SlamMan

Give it to em' good Max. Were all behind you. Keep us updated. Good luck.

12SecZ

Yeah I took a picture of his window that says authorized ATI Pro Charger Installer or something similiar. I just finished reading his hard to read 4 page rant full of typos and misspellings because it was rushed (rather than fix my car while we were enroute for the 35 minute drive he was typing the 4 page rant invoice) and it had yesterdays date on it and he crossed it out and hand changed it. The invoice is unlike anything I have ever seen, it's rantings about everything , personal issues unrelated to the car etc like me calling him a "dick." All of this on a car shop invoice! The BOR wants a copy of everything I have and then they will assign someone. We as consumers have rights. I am not sure what involvement ATI can play in this matter and why I was sold the smaller pulley's? It also said they don't do Dyno's or something like that or maybe it is "tuning" w/o the customer being present on and on etc etc. They Dynoed my car when I wasn't present isn't that "tuning?"

12SecZ

Paul you have clearly lied and you know it. I can tell you this I have also been around high perfromance vehicles all my life and have been working on them for over 15 years. I have much more experience at this line of work than either of you. This is by No means discreating Brandon as he seems to have good knowledge of cars and is eager to help anyone who needs a helping hand. As I clearly stated in one of my previuos posts that I was willing to help you if the lies stop. I told you the 3 hours of labor was an estimate to pull the blower & bracket out of the car so we could install the new pulleys for your increase in boost. I also said that while we had it apart we would clean the oil out of the innercooler & ducting system, is there any mention of charging for this, NO. We were doing this to try and help you get the car running properly. You are saying that the PCV hose was routed wrong but yesterday when we talked to Crawford WHO YOU WANTED US TO CALL, we confirmed that it was done right. As I have always said, we were going to research the issue (blowing oil out of the crankcase) so it could be fixed then we would proceed to install the pulleys and retune for the increase in boost. I believe when you state the hos ewas routed wrong that you are in reference to the by-pass. The by-pass can be dumped back into the inlet side of the blower or dumped to atmosphere if the air has not been metered by the mas air flow sensor.
You can keep being a jerk or bring the car by so we can do as I have stated over & over. We (meaning you & I)ere waiting to do the work until after we confirmed that there was no internal damage done to the motor and after we had a chance to talk with ProCharger about what would be causing your problem. It is just odd that the car ran fine here on the dyno with you present and didn't have any issues for several days. The choice is yours.
I am confussed as to why you said that I never liked you? I never knew you prior to doing the install on your car. Since you were a friend of Brandons and we like Brandon it was in my best interest to do you right. I get no fringe benefits or gratitude by having an unhappy customer. Since this was the first Z install we have no choice but to go by the manual and this is what we used. There are kits that we do alot of and do not need the manual for, this was not one of them. On certain cars we do things a little differnt than the instructions may say, but that is because we feel certain things may fit better or look cleaner. Not because the way they show will not wrok. I never said that anything in the instructions of the 350Z kit were wrong. You told me that there were things that were wrong. I asked you what and how you know. You stated that Crawford told you this, this is why we called him when you were here. If you want us to proceed to get the car runing properly again all you have to do is let us know. We have NEVER told you we would not help.


Last edited by FFP on 08-14-2003 at 09:38 AM


Paul, you are the biggest lier I have ever seen. When you were here yesterday you claimed that Crawford Z said that there were all kinds of errors in the instructions. I never said that there is or is not errors in the instructions, I strictly went off what you (Paul) stated. There was one that you said could possibly pertain to your problem, it was the one about the PCV hose. We called Crawford with you here and you even talked to him about the PCV. We confirmed that the supposed mistake was not done to your car, and it WAS hooked up properly. Crawford even stated that he suspected that it MIGHT be bad rings from the nitrous or something internal which was also I thought. You claimed that I never call you back, we talked this morning and I called you again tonight at 8:30 after I got off the dyno. After talking to you this morning you said that the car was running better since we removed the vent from the inlet of the blower and let it vent to atmosphere. You also said that you had the motor checked out to confirm that there was no internal damage (took it to a dealership). We both were going to contact ProCharger about the vent issue and would talk again tonight which we did. Brandon claimed that he let the by-pass valve dump to atmosphere rather than having it dump back to the inlet of the blower. He said that this helped the crankcase issue. I am not saying it did or did not but we did it according to the instruction manual. As we told you when you first came here that we install and tune alot of Procharger cars but this would be the first 350Z, so if there were any issues we would have to work together on them. Yesterday I told you that once we figured out what was going on with the crankcase pressure that we would charge you only to put on the new pulleys that you wanted in order to increase the boost to around 9-10psi. I also told you that while it was apart we would clean the oil out of the innercooler & ducting system. I also told you that I would give you a discount on the dyno time to tune the car for the increase in boost. This pulley change to increase the boost beyond that of the 7psi kit was not part of the install price. How is this not working with you or as you said not offering any assistence? After we talked this morning I told you that I finaly managed to get some spark plugs in for you at a price of $35.00 a set vs the $90 or so dollars you said you were paying from the dealer. The only thing that I said that I would not help you with was fixing the motors internals if there was something wrong. This was because we both agreed that we did the install according to the instructions and you were here when we tuned the car so you know the air/fuel was right on target (11.5-12.0). Since the car previously had nitrous we have no way of knowing what kind of condition the motor is in, this is why it makes it even harder to take resposibilty if there had been internal damage. You have yet to point out to anyone on this board what we did wrong. The only thing Brandon said he found was that suppsedly there was a hose clamp left off of the PCV hose extension. This would not cause the crankcase issue. The car probably started running better because the volume of oil the motor was sucking in through the crank case has been reduced since we vented it to atmosphere. It took a little driving to clean the inlet pipes out of oil. As I told you before I would help you figure out what was wrong and to get the car running better but if you are going to tell me one thing when we talk on the phone then get on the board and lie about the facts then you will be on your own.
One other issue we had was you claimed we did not give you a piece of you cold air kit back when we removed it from the car. You claimed that your buddy installed the system on his car without this part and lost a race because of it. Through your e-mails to your friend you were calling me a dick and were talking all kinds of ****. I let it go and still proceeded to help you with your car. Now for the funny part:This supposed part that we did not give you back, it was your factory Mass Air Flow Sensor which was still on your car. Also your friend never even installed the kit on his car as you had claimed, because I have a copy of his e-mail in which he states this.
You have lied about alot of issues with nothing to support your claims nor have you been specific as to what we did wrong that could have caused this problem. I on the other hand I do have proof, I saved all the e-mails that I could easily post for everyone one to see.
I understand that you had an issue that is very fustrating but it is not right to start talking **** & pointing fingers to someone who did nothing wrong and who offered to help resolve the issue. You are hot headed and jump the gun with your mouth a little to soon. If you would learn to stay calm and handle this like an adult you will find that you will get farther in life.
So state the facts and quit lieing and I will help you as I said I would or you can go on lieing and proceed to another shop.
I appologize to everyone for this drama. It just irritates me to see lies like this. Anyone can make posts wether they are true or not but there is always more than meets the eye. I invite anyone to come to our shop to check out our facility or check us out at our website. I hope that one person who is full of lies will not ruin the possible relationship that we could have with you. We were looking forward to installing these kits on a car that appear to be a blast. The relationship would be mutually benefitial.


Last edited by FFP on 08-13-2003 at 11:33 PM


I just took the bumper off of his car and there is OIL ALL OVER THE PLACE !!!!!!!!! I have been a long time Forced Fed Perf. Supporter and Told Max and jimmy to go there. Now I look like a *** and feel hella bad. Now I am tryin to figure out what the Hell got screwed up. Oil Is blowing out of The PCV Valve and SOAKED the air filter and appeintly when thay looked at it yesterday the Filter was not put back on there right and was just laying on top of the intercooler. And i did a compression check and got 160-172 in all cylenders wich is all with in spec apperntly. Ia m not speking for Max but i am lookin into it and to me it looks lieka jsut a flocked up install. granted i am not a "certified" Mech but i have been building and driving race cars my hole life. I have never seen a shop take such FUNCKED up care of a coustomer (at least not one that is still in bussnes) I appologize to Max and James for wasting there time.
~B

12SecZ

12SecZ

It's now a different part after I took it back in.
Initial drop off date 7-30-03 final return date not to my "satisfaction" 8-20-03 with different parts and a grind under my hood to get it to close. You be the judge.

Before

12SecZ

I will save the after pic for court along with his bizzarre 4 page rant and the audio tha he says the car was messed up before he ever met me. See above and read it all, he says the car was fine on the Dyno but in his 4 page rant invoice today he says otherwise. Libel, defamation and a broken car.

Chebosto

iTrader: (43)

i dunno about the audio, unless FFP had concent for you to record everything, your judge might not take it as evidence..

12SecZ

It's public, I don't need consent for public tapings Ches. No FCC rules apply. I know the law, I have recorded people before in my line of work, besides I said I was taping it and he said "that's fine." I have other contridictions in both writing and on tape but the positive news is I have a great guy I have known since the year 2000 that recently joined here and is doing someone elses ATI Pro Charger on here (local to me, a friend) and he Dave Black Magic Racing is going to help me get y car back on the road! It's gonna be time consuming to fight this, but I have time and the law on my side.

spazpilot

iTrader: (2)

max:

i was thinking about your situation.. Have you thought about calling ati and setting up something like you sending back this peaced together procharger and getting a new kit with all new hardware. with the crapy job FFP did i would talk to ati about it. there could be stuff missing, chopped up or messed up after all this. then i would fix the car, put on the new supercharger and get your money back plus labor for repairs and new intall from FFP. It is just a thought. thats what i would aim for. even if your engine is perfect the supercharger might not be.

12SecZ

FFP will never touch my car again, if I am reading your post right. I would hope ATI would explain his 4 page rant about the FMU settings being incorrect and this "new" piece though and I hope I don't have to pay 3k enhgine plus 2k labot 5k to fix this! If so what goes around comes around back to whoever is responsible via Karma.

12SecZ

This paper work they gave seems off to me. It says the engine is "10.25 to 1" and should get 180 in each cylinder, this doesn't jive with what I was told elswhere and is this right for cylinders 2,4,6,1,4,6? That's in writing from FFP along with "PVC" valves. What is a PVC valve? It says in order to be smog legal I need a sealed PVC system (not PCV?) I truly can't understand this 4 full page rant about Nitrous, Brandon, lying name calling etc. It doesn't help me understand *anything* about what went wrong because it drifts and is personal an unprofesional rather than like hat a normal shop would be. Picture those above posts from FFP I quoted being prited out onto a 4 page Invoice stamped "paid" and you will understand what I am looking at (and refused to sign.)

Blck Mgc Rcng

Don't worry Max... We'll get your beast rolling again.

I'm getting this Pro-Charger install down pretty good. Actually it surprised me how nice the Nissans are to work on. A few tight areas, but overall they're not too bad. I can't wait to get James' car going so I can "test" it... I've got a friend with an LS1 Vette... He's so friggin' cocky I'd love to wipe the smirk off his face! I know, I know... No speeding in the customer cars...

Dave

12SecZ

Thanks Dave! You Da Man!

FFP

I will post the facts in the morning.

elektrik_juggernaut

Alright Dave!.......glad to hear my car's doing well.........feel free to post any install pics........that would be really cool if you could get Max going too.........Have fun on that test drive

12SecZ

To late I copied it, nice try though truth always wins. See your ongoing harrasement below.

ATI Install
I have been moitoring this post for a while. It seems as though everyone has jumped on the band wagon as if Max has stated the facts. Hasn't anyone wondered what the other side of the story is, there is two sides?
One key thing Max has never mentioned is the fact that he raced his car at Sacramento race way with his nitrous & fuel lines crossed up. We were not aware of this either until we were well into the installation of this kit. I talked to Max about this and he confirmed it to be true. I told him that there could possibly be some damage to the motor (prexisting condition) and that the blower could make it worse. He said that he felt the motor was fine. I think it is kind of funny that during the dyno tuning (with Max present) there was not a problem with the oil, this came apx. 3 days later & the car now has apx 300 miles on it since the install. I will give you an example of a prexisting condition in which you are not aware of the problem but something triggers it. I have heard of people living a normal life but when they go in for an annual check up with the doctor they are told that they have cancer. There may have been small signs of it but it was not really that noticable. They try to treat the cancel but it ends up making the cancer go out of control. This is what I feel happened to Maxs car, the boost made the problem prevelent.
I hate that Max had to be the one with the bad luck, but as he previously stated maybe its carma. Just because he has problems with his car does not mean that ProCharger or us FFP did anything wrong. I have had great success with ATI and they always have been very helpful. I know that this kit is a new kit, but I was very impressed with the quality and had no problems with the install. Once you have installed one they are actually pretty easy. I have installed a ton of ATI kits over the last 5 years & I have never had a problem of this nature, maybe part of the problem is the person we had to deal with? I hope that people will take the time to evaluate the over all picture before staying on Maxs band wagon of smashing. He needs to be an adult and realize this problem did not occur overnight. They were things that lead up to this that had nothing to do with ATI or us. He needs to take responsibilty and not pass the problem off on someone else. We as well as ATI have tried to help him, but we can not take resposibilty for something we did not do.
Look at his cars horse power before the procharger as well as the after. Make note that his car prior to the ATI install had a Injen cold air kit, a modified intake manifold & a complete after market cat-back. His horse power was just a little shy of what I here stock 350z's making, shouldn't the power be higher with all these mods? After the ATI install his car was down on horse power from what ATI says it should be and his car now has Borla headers & Borla complete cat-back. This further confirms that there probably was a prexisting condition.
Please click on the link below so you can see the otherside of the story. Make note of the dates on the e-mails as they might not be scanned in the proper order. Here is something that I thing is quite humorus, pay close attention to the missing part of the Injen cold air kit. This missing piece caused his friend to lose a race because he installed the kit without it. Also note his friend never actually installed the kit so how could he have lost a race because of it? Better yet how could the car have even run without a mass air meter? Thanks for your time, Iwill post his dyno info. on the next post.

http://www.forcefedperformance.com/...axson/index.htm



Report

12SecZ

Why did you work on a motor that you thought had a "pre exsisting" condition? N20 was disabled when you got my car in PERFECT running condition, then you did at least 7 Bone Stock Dyno's. Let that sink in and reread everything you have said. God is good, I caught your lies before you could *edit* them. Justice will prevail. The "friend" is a well respected member here, you are digging a hole you can't get out of. He did lose the race.

12SecZ

Oh and stop libeling and defaming me. Why would anyone let someone work on their car after you say what you claim you stated (that it would damage my motor.) Strike 3 pay me. The car came in on 7-30-03 and got it still blowing smoke and oil on 8-20-03. When you got it it ran perfect I have witnesses, when it left after I almost had to call the Sherriff (Jimmy was on the phone, my wife was there and I had the tape running) it is blowing oil and smoke and you did it and that is the facts and I will see you in Court FFP. Nothing further need I add. Sling your libel and hate for years it will not change the truth and this is not a debate forum. You took a PERFECT running car and ruined it. Bottom line!

tbcz

MaxHax and FFP,

I have closed this thread and its long running sister thread. My reasons are as follows...

I think at this point it is in the best interests of both parties to settle this situation privately, be it face to face or through your legal representatives. I'm not saying that we are not eager to hear the outcome or that you may not post about it in the future...I just think a little cooling off period is warranted, at least as far as airing grievences on this forum is concerned. Both sides have stated "facts" backing up their stance. These are apparently at odds and are in dispute. I do not wish this forum to be used as a tool by either Paul or FFP to defame the other. With each party pointing the finger at the other, and little more than words in cyberspace to back it up, it is difficult to determine who is at fault here...perhaps it is a combination of both or possibly neither. Either way, I think enough $hit has been flung until further concrete developments have taken place.

Like I said, I think this is best for both parties right now...it is not intended personally towards either Paul or FFP. Please PM me with any thoughts or questions. Thanks.

tbcz

P.S. I have had no contact with either party involved, and am not acting on anyone's request. Strictly an action taken in the interests of those involved (MaxHax, FFP and the site). I will make sure the final outcome is known when this is all said and done with. If FFP is gulity of dishonest business practices, the forum members should know about it. On the other hand, if they have been acting in good faith, then the members should know that too.