APS Oil Pan owners who have had problems - Please Help Me
12-01-2008, 06:25 PM
#1
APS Oil Pan owners who have had problems - Please Help Me
Hi everyone. I am beyond frustrated (livid) right now, but I keep telling myself this could be a worse problem.
With that said, I am really hoping I can get some help from those who have experienced leaking problems, or problems in general, with their APS oil pan.
The pan is leaking from the drain plug.
I have used three different kinds of M14 washers (drain plug gaskets) to try to solve this problem...all have failed. The first was an aluminum washer with a "thicker" ring, the second was an aluminum washer with a thinner ring, and the third was a thick-ring copper washer.
When I first got the pan a few months ago, I didn't know what to torque the drain plug to, so I just used the factory spec of 25 ft. lbs. As I tightened, I thought this spec was a little high. It just didn't feel right. So I loosened the plug, and tightened it to 25 Nm (18 ft. lbs), as this is the torque spec I use on my BMW, which also has an aluminum pan.
I changed the oil about 4 days ago, and then it started leaking when I replaced the plug and filled the motor with fresh oil. Over the last 3 days, I have tried the different kinds of washers with no luck.
I made sure I noted today (when I swapped to the copper washer) how the drain plug threaded into the pan. It threaded pretty effortlessly - almost too effortlessly - as I was twisting it in. It only stopped threading easily when the "hat" of the drain plug came in contact with the oil pan's surface...if that makes sense. That seems pretty obvious that it stopped when all the threads were in, but you'd think you'd feel a bit more resistance as I got to the last few threads of the plug...just like with a normal bolt. The plug did hold the 25 Nm (18 ft. lbs.) torque, though, and did not strip.
I have another type of washer to try. One with a rubber o-ring fixed in the center. But, I'm not even motivated to try it given my luck so far. A copper washer should be just fine.
SORRY for the long post! I just wanted to get all the details out in the open.
Please help! Thank you.
With that said, I am really hoping I can get some help from those who have experienced leaking problems, or problems in general, with their APS oil pan.
The pan is leaking from the drain plug.
I have used three different kinds of M14 washers (drain plug gaskets) to try to solve this problem...all have failed. The first was an aluminum washer with a "thicker" ring, the second was an aluminum washer with a thinner ring, and the third was a thick-ring copper washer.
When I first got the pan a few months ago, I didn't know what to torque the drain plug to, so I just used the factory spec of 25 ft. lbs. As I tightened, I thought this spec was a little high. It just didn't feel right. So I loosened the plug, and tightened it to 25 Nm (18 ft. lbs), as this is the torque spec I use on my BMW, which also has an aluminum pan.
I changed the oil about 4 days ago, and then it started leaking when I replaced the plug and filled the motor with fresh oil. Over the last 3 days, I have tried the different kinds of washers with no luck.
I made sure I noted today (when I swapped to the copper washer) how the drain plug threaded into the pan. It threaded pretty effortlessly - almost too effortlessly - as I was twisting it in. It only stopped threading easily when the "hat" of the drain plug came in contact with the oil pan's surface...if that makes sense. That seems pretty obvious that it stopped when all the threads were in, but you'd think you'd feel a bit more resistance as I got to the last few threads of the plug...just like with a normal bolt. The plug did hold the 25 Nm (18 ft. lbs.) torque, though, and did not strip.
I have another type of washer to try. One with a rubber o-ring fixed in the center. But, I'm not even motivated to try it given my luck so far. A copper washer should be just fine.
SORRY for the long post! I just wanted to get all the details out in the open.
Please help! Thank you.
Last edited by blackfairlady; 12-01-2008 at 06:30 PM.
12-01-2008, 07:44 PM
#6
I was thinking about it, and it seems like my only options to prevent having this from continuing to be a problem are: 1) Fumoto drain valve (recommended by CoachK), so I don't have to keep unscrewing and re-screwing in the plug into the soft aluminum every oil change 2) Get rid of the APS pan altogether and get an OEM pan again (can you say downgrade and $$$ down the drain?) 3) Drill and Re-Tap to a bigger size: but, like i said, the same leaking could continue every time I remove and rescrew the plug during oil changes.
I have a magnetic drain plug, so I'd like to retain that. But if it comes down to it, I'd rather sacrifice this "insurance" and retain my APS pan instead of having to go back to stock, and just run the Fumoto.
I have a magnetic drain plug, so I'd like to retain that. But if it comes down to it, I'd rather sacrifice this "insurance" and retain my APS pan instead of having to go back to stock, and just run the Fumoto.
Last edited by blackfairlady; 12-01-2008 at 07:47 PM.
12-01-2008, 08:05 PM
#7
This is my .02 cents on this Andrew.
First of all, the APS pan is as soft as butter. I've had the same problem as you, my solution, buy a new APS pan ( i run an APS tt kit so i had to). The fumoto valve sits too low on my car since I'm lowered and i didn't want to chance the valve getting lopped off while driving. So on my new APS pan, i put some high temperature thread sealant on the threads. I threaded the plug into until it became flush with the washer and the pan then stopped. I'm not sure what torque was used but it wasn't even tight to my standards.
here is what i used.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ad_Sealant.htm
First of all, the APS pan is as soft as butter. I've had the same problem as you, my solution, buy a new APS pan ( i run an APS tt kit so i had to). The fumoto valve sits too low on my car since I'm lowered and i didn't want to chance the valve getting lopped off while driving. So on my new APS pan, i put some high temperature thread sealant on the threads. I threaded the plug into until it became flush with the washer and the pan then stopped. I'm not sure what torque was used but it wasn't even tight to my standards.
here is what i used.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ad_Sealant.htm
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12-01-2008, 08:39 PM
#8
This is my .02 cents on this Andrew.
First of all, the APS pan is as soft as butter. I've had the same problem as you, my solution, buy a new APS pan ( i run an APS tt kit so i had to). The fumoto valve sits too low on my car since I'm lowered and i didn't want to chance the valve getting lopped off while driving. So on my new APS pan, i put some high temperature thread sealant on the threads. I threaded the plug into until it became flush with the washer and the pan then stopped. I'm not sure what torque was used but it wasn't even tight to my standards.
here is what i used.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ad_Sealant.htm
First of all, the APS pan is as soft as butter. I've had the same problem as you, my solution, buy a new APS pan ( i run an APS tt kit so i had to). The fumoto valve sits too low on my car since I'm lowered and i didn't want to chance the valve getting lopped off while driving. So on my new APS pan, i put some high temperature thread sealant on the threads. I threaded the plug into until it became flush with the washer and the pan then stopped. I'm not sure what torque was used but it wasn't even tight to my standards.
here is what i used.
http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ad_Sealant.htm
Buy a new pan?
I'm lowered too, but only on Hotchkis. Regardless, I see the risk in running the Fumoto.
So you just clean off the old, and use new thread sealant every time you change the oil?
12-01-2008, 08:53 PM
#9
ABishop! I just read your post in this thread https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...in-plug-3.html that the APS drain plug is supposed to be torqued to 8 ft. lbs! I wish I had known that from the get-go!
I have e-mailed APS FOUR times asking them about what the correct torque for the plug was supposed to be, and they did not respond to me whatsoever. They probably read the part of the e-mail where I mentioned i had been using the stock spec of 25 ft. lbs. to torque the plug in the very beginning, and then how I moved down to a lower torque spec of 18 ft. lbs, and figured I had already stripped the drain plug. They probably knew the next thing I'd ask is for a refund since it's their own fault they didn't include a torque spec for the drain plug in their product info.
I am SO mad right now... This could have been prevented. WHY APS?! Why don't you redesign your oil pans or provide simple torquing information? And why don't you respond to my e-mails! .....I just need someone to talk to, I swear. 
I have e-mailed APS FOUR times asking them about what the correct torque for the plug was supposed to be, and they did not respond to me whatsoever. They probably read the part of the e-mail where I mentioned i had been using the stock spec of 25 ft. lbs. to torque the plug in the very beginning, and then how I moved down to a lower torque spec of 18 ft. lbs, and figured I had already stripped the drain plug. They probably knew the next thing I'd ask is for a refund since it's their own fault they didn't include a torque spec for the drain plug in their product info.
I am SO mad right now... This could have been prevented. WHY APS?! Why don't you redesign your oil pans or provide simple torquing information? And why don't you respond to my e-mails! .....I just need someone to talk to, I swear.
Last edited by blackfairlady; 12-01-2008 at 08:58 PM.
12-02-2008, 05:24 AM
#10
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Like Abishop said the APS pan is soft. Every time you screw and unscrew the plug,its inevitable its going to strip the threads and leak. If you want to keep the pan you can tap it and go with a bigger plug or use the Fumoto. I'm sure over torqueing the plug was probably not a good idea, but even when I would change my oil and tq it to correct specs(which was alot less than what you did),it still stripped. Fumoto is the way to go imo
12-02-2008, 06:21 AM
#11
You're right. The Fumoto really sounds like it's my best option. It obviously will be the most cost-effective for me, as well, instead of switching to another pan.
I'm just worried about the Fumoto leaking when I drill, re-tap, and screw that in, given the fragility of the APS. I see the plug comes with a gasket, but should I supplement that with any sort of thread sealant before I install it?
Even though I will be effectively screwing this valve in only once after the drill / re-tap is complete, I'm still very worried about the oil pan threads stripping. How much should I aim to tighten it? 1/8 turn past finger tight? 1/4?
I'm just worried about the Fumoto leaking when I drill, re-tap, and screw that in, given the fragility of the APS. I see the plug comes with a gasket, but should I supplement that with any sort of thread sealant before I install it?
Even though I will be effectively screwing this valve in only once after the drill / re-tap is complete, I'm still very worried about the oil pan threads stripping. How much should I aim to tighten it? 1/8 turn past finger tight? 1/4?
Last edited by blackfairlady; 12-02-2008 at 06:24 AM.
12-02-2008, 07:54 AM
#15
I was just looking for some specifics on how you did the install, which that thread does not really detail. I see you ground down some of the fins, and used some type of sealer in the pictures. It looks like you didn't end up using the adapter that is optional with the purchase of the Fumoto. And did you order it from www.quickoildrainvalve.com?
Still looking for an answer to this: "Even though I will be effectively screwing this valve in only once after the drill / re-tap is complete, I'm still very worried about the oil pan threads stripping. How much should I aim to tighten it? 1/8 turn past finger tight? 1/4?"
I really appreciate all the information from all who have responded.
12-02-2008, 10:37 AM
#17
I don't mean to be a pain, but could you answer my questions about the valve install? That's kind of what I'm most concerned with. Did you not install it yourself?
I'm just trying to think of how much I should aim to tighten the thing without putting myself back in the same crappy situation I'm in now.
12-02-2008, 12:03 PM
#18
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I took the lower pan off and made the hole 18mm. While the pan was off I grinded down the fins (in the picture from the other thread) that were in the way. I tightened the Fumoto down only until it was snug and then a 1/4 turn.
12-02-2008, 12:31 PM
#19
Now only one last concern (that I can think of, lol). I've looked at the pics of your Fumoto installed, and I can't seem to figure something out.
Surrounded in yellow (sorry for my terrible editing skills), I've highlighted the machined flat area around the drain hole on an unmodified APS oil pan.
The Fumoto valve will use a hole with a larger diameter, which also means drilling away a portion of that flat surface meant to provide a good seal for the drain plug gasket. My question is: will there be enough of that flat, machined, circular area left for the washer / "hat" of the Fumoto plug to mate up to, or will it extend over the edge of that "plateau"? In other words, will the diamter of the Fumoto + Gasket be greater than the diameter of that flat machined portion?
Last edited by blackfairlady; 12-02-2008 at 01:37 PM.
12-02-2008, 04:24 PM
#20
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Even after you drill the hole bigger, there is still a good flat surface to work with and the outside diameter of the "hat" of the fumoto is almost identical to the outside diameter of the flat surface area. Hope that makes sense