HKS ignition
05-07-2007, 07:46 PM
#41
Originally Posted by stormcrow
i don't think it's about more combustion, but quicker burn... detonation is caused by uneven mixture burn and can cause the familiar busted ringlands and pitted/melted pistons... greater spark causes more of the mixture to be ignited and therefore a quicker, more even combustion... granted, ignition and combustion are a chain reaction, but the shorter the amount of time between ignition and full combustion, the better...
that said, i had mine installed today for a different reason... i'm continually getting the P0300 (random cylinder misfire) and i figured i'd try 2 step colder plugs and the HKS DLI II... SES light has yet to come back on...but, only time will tell... i'll keep you guys updated...
that said, i had mine installed today for a different reason... i'm continually getting the P0300 (random cylinder misfire) and i figured i'd try 2 step colder plugs and the HKS DLI II... SES light has yet to come back on...but, only time will tell... i'll keep you guys updated...
Roll with me, I'm trying to figure this out ...
If it does not cause more complete combustion, and it does indeed cause what you call "quicker burn" , then what effectively happens is you are changing the optimal timing in your cylinder.
Optimal spark timing is whatever results in (typically) maximum cylinder pressure at 15 degrees after top dead center. So, if you burn the mixture faster, then you change the timing of the peak cylinder pressure.
Tony (Hydrazine) also hinted at the effects of shifting optimal timing with the HKS unit.
So, if what you say is true, then you should be able to tune for the discrepancy in timing and it wouldn't make a difference.
At least that's my take on your comments.
Edit: Actually what you say makes some sense. If it makes the combustion occur in a shorter period of time, you might produce higher max cylinder pressure and make some extra power.
Last edited by Wired 24/7; 05-07-2007 at 07:49 PM.
05-07-2007, 08:08 PM
#42
I just spoke with a tuner about this today. his take on it was he can see it doing something while tuning a car with it. Said he can see the car slightly lean out - maybe due to a more complete burn.
I was advised it wasn't needed, but he could tell it was doing something.
For a N/A I wouldn't advise it, but might be a nice add-on for a few higher HP FI guys
I was advised it wasn't needed, but he could tell it was doing something.
For a N/A I wouldn't advise it, but might be a nice add-on for a few higher HP FI guys
05-07-2007, 10:50 PM
#43
so without it then, I guess the only option for the guys running lots of boost pressure and lots of extra gas to match the extra air, their only other available option is to gap the plugs even shorter and shorter.
Eventually the plugs are going to have a hard time igniting all the extra gasses, especially with race gas. What else is there for you to do other than look into nissan's HR ignition coils and hope they fit the earlier VQ's?
Eventually the plugs are going to have a hard time igniting all the extra gasses, especially with race gas. What else is there for you to do other than look into nissan's HR ignition coils and hope they fit the earlier VQ's?
05-08-2007, 10:16 AM
#44
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So who is running a group buy on this and how much are they going to be?
I am skeptic that it will increase performance at all.
I am hopefully that it will allow a larger gap at higher boost (that would be the ultimate test right there). Maybe if somene 'donates' me one I can test it on a bench with a pressure chamber.
We could find out at what pressure the stock plugs start to fail, and then see IF this increases the pressure the plugs can handle. According to the description it should.
I am skeptic that it will increase performance at all.
I am hopefully that it will allow a larger gap at higher boost (that would be the ultimate test right there). Maybe if somene 'donates' me one I can test it on a bench with a pressure chamber.
We could find out at what pressure the stock plugs start to fail, and then see IF this increases the pressure the plugs can handle. According to the description it should.
05-08-2007, 11:31 AM
#46
Registered User
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
Roll with me, I'm trying to figure this out ...
If it does not cause more complete combustion, and it does indeed cause what you call "quicker burn" , then what effectively happens is you are changing the optimal timing in your cylinder.
Optimal spark timing is whatever results in (typically) maximum cylinder pressure at 15 degrees after top dead center. So, if you burn the mixture faster, then you change the timing of the peak cylinder pressure.
Tony (Hydrazine) also hinted at the effects of shifting optimal timing with the HKS unit.
So, if what you say is true, then you should be able to tune for the discrepancy in timing and it wouldn't make a difference.
At least that's my take on your comments.
Edit: Actually what you say makes some sense. If it makes the combustion occur in a shorter period of time, you might produce higher max cylinder pressure and make some extra power.
If it does not cause more complete combustion, and it does indeed cause what you call "quicker burn" , then what effectively happens is you are changing the optimal timing in your cylinder.
Optimal spark timing is whatever results in (typically) maximum cylinder pressure at 15 degrees after top dead center. So, if you burn the mixture faster, then you change the timing of the peak cylinder pressure.
Tony (Hydrazine) also hinted at the effects of shifting optimal timing with the HKS unit.
So, if what you say is true, then you should be able to tune for the discrepancy in timing and it wouldn't make a difference.
At least that's my take on your comments.
Edit: Actually what you say makes some sense. If it makes the combustion occur in a shorter period of time, you might produce higher max cylinder pressure and make some extra power.
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
Optimal spark timing is whatever results in (typically) maximum cylinder pressure at 15 degrees after top dead center. So, if you burn the mixture faster, then you change the timing of the peak cylinder pressure.
that said, still no SES light... i'm giving it a week or so for a more definitive answer...but, it used to come on within a few miles after reset...
05-08-2007, 11:36 AM
#47
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Originally Posted by KPierson
Oh, and anyone got a price on a 'non' plug and play version? I would rather splice wires then pay more money!
05-08-2007, 11:37 AM
#48
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Originally Posted by KPierson
I am hopefully that it will allow a larger gap at higher boost (that would be the ultimate test right there). Maybe if somene 'donates' me one I can test it on a bench with a pressure chamber.
05-08-2007, 11:37 AM
#49
Registered User
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=KPierson]
I am hopefully that it will allow a larger gap at higher boost (that would be the ultimate test right there). Maybe if somene 'donates' me one I can test it on a bench with a pressure chamber.
QUOTE]
just out of curiosity, why would you want to run a larger gap? this would cause the spark plug to lose cooling efficiency and cylinder temps would be higher... with the amplifier, you should be able to get just as good a spark with less gap and still run colder cylinder temps... i wouldn't go larger gap if i didn't have to... i don't mind changing plugs more often due to fouling...
I am hopefully that it will allow a larger gap at higher boost (that would be the ultimate test right there). Maybe if somene 'donates' me one I can test it on a bench with a pressure chamber.
QUOTE]
just out of curiosity, why would you want to run a larger gap? this would cause the spark plug to lose cooling efficiency and cylinder temps would be higher... with the amplifier, you should be able to get just as good a spark with less gap and still run colder cylinder temps... i wouldn't go larger gap if i didn't have to... i don't mind changing plugs more often due to fouling...
05-08-2007, 11:40 AM
#50
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
there is a sweet spot with gaps. The idea is not to go larger than needed, its to go large enough such that you get good spark and good plug life, without premature fouling. Especially as you start running colder than stock plugs
On this car, I would not want to do plugs anymore than absolutely needed, since its not the quickest job
On this car, I would not want to do plugs anymore than absolutely needed, since its not the quickest job
05-08-2007, 11:43 AM
#51
Originally Posted by stormcrow
i see where you're going with this, but there's a flaw in your thought process...and i believe it lies here:
i don't think it would change the timing of the engine... i could be completely wrong, but i think it no different than having better atomization from higher quality fuel injectors... this also creates quicker combustion, but doesn't change the timing...it just affords more and better combustion of the mixture...
that said, still no SES light... i'm giving it a week or so for a more definitive answer...but, it used to come on within a few miles after reset...
i don't think it would change the timing of the engine... i could be completely wrong, but i think it no different than having better atomization from higher quality fuel injectors... this also creates quicker combustion, but doesn't change the timing...it just affords more and better combustion of the mixture...
that said, still no SES light... i'm giving it a week or so for a more definitive answer...but, it used to come on within a few miles after reset...
Again, the best advice in this thread seems to be "good for F/I, not so great for N/A" because of the price.
05-08-2007, 11:46 AM
#52
Registered User
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
there is a sweet spot with gaps. The idea is not to go larger than needed, its to go large enough such that you get good spark and good plug life, without premature fouling. Especially as you start running colder than stock plugs
On this car, I would not want to do plugs anymore than absolutely needed, since its not the quickest job
On this car, I would not want to do plugs anymore than absolutely needed, since its not the quickest job
i don't mind, at all, replacing the plugs because it's devon@forged who does them! *haha* but, i hear ya... removing the strut bar, vacuum lines and unwiring the HKS harness to remove the coilpacks can be a bit of a pain... i'm at an advantage because i drive my car very little... 1000 miles comes in a few months, not weeks or days like some...
what gap would you recommend for 2 step colder plugs at oh, say, 14psi?
05-08-2007, 11:48 AM
#53
Registered User
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Wired 24/7
Yes I think I'm starting to come around, the more I think about it, it seems like it would make a difference.
Again, the best advice in this thread seems to be "good for F/I, not so great for N/A" because of the price.
Again, the best advice in this thread seems to be "good for F/I, not so great for N/A" because of the price.
05-08-2007, 11:59 AM
#55
Registered User
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sentry65
who actualy needs 2 step colder plugs? Even the big power guys run 1 step colder. 2 steps colder ends up losing power and fouling easy from the cases I've read about
05-08-2007, 12:36 PM
#56
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
it needs the harness to work
05-08-2007, 12:37 PM
#57
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
that is precisely what it's allowed us to do on every car we've ever used them on, from the Z to the Evo/DSM/Supra, etc
Out of curiosity, what is the lowest plug gap anyone has been able to successfully use and get decent results?
05-08-2007, 12:41 PM
#58
Originally Posted by KPierson
How does it need a harness to work? I thought I saw a universal version somewhere? Maybe I'm thinking of something else.
APS recommends .028" gap with their turbo kits
05-08-2007, 12:59 PM
#59
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't know they recomended the .028" gap! I'm at .035" and I'm running above stock boost (I know, shame on me). Maybe I'll close them up a bit.
I wouldn't mind at all making my own harness. 15 or so wire splices, to me, is worth saving $100. I've never understood the people who would pay that much extra for a plug and play harness when it wouldn't take more then an 30 minutes to hard wire it.
I'm guessing that it would have a power, a ground, 6 inputs, and 6 outputs on it. You could run the wires to wherever the thing already plugs in and make all the splices there. It really wouldn't take much longer then just plugging it in, as long as you have the service manual to quickly identify the wires.
I think I'm with a lot of the other people here, I wouldn't mind having it, but I have more important things to spend $500 on. To me, this is a $200-225 mod. At least until someone proves that it will help me in any way!!!!
I wouldn't mind at all making my own harness. 15 or so wire splices, to me, is worth saving $100. I've never understood the people who would pay that much extra for a plug and play harness when it wouldn't take more then an 30 minutes to hard wire it.
I'm guessing that it would have a power, a ground, 6 inputs, and 6 outputs on it. You could run the wires to wherever the thing already plugs in and make all the splices there. It really wouldn't take much longer then just plugging it in, as long as you have the service manual to quickly identify the wires.
I think I'm with a lot of the other people here, I wouldn't mind having it, but I have more important things to spend $500 on. To me, this is a $200-225 mod. At least until someone proves that it will help me in any way!!!!
05-08-2007, 01:05 PM
#60
Banned
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 2,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.injectedperformance.com/V...ct.aspx?ID=857
Here is what I am talking about. The description of the unit is identical to the VQ35 specific version, but it costs $100 less (I found a $399 price on another website).
$400 would be easier to spend on this then $500, even if it means a bit of extra work on my end.
Man, why did I ever get married and buy a house??????? I never used to worry about $100 before!!!!!
Here is what I am talking about. The description of the unit is identical to the VQ35 specific version, but it costs $100 less (I found a $399 price on another website).
$400 would be easier to spend on this then $500, even if it means a bit of extra work on my end.
Man, why did I ever get married and buy a house??????? I never used to worry about $100 before!!!!!