Kraigman

Just curious, who do you think has a better AWD implementation than Audi? Don't say Subaru (aren't they comparatively new at it?).

350Zwannabe

Can you give me a name of ANY other vehical with 100% power to the front wheels and 100% power to the rear wheels all the time?????

Not even a 996TT has it, Audi TT, nor Subarus nor Mits. etc....
These cars are either front drive or rear drive UNTIL there is the slightest detection of slippage in the other tires. At that point theres a percentage of power that is transfered to either the front or rear, usually around 60%+ therefore getting allwheel drive.

I know exactly how I sound when making these statements that I do. I am not trying to be cocky or sound like I know everything. I am just a 26 year old who doesn't know ALOT about everything, I just know A LITTLE about ALOT of things!!!

Thank you for welcoming me.

S12 driver

S4 is a nice car. But I seriously doubt Audi's AWD is the best. I have never ride or driven an Skyline GT-R R34 Vspec, but I think the ATTESSA EST-Pro is a better AWD system.

RoadRagerInTherapy

You need look no further than Mitsubishi for your answer (i.e., Evo).

N74DV

umm... thats physically impossible. Maybe you mean the power is equally split between front and rear all the time??

sozugk

not even equally split at least for a4s. it's more like 40-60 or 35-65.

RoadRagerInTherapy

MannishBoy

iTrader: (1)

Subaru has been making 4x4 and AWD cars for decades. Not saying they are the best, but I knew several people that had 4x4 Subaru wagons years ago and they used them around a farm quite a bit to get around.

MannishBoy

iTrader: (1)

I want a car with 200% total power! Sign me up!

Kraigman

Thanks for the responses guys. I've had 3 Quattros over the last decade or so and found them to be awesome in regards to traction. Great for winter driving too. Then again, I've also owned 2 Z's in the same time period - so I guess my subconscious decided that I needed alternatives to satisfy my addiction to performance

Is it possible that some AWD implementations are better at some things than others, i. e., EVOs and WRX's for performance, Audi's for winter driving? How different are these companies' implementations of AWD systems?

Also, was Audi the first to sell a fulltime AWD vehicle?

dczoner

iTrader: (1)

Alright, here's what I'm seeing:

1. The S4 is a torquey s.o.b - they build power ez, plus with stock TT there is easy room to "move up" in the turbo realm. I had an A4 before I picked up my Z33, and I gotta tell you even that car pulls in the low end. Not high-end-performance pulls, but its there nonetheless. But the Germans also "design" their engines differently. I mean, look at the Audis or BMW's, they pull across the entire range. This is a Japanese car, they design their cars not so much for that grunt low end (read: american V8 style), but for top engine revving performance.

2. The S4 is leaps & bounds more expensive than a Z. Namely 50k vs 30k. That makes a difference, especially in engine building where "price-is-less-of-an-option".

3. Why isn't anyone mentioning Superchargers? From what I understand (and I'm not an engine-builder, so don't flame me immediately) superchargers will give you that low end twist that y'all are talking about. Especially in non-stock turbo cars, doesnt the turbo lag kick in a lot more than in stock?

4. I am pretty sure my A4 2.8 Q ran like 60/40 until it got loose when it switched to 50/50 (power distribution).

Just what I've seen/heard. Also I know my mechanic built an S4 out to about 600hp, but the kid killed the car a few weeks after the whole buildup was done. My mechanic said the car ran as hard as his friends viper. (he ended up spending like 20k on parts, etc. + 20k for the stereo - and sold the totalled car for 23k - in effect losing about 60k. - Oooooops.)

Take care.

Quark

Um no I cant give you one, because its not possible, so I can just let you know...AUDIS AWD system doesnt work as you described.

No no no. They are neither front or rear drivers untill they detect slippage, they are AWD all the time not FWD untill slippage then AWD; but AWD ALL THE TIME (just because they have a front or rear tq bias doesnt make them front or rear drivers). Of course AWD systems from the same manufacturer still differ on every car slightly (is this a sports car w/AWD, or an SUV?).

Also can you post a dyno of yours, because I have been scrounging around the audiworld site, and have not found one single (modded) S4 that makes peak tq below 3800rpms...let alone the 2000rpms your claiming. I really want to see the dyno so I can compare it to other modded S4 dynos that i've seen.

Quark

Well I dont know how many of you saw it, but in sport compact car (last months) there was a great article (cover story), battle of the best AWD.
It featured a highly modded Audi TT, another highly modded Skyline, the COBB tuning WRX, the XS WRX, and two EVOs one that had an exhaust, and the group N rally car (which is more restricted than the stock evo).
I will say that in wet conditions while on the road course and drag strip, the mostly stock EVO's AWD system was letting it hang with and even beat some HEAVILY modified cars...while all the evo had was an exhaust and coil-overs.

Now your question, is one better in certian situations? well... I would say YES and NO. I mean you say evos and WRX for performance, but this what about the RS8 and all its lemans victories? Then you say audi's could possibly be the best for winter driving...but dont forget that about those pesky evos and WRXs that race on ICE!!! It really depends on what the car is (hey the new mitsu SUV is AWD), and the purpose of the car.

I believe that not only does AWD vary from company to company, but also varies inside the company depending on what car (or truck) the system is going into.

bfleming

I'm pretty sure that bunny has two pancakes on his head, and will understeer going into a curve.

AND what happens to that s4's torque after 2000 rpm??? Do you have to shift just after 2000 rpm to keep accelerating ??? Is it a stoplight racer??? What are the 1/4 times??? Need to see the curve(s)???

BurnOutz

After 2000 rpm, the car starts to lose torque. Remember though that it still IS creating torque, therefore horsepower is increasing as RPMs increase.

Now about AUDI making the BEST AWD SYSTEM, I really beg to differ. Yet again, this is another subjective topic. All AWD systems are made different and serve different purposes. (i.e. an SUV wont have a 25:75 torque split, and a street performance car meant to be used mainly for racing probably wont have a 50:50 split).

In my opinion, I feel that the AWD system implemented on the GTR is the best. Why? Because it mainly handles like a rear-wheel drive car and only transfers power to the front wheels when the rear wheels slip.

N74DV

good point...... but the bunny has full time ALD (All Leg Drive) should pull that front end around no problem... even with the added weight of the second flapjack.

350Zwannabe

SO DOES THE PORSCHE TT. SO DOES A JAG X TYPE. SO DOES A MURCIELAGO. SO DOES THE INFIN. FX35/45 (which by the way is the Skyline AWD SYS.)

OK, I love All Wheel Drive Period. ITs a wonderful confident feeling that you get at high speeds going in and coming out of turns. If you've never felt it before I high recommend you do!

I was in Michigan at an Audi driving school and the instructors took us around for hot laps with other instructors in BMW 3 series and there was a dramatic diff. in the way both cars handled.
Before those hot laps, we got to go at it with both Bimmers and Audis and got to really feel the diff. between Rear and AWD. The fun factor was definitely there with the BMW 3 series and got some great Oversteering action with some throttle lift. The BMW's have great road feel. You feel one with the car. The Audi doesn't have as much driver feed back and is not as solid as the Bimmer but still very stable at high speeds and the AWD sys. is just a gem. Especially exiting a turn. When you can just floor it early coming OUT of a turn a feel the tiny turbo kick in, the AWD SYS. is like claws digging into the asphalt with a slight controllable drift.
Other than that, REAR WHEEL DRIVE STILL RULES ON JUST ABOUT EVERY CIRCUIT YOU SEE AND ON THE ROAD TODAY.

You must drive a WRK, EVO, AUDI, Skyline or any other AWD car to the limit of adhesion in the rain to see what I'm talking about. WHAT A THRILL!

Subaru makes one hell of a car. For the money the new STI will be lots of fun (300hp.). 30K+

Yes, all AWD systems are different and all give a sense of security. SOMETIMES A FAULS SENSE OF SECURITY!

LAter guys/girls!

RoadRagerInTherapy

First off... PUH-LEEZE stop with the bunny-stuff! I'm pissing my pants laughing over here!

Secondly, I agree about the fauls (sic) sense of security with AWD.

I should know, considering the number of times that my lead foot + my old Talon AWD turbo would = power oversteer in snow/gravel and end me up facing the wrong way at the wrong time.

350Zwannabe

Define Bunny stuff?

N74DV

Bunny-stuff definition:

when one posts something that makes no sense whatsoever or whose post reflects the true nature of their lack of knowledge in any given area of concern, they receive (free of charge) a bunny with 2 pancakes on it's head.




It has been pointed out that due to the added weight of the second pancake, this particular bunny may experience understeer in moderate to extreme conditions.

However, it should be noted that this bunny will automatically transfer up to 80% of it's power to the front feet reducing this effect. Upon exit of the corner, power is transferred back to the rear feet as weight shifts due to accelration. As speed increases the pancakes produce significant amounts of downforce.... The only real disadvantage to the cakes is their tendancy to promote overheating as heat is not easliy allowed to escape through the cranium.