rich2342

iTrader: (3)

awesome...

Trav4011

iTrader: (2)

No offense, but, you really need to calm down..

Offset grinding the journals will not cause them to crack. The crank will be nitride hardened after they machine work to get the surface hardness of the journals back to what it needs to be. As far as the overlap, there will still be plenty of material in place..

I know what I'm doing.. I've built 9k+ rpm motors before, and know what is involved in designing something of this magnitude. If you want to spend 5-6 grand on a stroker kit, and buy a billet crank, then be my guest. There's no reason to do it, though. Offset grinding has been in practice for a long time.. And, a 2" rod journal is used even in Nascar SBC's.. so, I'm not worried about RPM. The rod/stroke ratio is still good 1.70:1, and there's plenty of material left that we don't have to worry about a lack of overlap.

Travis

Trav4011

iTrader: (2)

Crank will be professionally prepped after the machine work.. Like I told the other guy.. I know what I'm doing. We built the only 9K+ rpm QR25DE in existance, using a modified SR20 crank, and custom pistons/rods, cams/springs. Makes over 500whp on pump gas, and has survived 3+ years without so much as cracking open the valve cover.

Offset grinding rod journals the small amount that we're doing, isn't a big deal..

Travis

Tackett

I was talking to the other dude who wrote the angry wall-o-text. I was referring to his stress level and temper. Not your engines stress level or temper.

johnwigs

GTR crank 12201-JF00A $1200... not 5-6 grand
VR main jounal 70mm rod journal 59mm stroke 88.4mm rod journal bigger for the longer stroke
HR main journal 70mm rod journal 57mm stoke 81.4mm with custom rods (if your in there why not use powdered rods???) and the deck is over 9" (almost 1" over DE and rev-ups)
and I don't know who or where I said "buy a billet crank" ...
so you say "I know what im doing" you say you build a QR25 with a SR20 crank... well I have news for you... its not a QR25... you should call it QR20...
Im not saying grinding the journals on a VQ and having them nitrated and heat "stress reliefed" WILL make them crack... I was talking about thumb suckers trying to put a VQ40 crank into a VQ35 block
2"main journals may be used in NASCAR... but motors last 3 races (1500 miles) at best...
even a blind kid can build a motor to last 1500 miles...
and FYI NASCAR is soon to be powered by 4cyl audi engines... in case you didn't know

johnwigs

who says im stressed... I got it easy now... got a new job paying way more money... got 3 healthy boys... and a beautiful girl friend... and shopping to buy my first house... life is good!!!

jeffie7

iTrader: (4)

Also in for the video.

johnwigs

you got to pay to see!!!
lol
come see me on adult friend finder and you can see!!!!

johnwigs

damnit I spelt come correctly
*** see me... much better

johnwigs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFgNE6Uoi38

Tackett

It was an attempt at making a funny. Apparently a bad one.

johnwigs

I thought it was funny

Trav4011

iTrader: (2)

While the VR crank (850 bucks my cost), might be a good option for a HR block.. it won't work in a DE block, which has a smaller main journal diameter of 60mm. That would involve removing 10mm of the VR's main journal diameter.. Offset grinding the stock crank is still a better idea, and leaves plenty of main/rod journal overlap, to where you wouldn't have to worry about it. Even if you had zero overlap, I doubt that you would break the crank.. The QR crank has almost zero overlap, and a horrendous 100.3mm stroke. We spin them up to 72-7300rpm, and I've never seen someone break a crank. The VQ has a WAY better rod to stroke ratio (QR is 1.43:1)..

I said billet crank, because for the DE guys, the aftermarket stroker stuff is really the only other option. Every aftermarket stroker kit uses a billet crank.. that's 3K right off the top, and it's a big part of the cost of a stroker kit. The VR crank is not an option for the DE guys.. Very viable for the HR guys, though.

Putting a VQ40 crank into a DE block is not an option, either, as it uses the same 70mm main journal.. You're right, I would be worried about stress fractures with removing that much material from the mains on a longer stroke crank.

Nascar motors use a 2" ROD journal.. not main journal.. My point in saying this, is that offset grinding the VQ crank to a 2" rod journal is not going to affect bearing life. Nascar motors don't trash bearings.. they're rebuilt because of valve spring fatigue, and camshaft wear.

I'm not a blind kid.. I'm 30 years old, and I build race engines for a living.. I certainly don't build engines with a 1500 mile lifespan expectancy.

BTW, a destroked QR, using a SR crank, is a 2.1 liter.. not 2.0. We sleeved the block on ours, and punched the bore out, making it a 2.3 liter. Custom 6" rods, puts our rod/stroke ratio at 1.77:1. We run 9K rpm on a single spring setup.. with a custom cam profile that Clark (JWT) and I worked on specifically for this application. It works pretty well..







Travis

johnwigs

who said anything about putting a GTR crank into a DE block??? DE block is a boat anchor... no point in making a horse out of a donkey... HR is better in every way...

I never said you were a blind kid... I know you can build motors for your spec VQ I know clark and have lunch with him often so I do know of you the good and the bad... I have never meet you or know you to say you are this or that... what I did say is that there is better and proven ways of "skinning the cat"

you don't know me or of me but I will tell you I have touched and massaged and compared every VQ part from a 30 to a 37 to see what really fits and what wont... of course with a machine shop and lots of time and $$$ there are exceptions... but you and me know there is not many customers that drop off cars and say finish it when ever and call me for more $$$... there are some but not alot to do what we want in R&D

oh and QR25 07 spec V crank is fully balanced to keep your displacment up to 2.5 liters and can rev without balancer

Trav4011

iTrader: (2)

This thread pertains to a DE block.. not the HR.. No one is talking about the HR block, except for you. The DE block is what I have to work with as far as the FWD stuff is concerned. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that block, either.. Sure the HR is a better block, but, that's not an option for me with the intended application.

Why are you making this out to be a d*ck measuring contest? No, I don't know you.. and I don't really care. Yes, I am good friends with Clark/Jim.. and they've helped me substantially over the years.. Sure, you've heard good/bad about me.. I'm sure there's a perception of good/bad about anyone/everyone in this business, including JWT. What's your point?

I know what I'm doing.. and I'll debate factual info with you, or anyone else. I don't claim to know everything.. but, I do know enough to make educated decisions in terms of designing engines/components. So, please stop telling me about how this won't work.. because I've been proving people like you wrong for the better part of 10 years in this industry. Give me a few months, and I'll show you how this will work.

As far as the QR.. fully counterweighted or not.. the stroke is still 100.3mm, and the rod is still 143mm. Sidewall loading and ring seal will always be an issue for this engine. You will not spin a stock stroke QR to 8K, reliably, for any length of time.. even with the new crank.

Travis

johnwigs

apparently you have d1cks on the mind... maybe you need to lay off the viagra??? you can't pay attention to what Im saying... and FWD HR application... '10 maxima... you should look at those specs and '09+ murano's true DE block but HR heads...

I was trying to give you a hand out of respect that I know of you out of this mess of a forum... I was never judging you as a person or your ability... I know that you do good work and I will official commend you on the specVQs you have built... I am even a fan, I like the idea...

I will spell it out for you... THERE IS A BETTER WAY well lets not argue over whats better... A DIFFERENT WAY... is that a comprimise???

true that is nothing wrong with the DE engine... just outdated... just like the S20s, FJ24s, SR20s, RBs, it is a progression of technology...

so in closing so you don't raise your blood pressure old man (im 29 so Im just razzing you)... I am not saying your idea is "bad" just that I feel there is a better (and proven) way

Trav4011

iTrader: (2)

Does the 2009+ Maxima block use the taller deck and larger main saddles? It's still designated as a VQ35DE. I have a 2009 Altima engine sitting here, which has the old DE block with HR heads, and the same intake manifold as the 2009+ Maxima. I have not gotten my hands on a new Maxima block, though.. and I can't find info anywhere.

If the new Maxima uses a taller deck with larger main saddles, then, the VR crank is a viable option for sure. The only problem, is cost.. You're talking about big bucks to get ahold of a 2009+ engine. Then, you have the cost associated with building it. The other obstacle is the control system.. since Nissan moved the cam position sensors to the top of the head, and the signal is completely different. It means that we can't use the 02-03 Maxima ECU/harness, or even the 04-08 stuff.. So, control would be another issue..

I agree.. there's more than one way to do this.. but, I think the way that I'm discussing is the most effective, and can be very reliable if properly executed. You've gotta remember, that these are Sentra owners.. It's tough to get them to spend big bucks.

I just turned 30.. but, my hands/back/knees feel around 40ish.

Travis

johnwigs

maxima and muranos both use short deck motors with the small main journals... but the main thing is the HR heads... muranos don't get exhaust retraders (I love that word)

the control issue I was pondering about the maxima... because it is (in ECU terms) a VQ35HR and I was looking to put the 07 altima 6speed bolted to it... but then the can comm problem of not having a TCM was a problem until clark suggested use a 07 Z 6speed ECU... custom harness of course (which most of it could be used from the maxima anyways) and the ECU will never know the difference... can comm isn't hard to match up a different ECU

tell me about the sentra owners and not spending big bucks... that is why I am taking a small break out of the engine building buisness and now work for firestone learning about tires... (the most important part of the car when you think about it) it is a huge change but I embrace the change and am mingling with a completly different crowd (possible future engine customers!!!)

Trav4011

iTrader: (2)

Ahh.. I see.. So, the 07+ Altima engine is identical to the 09+ Maxima engine? I know that from the heads on up is the same, but, didn't know if the blocks were different or not.

I've never tried to mess with the Z ECU's and such.. but, will the the 07 ECU run without a body control module? In other words.. If I took the newer VQ in the Altima/Maxima, and got my hands on a 07 Z ECU/harness.. Could I simply wire the ECCS relay, and other mandatory functions, without a BCM and/or TCM, and get it to run? I have the ability to run NATS, so, that's not a problem.. My biggest thing is if the Z ECU will be happy without a BCM. The Sentra doesn't have a BCM..

I have tach adapters, and the speed sensor sensor is analog (from the sensor in the trans, directly to the gauge cluster). Does the Z ECU need to see a speed signal? I know that Maxima/Altima ECU(s) run just fine without it. It throws a code, but, it doesn't affect performance.

I wish I could take a break from this industry.. I'm so tired of it.. But, it pays the bills, and it's really all that I know. I'm good in sales, but, wouldn't have a clue as to where to go from here. So, I'll probably end up like Clark/Jim in another 15-20 years.

Travis

johnwigs

there is not '09 maxima, 2010 is new model year... altima does not have exhaust retraders... Z ECUs only need BCM for nats and can comm for TCS and certain DTCs... nats I believe can be overiden... I havent needed to try yet but im sure if an IPDM E/R is not used... you can use switched power for injectors and spark... the need for an external fan controller is needed... all the swaps Ive done have either had a BCM or haltech platinum...

I don't know if it is a bad or good thing ending up like jim and clark...

at least you are in a better market than sandy eggo... you know the "other morons" that are out here "brokering the fastest Zs in the country"... I care to not mention his name, he dosent need anymore news his way... I can't understand how people line up to have him butcher cars up... It is mind bottling...

Now that is something to get stressed about... there is such slow business in sandy eggo while people are knocking on the door of "you know who" to get their cars hacked together... I pride myself on my work and I know I charge premium for premium work... maybe that is my problem... my *****'s on a pedastal... Im not going to lower my rate or quality of work though...

oh well Im happy with my new work for the time being... I know it is only a matter of time before im picking up the torque wrench to build motors again... Ill just enjoy the vacation for now