View Poll Results: Automatic or Manual Trans.
Automatic
61
25.00%
Manual
183
75.00%
Voters: 244. You may not vote on this poll
Auto or Manual
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
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Originally posted by ares
if you sit in traffic ALOT, commute to work all the time, then you might have a case for an automatic, but if you get to zip around town, not too much traffic, and you plan to track the car at all. manual is for you.
I did the same as you, had a dodge ram, I grabbed a 318ci for 2 months to beat up while i learned manual, now I have the Z,and couldnt be happier.
the automatic will always have a handicap, by its nature it saps hp. one person got 14.1, his post is still around here somewhere. not bad, faster than I got with my manual, but as I said, Ive driven manual for all of maybe 5 or 6 months. and conditions were not real good for racing. manual will always put more power to the ground, and feathering the clutch for a launch isnt nearly as bad as a brake stand in an auto.
if you sit in traffic ALOT, commute to work all the time, then you might have a case for an automatic, but if you get to zip around town, not too much traffic, and you plan to track the car at all. manual is for you.
I did the same as you, had a dodge ram, I grabbed a 318ci for 2 months to beat up while i learned manual, now I have the Z,and couldnt be happier.
the automatic will always have a handicap, by its nature it saps hp. one person got 14.1, his post is still around here somewhere. not bad, faster than I got with my manual, but as I said, Ive driven manual for all of maybe 5 or 6 months. and conditions were not real good for racing. manual will always put more power to the ground, and feathering the clutch for a launch isnt nearly as bad as a brake stand in an auto.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
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Originally posted by ares
perhaps you could enlighten us how the 350Z automatic somehow is better than all others? does it not use a power robbing torque converter? does it not use mutliple clutches? I believe it IS the same as any other QUALITY manual transmission, there is nothing new in the design.
but hey, as you said, I have not driven one, so perhaps you could explain in what way the Z transmission is better/different.
perhaps you could enlighten us how the 350Z automatic somehow is better than all others? does it not use a power robbing torque converter? does it not use mutliple clutches? I believe it IS the same as any other QUALITY manual transmission, there is nothing new in the design.
but hey, as you said, I have not driven one, so perhaps you could explain in what way the Z transmission is better/different.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
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Originally posted by KaPPaBaLL
do you know of the Z's auto is just like the BMW smg tranny? because that ****er shifts right when you tap it. so you can basically power shift the whole time.
do you know of the Z's auto is just like the BMW smg tranny? because that ****er shifts right when you tap it. so you can basically power shift the whole time.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,399
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Originally posted by DmitryZ
I am sorry to break it to you Boomer but the Z auto IS like any other automatic. The generic name for this setup is a semiautomatic transmission although every car company comes up with their own name. It will allow you to change gears "manually" but it still has the same torque converter and the same basic principles as any other automatic. It has been around for a while (at least since the late eighties with the Porshe 911 Triptonic). If you do a little bit of research you will see that this type of transmission is found on many cars today. In fact, I would not be surprised if the same gearbox is used or will be used in all other nissan products. As I said before, if you take away the electronics that allow you to do the manual stuff, you will be left with a generic automatic tranny. What that means (Ares beat me to the punch here) is that you still loose power to the torque converter and get a limited number of gears=less performance.
I won’t lie, I have not driven the Z with an automatic. What I have done is driven other cars with the same setup. They are not all the same cars but the tranny setup is very similar. Have you driven other cars with the same setup? Better yet-do you know how to drive a manual? I am not trying to offend anyone but the people that point out all the merits of an automatic tranny are usually the ones that have never driven with a manual transmission.
BTW there is no correct way to shift an auto. You press a button - it shifts. You don’t do any actual shifting. Hence you can’t “learn how to shift it well in the manual mode”. There might be better shift points but that is about all. Any person who driven a manual has an instant feel for those. I have certainly been wrong before so your comments are welcome.
Dmitry
A small side note to anyone who cares:
1. A manual transmission is generally (not always) more efficient (better gas mileage) because is does not loose power to the torque converter (direct mechanical linkage to the rear wheels via the clutch).
2. It is helluva easier to service a manual than an auto (good luck sorting through all the electronics if something brakes on that). Trust me. I worked in the shop so I know a little bit about these things.
3. For all you performance nuts: Manual trannys are usually (I stress the word usually) lighter than their automatic counterparts.
I am sorry to break it to you Boomer but the Z auto IS like any other automatic. The generic name for this setup is a semiautomatic transmission although every car company comes up with their own name. It will allow you to change gears "manually" but it still has the same torque converter and the same basic principles as any other automatic. It has been around for a while (at least since the late eighties with the Porshe 911 Triptonic). If you do a little bit of research you will see that this type of transmission is found on many cars today. In fact, I would not be surprised if the same gearbox is used or will be used in all other nissan products. As I said before, if you take away the electronics that allow you to do the manual stuff, you will be left with a generic automatic tranny. What that means (Ares beat me to the punch here) is that you still loose power to the torque converter and get a limited number of gears=less performance.
I won’t lie, I have not driven the Z with an automatic. What I have done is driven other cars with the same setup. They are not all the same cars but the tranny setup is very similar. Have you driven other cars with the same setup? Better yet-do you know how to drive a manual? I am not trying to offend anyone but the people that point out all the merits of an automatic tranny are usually the ones that have never driven with a manual transmission.
BTW there is no correct way to shift an auto. You press a button - it shifts. You don’t do any actual shifting. Hence you can’t “learn how to shift it well in the manual mode”. There might be better shift points but that is about all. Any person who driven a manual has an instant feel for those. I have certainly been wrong before so your comments are welcome.
Dmitry
A small side note to anyone who cares:
1. A manual transmission is generally (not always) more efficient (better gas mileage) because is does not loose power to the torque converter (direct mechanical linkage to the rear wheels via the clutch).
2. It is helluva easier to service a manual than an auto (good luck sorting through all the electronics if something brakes on that). Trust me. I worked in the shop so I know a little bit about these things.
3. For all you performance nuts: Manual trannys are usually (I stress the word usually) lighter than their automatic counterparts.
My first new car was a 1965 Triumph TR4 w/a 4spd. I have owned about 9 or 10 manuals and the Z automanual is my first auto as a personal car at 58 yrs, so I am enjoying it and you can do a search for other comments about the Z automanual and save your 123s for when you play jacks with your girlfriend. "Never argue with a fool because then people watching won't know who the fool is". Got it? I thought you would, you're a real smart boy.
Last edited by Boomer; Feb 28, 2003 at 08:06 PM.
he was only required to perfect the brake stand, beyond that he did not use the manual shift. which is smart, because as he pointed out, the car shifts at redline with the fastest shift possible, by bringing in the human input you only allow for error. and yes I am aware that this directly conflicts with the benifits of a manual which COMPLETELY rely on human input and has great room for error.
I will also conceed that a poorly driven manual will get spanked by a automanual. for the comparison to work, the driver must be able to drive the manual to its limits, something I know I can not yet do, and I bet 90% of the people with manuals cannot do it, but we strive to learn, and when we do, it will be great.
none the less, in the end, one system is less parasitic, more direct, and gives the driver, 100% complete control over the car. besides, for what its worth, I like to know that I drove the car as much by myself as I can, there was no help, I didnt plant my foot to the ground and go, it required effort and some amount of skill to make the car do a quarter in 14.1seconds, 8out of 10 people in an automatic can do that, but it only takes 1 mistake in a manual to screw that up.
for the not so convincing subjective arguement, F1 cars use the manual setup(clutchless manual of course), drag racers use a manual, nascar uses manual. all racing cars use some form of the manual transmission, not all use clutches, but they all rely on the same base transmission setup. while on the other hand, youll see that you cant get a S600, or a 745i in a manual, only automanual. nothing wrong with either, all of these cars are at the top of their classes, just different classes, which class you choose to go with is personal preference.
I will also conceed that a poorly driven manual will get spanked by a automanual. for the comparison to work, the driver must be able to drive the manual to its limits, something I know I can not yet do, and I bet 90% of the people with manuals cannot do it, but we strive to learn, and when we do, it will be great.
none the less, in the end, one system is less parasitic, more direct, and gives the driver, 100% complete control over the car. besides, for what its worth, I like to know that I drove the car as much by myself as I can, there was no help, I didnt plant my foot to the ground and go, it required effort and some amount of skill to make the car do a quarter in 14.1seconds, 8out of 10 people in an automatic can do that, but it only takes 1 mistake in a manual to screw that up.
for the not so convincing subjective arguement, F1 cars use the manual setup(clutchless manual of course), drag racers use a manual, nascar uses manual. all racing cars use some form of the manual transmission, not all use clutches, but they all rely on the same base transmission setup. while on the other hand, youll see that you cant get a S600, or a 745i in a manual, only automanual. nothing wrong with either, all of these cars are at the top of their classes, just different classes, which class you choose to go with is personal preference.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,347
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From: Western Japan
this subject has been argued to death..
Manual.... if that is what you want and you have no complaints on your way to work every morning... I love the Z manual. However --
If you have the hellish bumper-to-bumper commute every day and the 6MT will drive you crazy -- get the auto ...
The Nissan auto-stick is a very nice alternative... and is fun. I test drove both the 6MT and auto.
My morning and evening commute is not bad... so I chose the stick. But if I lived in Tokyo... hmmm .. I would have selected the auto with regrets ... but that's the way it is.
If you have the hellish bumper-to-bumper commute every day and the 6MT will drive you crazy -- get the auto ...
The Nissan auto-stick is a very nice alternative... and is fun. I test drove both the 6MT and auto.
My morning and evening commute is not bad... so I chose the stick. But if I lived in Tokyo... hmmm .. I would have selected the auto with regrets ... but that's the way it is.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 520
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From: Knoxville, Tn.
hea ares if the auto has such a "power robbing torque converter" then why is it just as fast as the manual?!?! and if there is any doubt about this refer to the post "1/4 times for the 5at" on this forum. dude has a 5at non modified and posted a 14.1 run. so really its just a matter of preference.
New Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 215
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From: South Carolina
Originally posted by DmitryZ
BMW smg tranny is very different than the Z slush box.
SMG has a CLUTCH. That's right-it is a manual transmission controlled electronically (no torque converter). It is the same as Ferrari F1 shifter (actually Ferrari was the first production car with such a setup with their F355). It does not powershift. It will do all the double clutching/blipping the throttle for you automatically via hydraulics at a lightning speed - faster than is humanly possible. In my opinion it is the ultimate setup. You don’t have to heel/toe, the wear on the clutch is minimal because you get a perfect shift every time (minimal slippage), very convenient if you are stuck in traffic, and allows you to use both feet (like a go cart) when you are on the track. Very cool stuff. As much as I like my Z- if I could afford and SMG that’s what I would get.
Dmitry
BMW smg tranny is very different than the Z slush box.
SMG has a CLUTCH. That's right-it is a manual transmission controlled electronically (no torque converter). It is the same as Ferrari F1 shifter (actually Ferrari was the first production car with such a setup with their F355). It does not powershift. It will do all the double clutching/blipping the throttle for you automatically via hydraulics at a lightning speed - faster than is humanly possible. In my opinion it is the ultimate setup. You don’t have to heel/toe, the wear on the clutch is minimal because you get a perfect shift every time (minimal slippage), very convenient if you are stuck in traffic, and allows you to use both feet (like a go cart) when you are on the track. Very cool stuff. As much as I like my Z- if I could afford and SMG that’s what I would get.
Dmitry
Originally posted by ajk4
hea ares if the auto has such a "power robbing torque converter" then why is it just as fast as the manual?!?! and if there is any doubt about this refer to the post "1/4 times for the 5at" on this forum. dude has a 5at non modified and posted a 14.1 run. so really its just a matter of preference.
hea ares if the auto has such a "power robbing torque converter" then why is it just as fast as the manual?!?! and if there is any doubt about this refer to the post "1/4 times for the 5at" on this forum. dude has a 5at non modified and posted a 14.1 run. so really its just a matter of preference.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/torque-converter3.htm
particularly look at this part.
At higher speeds, the transmission catches up to the engine, eventually moving at almost the same speed. Ideally, though, the transmission would move at exactly the same speed as the engine, because this difference in speed wastes power. This is part of the reason why cars with automatic transmissions get worse gas mileage than cars with manual transmissions.
To counter this effect, some cars have a torque converter with a lockup clutch. When the two halves of the torque converter get up to speed, this clutch locks them together, eliminating the slippage and improving efficiency.
To counter this effect, some cars have a torque converter with a lockup clutch. When the two halves of the torque converter get up to speed, this clutch locks them together, eliminating the slippage and improving efficiency.
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Phoenix, AZ
I test drove the 5at and now own a 6mt. I would have seriously considered the 5at if it weren't for the manual mode shifter action. To upshift on the 5at you push the stick forward and to downshift you pull the stick backwards. To me, this is setup should be reversed. That way you'll be working with the G forces rather than against G forces. This is the way rally cars are setup. I also felt that the shift action was kind of slow in the 5at, even at redline. I felt I could do it faster myself. For most drivers, the 5at will be faster in the 1/4, because it doesn't take much skill to launch and it eliminates mistakes in shifting, but highly skilled or professional drivers will be faster in the 6mt. JimH achieved a 14.1 and that makes a strong case for the 5at considering that I haven't seen a test mag yet get this time in their 6mt's...driver skill of the test drivers was a factor in the 6mt but not in the 5at of JimH. Jim just let the car shift for him. He also said that there was another Z at the track the same day as him. It was a 6mt and it only managed a 14.6 and had bad traction problems...driver skill.
So if you commute to work in traffic and don't want to deal with constanting shifting yourself, I'd say get the auto. But if you want to accept the challenge of increasing your skill to the point where you can beat the auto in the 1/4, I'd say get the manual. The manual will put more power to the ground but only the good drivers can use all of that power.
So if you commute to work in traffic and don't want to deal with constanting shifting yourself, I'd say get the auto. But if you want to accept the challenge of increasing your skill to the point where you can beat the auto in the 1/4, I'd say get the manual. The manual will put more power to the ground but only the good drivers can use all of that power.
Joined: Jun 2002
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Originally posted by joeshow750
I test drove the 5at and now own a 6mt. I would have seriously considered the 5at if it weren't for the manual mode shifter action. To upshift on the 5at you push the stick forward and to downshift you pull the stick backwards. To me, this is setup should be reversed. That way you'll be working with the G forces rather than against G forces. This is the way rally cars are setup. I also felt that the shift action was kind of slow in the 5at, even at redline. I felt I could do it faster myself. For most drivers, the 5at will be faster in the 1/4, because it doesn't take much skill to launch and it eliminates mistakes in shifting, but highly skilled or professional drivers will be faster in the 6mt. JimH achieved a 14.1 and that makes a strong case for the 5at considering that I haven't seen a test mag yet get this time in their 6mt's...driver skill of the test drivers was a factor in the 6mt but not in the 5at of JimH. Jim just let the car shift for him. He also said that there was another Z at the track the same day as him. It was a 6mt and it only managed a 14.6 and had bad traction problems...driver skill.
So if you commute to work in traffic and don't want to deal with constanting shifting yourself, I'd say get the auto. But if you want to accept the challenge of increasing your skill to the point where you can beat the auto in the 1/4, I'd say get the manual. The manual will put more power to the ground but only the good drivers can use all of that power.
I test drove the 5at and now own a 6mt. I would have seriously considered the 5at if it weren't for the manual mode shifter action. To upshift on the 5at you push the stick forward and to downshift you pull the stick backwards. To me, this is setup should be reversed. That way you'll be working with the G forces rather than against G forces. This is the way rally cars are setup. I also felt that the shift action was kind of slow in the 5at, even at redline. I felt I could do it faster myself. For most drivers, the 5at will be faster in the 1/4, because it doesn't take much skill to launch and it eliminates mistakes in shifting, but highly skilled or professional drivers will be faster in the 6mt. JimH achieved a 14.1 and that makes a strong case for the 5at considering that I haven't seen a test mag yet get this time in their 6mt's...driver skill of the test drivers was a factor in the 6mt but not in the 5at of JimH. Jim just let the car shift for him. He also said that there was another Z at the track the same day as him. It was a 6mt and it only managed a 14.6 and had bad traction problems...driver skill.
So if you commute to work in traffic and don't want to deal with constanting shifting yourself, I'd say get the auto. But if you want to accept the challenge of increasing your skill to the point where you can beat the auto in the 1/4, I'd say get the manual. The manual will put more power to the ground but only the good drivers can use all of that power.
all cars come in automatic these days, even the paddle shifters often offer a "automatic" mode for them. it is definitly easier.
the only debate is which is faster I suppose, in which case I think the answer should be a good driver with a manual transmission. thats all I was trying to say. everyone I saw did mention that if your looking for ease of use, automatic is obvious.
another thing that may not have been covered, the automatic will reach a limit on how much it can handle, even if you send it off to be worked on. while a manual with a new clutch can handle almost limitless power. thats just a consideration if your planning for 5-600+hp. but then again, if you wanted that much, you would hopefully be planning on racing your car, in which case I think we now all agree that the manual is the best for that use.
the only debate is which is faster I suppose, in which case I think the answer should be a good driver with a manual transmission. thats all I was trying to say. everyone I saw did mention that if your looking for ease of use, automatic is obvious.
another thing that may not have been covered, the automatic will reach a limit on how much it can handle, even if you send it off to be worked on. while a manual with a new clutch can handle almost limitless power. thats just a consideration if your planning for 5-600+hp. but then again, if you wanted that much, you would hopefully be planning on racing your car, in which case I think we now all agree that the manual is the best for that use.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 216
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From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA
Get MT
The answer is that the MT is faster if you can drive. Every magazine has compared MT with AT transmissions and the MT is faster and will always be used on sports or racecars. Is the AT less work, yes that is obvious? When I am in a sports car I like to shift gears plain and simple. Now, that I have stated above that MT is always faster than AT, this is a lie. The Ferrari F1 paddle tiptronic transmission is faster than the MT. This has been shown on the Ferrari web site and in magazines. This is the only AT/tiptronic transmission that is faster than the MT with a racecar driver driving. You can look at Porsche, etc. with the AT/tiptronic vs. the MT and the MT will be faster and only the Ferrari tiptronic transmission is faster. And this transmission alone cost more than the Z. This is the transmission that they use on Formula One cars. I have driven a Z with AT and the G35 with AT and I can shift faster with a MT.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 180
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From: NJ
Re: Get MT
Originally posted by DavidD
The answer is that the MT is faster if you can drive. Every magazine has compared MT with AT transmissions and the MT is faster and will always be used on sports or racecars. Is the AT less work, yes that is obvious? When I am in a sports car I like to shift gears plain and simple. Now, that I have stated above that MT is always faster than AT, this is a lie. The Ferrari F1 paddle tiptronic transmission is faster than the MT. This has been shown on the Ferrari web site and in magazines. This is the only AT/tiptronic transmission that is faster than the MT with a racecar driver driving. You can look at Porsche, etc. with the AT/tiptronic vs. the MT and the MT will be faster and only the Ferrari tiptronic transmission is faster. And this transmission alone cost more than the Z. This is the transmission that they use on Formula One cars. I have driven a Z with AT and the G35 with AT and I can shift faster with a MT.
The answer is that the MT is faster if you can drive. Every magazine has compared MT with AT transmissions and the MT is faster and will always be used on sports or racecars. Is the AT less work, yes that is obvious? When I am in a sports car I like to shift gears plain and simple. Now, that I have stated above that MT is always faster than AT, this is a lie. The Ferrari F1 paddle tiptronic transmission is faster than the MT. This has been shown on the Ferrari web site and in magazines. This is the only AT/tiptronic transmission that is faster than the MT with a racecar driver driving. You can look at Porsche, etc. with the AT/tiptronic vs. the MT and the MT will be faster and only the Ferrari tiptronic transmission is faster. And this transmission alone cost more than the Z. This is the transmission that they use on Formula One cars. I have driven a Z with AT and the G35 with AT and I can shift faster with a MT.
David please reread what I said above about the ferrari transmission
Dmitry
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 180
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From: NJ
Originally posted by Boomer
My first new car was a 1965 Triumph TR4 w/a 4spd. I have owned about 9 or 10 manuals and the Z automanual is my first auto as a personal car at 58 yrs, so I am enjoying it and you can do a search for other comments about the Z automanual and save your 123s for when you play jacks with your girlfriend. "Never argue with a fool because then people watching won't know who the fool is". Got it? I thought you would, you're a real smart boy.
My first new car was a 1965 Triumph TR4 w/a 4spd. I have owned about 9 or 10 manuals and the Z automanual is my first auto as a personal car at 58 yrs, so I am enjoying it and you can do a search for other comments about the Z automanual and save your 123s for when you play jacks with your girlfriend. "Never argue with a fool because then people watching won't know who the fool is". Got it? I thought you would, you're a real smart boy.
Ok. I went back and did a search. I apologize for making my assumption about you. But also note that I said that I wasn’t trying to offend anyone. I will be more careful next time - after all we are all on the same team.
All I was trying to do is correct your previous statement “a Z is not like any other automatic.” To me that implied that the Z auto has no torque converter which it obviously does. Now my PERSONAL view is that a sports car should not come with an auto. Thus, I bought a manual for that reason and the fact that I plan to take my car to the track so those .1 of a second matter to me. So hopefully you see now that I was trying to make a valid point and you had to go and take a personal shot at me, which I don’t appreciate. Personal reasons aside, there is no way anyone can compare a manual to an automatic and definitively say which one is better. It is all a matter of what you plan to do with the car and what your preferences are. For me a manual was the only way to go, for an old fart (we are even-I am here to talk about the Z-leave my girlfriend out of this) an auto might be the way to go. Everyone has their preferences-we will just have to agree to disagree.
I am going to drive my Z.
Dmitry
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 216
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From: Norfolk, Virginia, USA
MT vs AT
Dmirty I am not saying what you said about the Ferrari is wrong. I am only telling the other people out there about the facts about the F1 transmission on the Ferrari. It is as far as I know and the magazines have tested the only AT/tiptronic tans faster than the MT in the same car. Comparo vs. comparo.