The ECU lowdown
07-01-2003, 09:07 AM
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The ECU lowdown
I just got off the phone with a gentlemen from Nissan motor sport.
He seemed very knowledgeable and explain to me that the ECU is not going to negate all gains, what it will end up averaging it out.
He explained after say putting on an exhaust system at first you may get no gain in power at all then shortly after it will probably spike for a bit then after a few hundred miles you'll end up with something in the middle. I mentioned That I recently installed a Borla exhaust system and he said you probably will end up with six to seven horsepower increase overall. Which actually seems to be the case. And the manufacturer's claim of 24 horsepower is probably when it spikes shortly after installation.
I asked if nismo,s going to be coming out with a different ECU his answer was if they did and being that it's a flesh type of ECU if you ever went to the dealership to have something say warrented and the mechanic hooked it up to the system there is a good chance it would be we fleshed and you would lose the program and all your gains so he said that is the problem with aftermarket ECU's
He seemed very knowledgeable and explain to me that the ECU is not going to negate all gains, what it will end up averaging it out.
He explained after say putting on an exhaust system at first you may get no gain in power at all then shortly after it will probably spike for a bit then after a few hundred miles you'll end up with something in the middle. I mentioned That I recently installed a Borla exhaust system and he said you probably will end up with six to seven horsepower increase overall. Which actually seems to be the case. And the manufacturer's claim of 24 horsepower is probably when it spikes shortly after installation.
I asked if nismo,s going to be coming out with a different ECU his answer was if they did and being that it's a flesh type of ECU if you ever went to the dealership to have something say warrented and the mechanic hooked it up to the system there is a good chance it would be we fleshed and you would lose the program and all your gains so he said that is the problem with aftermarket ECU's
07-01-2003, 09:54 AM
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This nissan rep sure knows alot about the Borla exhaust... Maybe they use the Borla to test and see if they can learn something from it 
But the ecu theory sounds about right...no one really knows for sure, but it sounds about right.....
But the ecu theory sounds about right...no one really knows for sure, but it sounds about right.....
07-01-2003, 11:10 AM
#3
wow! nissan reps are so smart! what do you think when he means, 'it will average it out?" thats the ecu compensating for your mods.
if you ended up with the TechnoSquare ECU upgrade and your dealer wants to over ride it with a new software version... you can send it back for a reflash, no big deal...
if you ended up with the TechnoSquare ECU upgrade and your dealer wants to over ride it with a new software version... you can send it back for a reflash, no big deal...
07-01-2003, 11:23 AM
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Chebosto, a guy named Jim Conforti developed an EPROM flasher for OBDII BMWs called the Shark Injector.
http://info.product-finder.net/uuc/S...--and-E39.html
It saves your old data and flashes the new data. Don't have to send in the ECU to modify it. How bout yall looking at something like this, it would be real successful and make life a lot easier. That way you can reflash if the dealer writes over it.
http://info.product-finder.net/uuc/S...--and-E39.html
It saves your old data and flashes the new data. Don't have to send in the ECU to modify it. How bout yall looking at something like this, it would be real successful and make life a lot easier. That way you can reflash if the dealer writes over it.
Last edited by jcv; 07-01-2003 at 11:37 AM.
07-01-2003, 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Chebosto
wow! nissan reps are so smart! what do you think when he means, 'it will average it out?" thats the ecu compensating for your mods.
if you ended up with the TechnoSquare ECU upgrade and your dealer wants to over ride it with a new software version... you can send it back for a reflash, no big deal...
wow! nissan reps are so smart! what do you think when he means, 'it will average it out?" thats the ecu compensating for your mods.
if you ended up with the TechnoSquare ECU upgrade and your dealer wants to over ride it with a new software version... you can send it back for a reflash, no big deal...
That's what he explained its basically just a software program that you would be purchasing.
Last edited by DMONTE; 07-01-2003 at 11:43 AM.
07-01-2003, 01:45 PM
#7
from what i've heard/seen Nismo USA has no real affiliation &/or limited support from Nismo Japan...
thats why nismo usa is getting the beat-around with having to get US companies to make parts for us and relabeled as 'nismo'
i've seen enough evidence with my own eyes to see the ecu is altering its own code to adapt to your modifications... believe me or not, thats your choice. but i wouldnt be spending the effort if i could just throw on bolt on and make sufficient power... hence why i think the ecu is the way to adequately make the power your mods are supposed to do...
as far as the Shark Injector, thats pretty interesting device, but to develop the hardware to interact with the Nissan systems would probably take some time, let alone large fundings for chip/board design... perhaps they might try it as a future product...
if your program ever gets erased from the dealer, you can get it installed/reflashed again, the price for the ECU has reflashing opportunities included in the price...
it IS the software changes you are purchasing.. thats the key here. the original programming is what is causing problems with modifications... with the new software installed, you get an increase of drivability..
offical launch of the TechnoSquare ecu is in a week.. they're putting the final touches on the FAQ & product pages..
thats why nismo usa is getting the beat-around with having to get US companies to make parts for us and relabeled as 'nismo'
i've seen enough evidence with my own eyes to see the ecu is altering its own code to adapt to your modifications... believe me or not, thats your choice. but i wouldnt be spending the effort if i could just throw on bolt on and make sufficient power... hence why i think the ecu is the way to adequately make the power your mods are supposed to do...
as far as the Shark Injector, thats pretty interesting device, but to develop the hardware to interact with the Nissan systems would probably take some time, let alone large fundings for chip/board design... perhaps they might try it as a future product...
if your program ever gets erased from the dealer, you can get it installed/reflashed again, the price for the ECU has reflashing opportunities included in the price...
it IS the software changes you are purchasing.. thats the key here. the original programming is what is causing problems with modifications... with the new software installed, you get an increase of drivability..
offical launch of the TechnoSquare ecu is in a week.. they're putting the final touches on the FAQ & product pages..
Last edited by Chebosto; 07-01-2003 at 01:49 PM.
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07-01-2003, 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Zakira
Hmm, not so sure but I thought Nismo and Nissan Motor sports (here in USA) were not affiliated.
Hmm, not so sure but I thought Nismo and Nissan Motor sports (here in USA) were not affiliated.
07-01-2003, 02:03 PM
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i've seen enough evidence with my own eyes to see the ecu is altering its own code to adapt to your modifications... believe me or not, thats your choice. [/B][/QUOTE]
I believe what the gentleman from Nissan motor sport stated is in agreement with what you are stating. The ECU is definitely holding back the full potential of these add-ons, but not totally.
He also stated that for nismo to come out with a different software upgrade would be very involved government regulations require 50,000 mi. test program for EPA or whatever.
Where and aftermarket company I guess can get around that.
So this ECU upgrade that's coming out next week will it be a switch out type of a deal with a core charge? Or will I need two sand mine in to be reprogram?
[/B][/QUOTE] I believe what the gentleman from Nissan motor sport stated is in agreement with what you are stating. The ECU is definitely holding back the full potential of these add-ons, but not totally.
He also stated that for nismo to come out with a different software upgrade would be very involved government regulations require 50,000 mi. test program for EPA or whatever.
Where and aftermarket company I guess can get around that.
So this ECU upgrade that's coming out next week will it be a switch out type of a deal with a core charge? Or will I need two sand mine in to be reprogram?
07-01-2003, 02:37 PM
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For GM, Ford and Mopar vehicles you can purchase a Hypertech Power Commander for the vehicle which reflashes and allows for adjustments for tire size, gear ratio etc. It bumps timing and reconfigures air/fuel. You buy the whole Device and plug it in a switch the programs from stock to modified and vice versa. The cost is around 325 dollars. I know we aren't driving GMs, Fords or Mopars, but the concept is exactly the same and should not cost a dime more. Don't give R&D because the Hypertech programmers have never cost more than 325. How about it Chebosto? Are we going to do this right or the old fashioned mail-it-in ghetto route? I think we should petition Hypertech for these units.
edit: look into it http://www.hypertech-inc.com/
edit: look into it http://www.hypertech-inc.com/
07-01-2003, 03:13 PM
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yo chebosto...i was wondering if you have any news on the ecu programming for the autos..you said there was some interesting things about the auto but you left it at that.. any info would be greatly appreciated.
nick
nick
07-01-2003, 03:47 PM
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I read in some minor magazine (but I thought was intriguing) that our ECU is so sensitive that it WILL dial back gains UNLESS the part is designed correctly (for the Z). I went with the Nismo CAI because I think Nismo, being subsidiary of Nissan, is the only one with the inside info to get it right. I mean, how else would Nismo/Nissan release such a mod without releasing a new ECU, if the stock one was going to negate the gains? To me, it seems like a plausible explanation for what's going on. I wonder if Chebosto can add his thought on that.
07-01-2003, 04:14 PM
#13
Yet again, it is more than just pluggin in what seems to be a memory card into the dianostics port and pressing 'upload.'
I'm quite sure these Hypertech programmers dont cost all that much to produce, but if you've ever come from a hardware engineer's perspective, programming the assembly language to control such a device after its been designed to work might take some time, no doubt about it. like i said. it might be a future project that TechnoSqure/techtom might pursue, but having it available right this instant, probably not.
you'll probably have to make sure the programming language that you're saving the ECU flash code on is the same that this little hypertech device can understand too, as far as asking the questions and selecting buttons, that just adds to the complexity.. but very interesting gadget i might add..
but for now, its going to be the mail-in-route... and its been like that for quite a few years now...
petition hypertech to build an unit is an idea, but make sure they understand the differences in their inital ECU software coding and ours.. i've never personally seen a Mopar ECU code before... could be very different or very much the same.. i dunno..
as for the Automagic Zs, i am not allowed to release any pertinant information currently, its still under wraps. but when the offical launch occurs, there will be a full detailed product function list of what they changed and what it means to you the end user....
Zakira- as for a 'specifically' designed for the Z, most parts have been, and are still looking at some type of adverse ecu response.... i mean, for sure the nismo cai will make some power, but you might have seen the inital 14hp gain or so from injen, and then a few monthes later the peopel redynoing occuring with some loss of power, well. alot of people are wondering where the loss in power was caused from.. the ecu is just 1 theory (which i think is quite true) about the ECU having to be the culprit for that....
I'm quite sure these Hypertech programmers dont cost all that much to produce, but if you've ever come from a hardware engineer's perspective, programming the assembly language to control such a device after its been designed to work might take some time, no doubt about it. like i said. it might be a future project that TechnoSqure/techtom might pursue, but having it available right this instant, probably not.
you'll probably have to make sure the programming language that you're saving the ECU flash code on is the same that this little hypertech device can understand too, as far as asking the questions and selecting buttons, that just adds to the complexity.. but very interesting gadget i might add..
but for now, its going to be the mail-in-route... and its been like that for quite a few years now...
petition hypertech to build an unit is an idea, but make sure they understand the differences in their inital ECU software coding and ours.. i've never personally seen a Mopar ECU code before... could be very different or very much the same.. i dunno..
as for the Automagic Zs, i am not allowed to release any pertinant information currently, its still under wraps. but when the offical launch occurs, there will be a full detailed product function list of what they changed and what it means to you the end user....
Zakira- as for a 'specifically' designed for the Z, most parts have been, and are still looking at some type of adverse ecu response.... i mean, for sure the nismo cai will make some power, but you might have seen the inital 14hp gain or so from injen, and then a few monthes later the peopel redynoing occuring with some loss of power, well. alot of people are wondering where the loss in power was caused from.. the ecu is just 1 theory (which i think is quite true) about the ECU having to be the culprit for that....
Originally posted by Mr. Potato Head
For GM, Ford and Mopar vehicles you can purchase a Hypertech Power Commander for the vehicle which reflashes and allows for adjustments for tire size, gear ratio etc. It bumps timing and reconfigures air/fuel. You buy the whole Device and plug it in a switch the programs from stock to modified and vice versa. The cost is around 325 dollars. I know we aren't driving GMs, Fords or Mopars, but the concept is exactly the same and should not cost a dime more. Don't give R&D because the Hypertech programmers have never cost more than 325. How about it Chebosto? Are we going to do this right or the old fashioned mail-it-in ghetto route? I think we should petition Hypertech for these units.
edit: look into it http://www.hypertech-inc.com/
For GM, Ford and Mopar vehicles you can purchase a Hypertech Power Commander for the vehicle which reflashes and allows for adjustments for tire size, gear ratio etc. It bumps timing and reconfigures air/fuel. You buy the whole Device and plug it in a switch the programs from stock to modified and vice versa. The cost is around 325 dollars. I know we aren't driving GMs, Fords or Mopars, but the concept is exactly the same and should not cost a dime more. Don't give R&D because the Hypertech programmers have never cost more than 325. How about it Chebosto? Are we going to do this right or the old fashioned mail-it-in ghetto route? I think we should petition Hypertech for these units.
edit: look into it http://www.hypertech-inc.com/
07-01-2003, 07:03 PM
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Chebosto, no criticism, but the reason I brought up the Shark Injector is it's simple and owner friendly and no shipping back and forth. Not many owners want to ship ECU around with car down. Conforti is a two or three person op so this is not big bucks, high effort. And believe me, the BMW ECU is at least as complex as Z and BMW is even more secretive than Nissan. Check with your guys and see about the feasiblity. Prom burners are cheap and easy and much practical-ever flash a bios .
.
07-01-2003, 07:22 PM
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You know Chebosto, if Technosquare is not willing to give the consumers what they would rather have, why not sell the program to Hypertech and then work a deal to receive royalties for the sales? I mean come on, what kind of logic is, "That is how it has always been done?" If the world functioned that way we would not even have the wheel much less computer controlled cars. SHIFT_CHANGE baby.
07-01-2003, 08:29 PM
#19
Guys! totally i would! but its TechnoSquare's program.. they did all the tuning... its THEIR property.. i doubt they would sell it unless someone offered like $1 million or something... (just hypotetically speaking)
TechnoSquare IS giving the owners what they want: an ECU program for US spec Zs.. isnt that what you wanted all along?? beggars cant be choosers, especially in this field. if you want to wait for a hand-held, then perhaps you should until you find one that suits your time frame/schedule... i can only suggest the idea to them.. and if i had some extra time off work, maybe get with my EE friends to come up with the board layout. but that would take a while.. cuz they're all workin' too...
Piggy back board design is tough... stand alone is harder. and an handheld is some boo-koo bucks... just ask any chip designer, if you can come up with something better than TechnoSquare can, please be my guest Potato Head, and we can get something going on distribution or something that would benefit the rest of the car owners..
because i'm sure there are alot of other people like that think like you do, who dont want to shut the car down on a friday, miss out on their car for a weekend, and get their ecu on the following monday or something... its hard. i've been w/o a car for 6 monthes. i can understand your frustration.
In the current ECU programming world, at least in the Import ecu world, its always been you send in your ecu and get it sent back.. i'm not going to get into this discussion yet again. the horse has been beaten... and turned to glue...
i will ask technosquare the options, but its going to be a send in and return process.
TechnoSquare IS giving the owners what they want: an ECU program for US spec Zs.. isnt that what you wanted all along?? beggars cant be choosers, especially in this field. if you want to wait for a hand-held, then perhaps you should until you find one that suits your time frame/schedule... i can only suggest the idea to them.. and if i had some extra time off work, maybe get with my EE friends to come up with the board layout. but that would take a while.. cuz they're all workin' too...
Piggy back board design is tough... stand alone is harder. and an handheld is some boo-koo bucks... just ask any chip designer, if you can come up with something better than TechnoSquare can, please be my guest Potato Head, and we can get something going on distribution or something that would benefit the rest of the car owners..
because i'm sure there are alot of other people like that think like you do, who dont want to shut the car down on a friday, miss out on their car for a weekend, and get their ecu on the following monday or something... its hard. i've been w/o a car for 6 monthes. i can understand your frustration.
In the current ECU programming world, at least in the Import ecu world, its always been you send in your ecu and get it sent back.. i'm not going to get into this discussion yet again. the horse has been beaten... and turned to glue...
i will ask technosquare the options, but its going to be a send in and return process.
07-01-2003, 08:39 PM
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Well, first I hope people realize that it is more than a weekend down with this type of application. Every single time the dealer reflashes or there is a problem, say dead battery or something, the car will be down 3 days because of mail. Another simple solution would be to simply purchase a Hypertech Power Programmer and apply it to a car that someone has. Open the thing up, check out layout and I am sure TS has the means to read what it does to a computer. It is a little more work but I guarantee that they will do more Z ECU business if they do this. I know I won't be going the ECU route until there is something like this available. It just simply is not worth it (to me). If you can give the consumer the control of deciding when, how and where they want to tune their computer then more will pay you for your product. Simple to me really. Sell them on this Chebosto. You will be awesome.