, rather then spend less now, build the VQ and boost it, and then continuously spend more and more money over time buying new engine blocks and internals.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

I see nothing wrong with the VQ

SGP racing just redid their engine building pricing/parts

there's some new options out there now. Eagle rods and other pistons.

I think pricing will only get better for parts for the VQ

it's a light weight engine, and has no lag with a lot of kits - lots of displacement.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Nearly no JGTC car, including GT500 Z's use the VQ35. Only some GT300 Z's use that motor, and other non Z cars.

The 2JZ is a great powerplant as shown by street supras. On stock cams/pistons/turbo it can output nearly 550bhp. Now, you would assume GT500 dominating supras like au cerumo and esso, do not use the 2JZ (and not for regulations). The supras instead run the 4.3L V8 3zz-fe for reliability and a smoother power-band.

The JGTC skylines never ran RB motors, instead the VG30dett like the gt500 Z's. reason again, in race trim, the VG was shorter, and could be mounted rediculously far back, since modifying the front and rear subframes are not against JGTC rules.

To straighten things out, for those that might care, the GT500 cars don't use the VQ35 because the rules won't let them twin turbo the engine without a significant weight penalty and restrictor increase. I can post the rules if you'd like. When you turbo a larger motor than 3.0 liters, and use dual inlets, then the inlet size goes down and the car's minimum weight goes up compared to using a motor at or below 3.0 liters. By keeping the motor at or below 3.0 liters, they can achieve the power and torque they need without the undue penalties. It makes sense to use the VQ30 and not the VQ35 if they are going to turbo it.
Second, the GT-R's in the JGTC did use the RB26 motor. JGTC rules prohibit the use of non-production engines more than one year after production is ceased. They had to go to the VQ block because they weren't allowed to use the RB26. And they NEVER used the VG block.
Finally, the Supras used the 3S when they won the JGTC, not the 2JZ because, again with only 2.0 liters, they could keep the car even lighter, mount the engine farther back for better balance, and make use of MUCH larger restrictors to make the power they needed to win. It isn't that the 2JZ sucks or can't make power -obviously- but because they could wring more out of the car with the smaller engine instead. They use the 3zz now for the same reason Nissan uses the VQ, because the 2JZ and 3S are no longer production engines.
I understand what you are saying, and agree that engine swaps are not a bad thing for certain goals. Going lighter and smaller for similiar power levels as a larger engine makes sense. That's why Toyota used the 3S. With close to 500hp in mind, they saw the benefits of a smaller, lighter engine to make what they needed. But no one is going to say that the 2.0 liter 3S will make more power than the 2JZ or even than the 3ZZ, or be an overall better engine. Just better for what goals they had in mind. Same goes for this VQ30DETT idea or an RB swap. For your goals, because I don't really know them- maybe the RB is better for reliability, but there is still time to tell. I, like most people I imagine, think the VQ35 will make just as much power as you could possibly want, and with less weight, and closer weight to the firewall, as an RB with less headache. If you decide to do this, i hope it meets your goals and works out well. I'll certainly give you props on originality, but besides the benefit of working the AWD into the Z33, I see no benefit to the RB over the VQ35, same with trying to TT a VQ30 in place of the VQ35.