Greddy TT soon to be available
11-06-2003, 04:57 AM
#21
anybody know the rated ab. effeciency of the PE & Greddy compressors? Still seems like the PE compressors are more effecient than the Greddy's. Just curious cause in terms of price, I would rather go with a pricer kit and make more power at less boost, than go with a less expensive kit and have the reverse. Which will give me less headaches and platues but of course a big whole in the pocket hmm....
11-10-2003, 07:35 PM
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Originally posted by Juztin
anybody know the rated ab. effeciency of the PE & Greddy compressors? Still seems like the PE compressors are more effecient than the Greddy's. Just curious cause in terms of price, I would rather go with a pricer kit and make more power at less boost, than go with a less expensive kit and have the reverse. Which will give me less headaches and platues but of course a big whole in the pocket hmm....
anybody know the rated ab. effeciency of the PE & Greddy compressors? Still seems like the PE compressors are more effecient than the Greddy's. Just curious cause in terms of price, I would rather go with a pricer kit and make more power at less boost, than go with a less expensive kit and have the reverse. Which will give me less headaches and platues but of course a big whole in the pocket hmm....
Juztin:
I would agree with you but the only problem I have with the PE kit is that it uses actuators instead of external wastegates like the greddy does.. As for headaches, actuator style wastegates have a tendency for boost creep ( not that the pe kit is doing that). I just can't get myself to pay that much for the PE kit so IT will have to be Greddy or someone elses. my .02
11-10-2003, 08:03 PM
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18G turbos are pretty big aren't they ? My cousin's dsm has a 18G putting out like close to 350-400WHP which is good, considering the greddy kit has 2 of them lol, what size turbos does the PE kit have ?
11-11-2003, 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by IdRockaSupra
My cousin's dsm has a 18G putting out like close to 350-400WHP which is good, considering the greddy kit has 2 of them lol, what size turbos does the PE kit have ?
My cousin's dsm has a 18G putting out like close to 350-400WHP which is good, considering the greddy kit has 2 of them lol, what size turbos does the PE kit have ?
From what I saw at the SEMA show and from what I was told, I would have to assume that the GReddy Twin Turbo Kit will have the potential to put out substantially more power than the PE Kit. I was told by PE that the turbos supplied in their 350Z kit were good for up to 250hp (at the flywheel) each.
I have had a good amount of experience with the GReddy 18G turbocharger, and we've made over to 375 wheel horsepower in a few Civic's with the single 18G which equates to well over 400hp at the flywheel.
Because of the turbocharger sizing difference, I would also have to assume once the boost is turned up slightly (say 10-14psi) the GReddy turbos will deliver substantially more power than the turbos in the PE kit. The 18G turbos really are not anywhere close to their efficiency range at 5psi.
Because the PE kit comes with a smaller setup, it might be better suited for those only planning to run 4 to 6psi of boost.
It’s also worth noting the GReddy Twin Turbo kit comes with dual TIAL external wastegates. The PE kit comes with 380cc injectors, and the GReddy kit is slated to come with 440cc injectors.
In general, the quality (fit and finish, ease of install, thoroughness, etc.) of turbo kits by GReddy have been second to none. I do not have any experince with PE kits yet.
If anyone is interested in either kit, we will be offering *EXTREMELY* great deals on our website at the end of this month to kick off/celebrate a new Sponsorship we have coming up.
So if you are considering the PE or GReddy turbo kit, send me a mail MikeM@alteredatmosphere.com if you have any questions.
Hope this helps,
Thanks,
11-11-2003, 06:44 AM
#27
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And why are EWG bewtter than internal? They are not...absolutely 100% are not..both do exactly the same thing, they just need to be sized properly for the turbo they are controlling. If you get creep with an internally gated turbo it means either
1. your exhaust is too small,
2. your wastegate flapper is too small,
3. you are trying to run to low of a boost pressure.
Many people then just slap on the biggest external gate they can get, and bam...lag city. It does not matter whether you have internal or external - it has to be sized properly for the application.
Many mistakenly believe a wastegate is needed as you turn the boost pressure up - the truth is the reverse...you need a larger wastegate to keep the boost down, and not spike.
As far sa the turbos, both come with very good units, and they are really 6 of 1, half a dozen of another. The 18G is actually the worst of the Mitsu wheels - woefully inefficient, and IMHO, a 16G would have been a far better choice, but that is just me.
I have yet to have a PE turbo go bad on us FWIW..cannot say that about Greddy.....
1. your exhaust is too small,
2. your wastegate flapper is too small,
3. you are trying to run to low of a boost pressure.
Many people then just slap on the biggest external gate they can get, and bam...lag city. It does not matter whether you have internal or external - it has to be sized properly for the application.
Many mistakenly believe a wastegate is needed as you turn the boost pressure up - the truth is the reverse...you need a larger wastegate to keep the boost down, and not spike.
As far sa the turbos, both come with very good units, and they are really 6 of 1, half a dozen of another. The 18G is actually the worst of the Mitsu wheels - woefully inefficient, and IMHO, a 16G would have been a far better choice, but that is just me.
I have yet to have a PE turbo go bad on us FWIW..cannot say that about Greddy.....
11-11-2003, 08:16 AM
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z1 you just answered your own question about external wastegates. when trying to mantain a low boost setting you need a pretty good size wastegate. Most actuators can't do that. the flapper is way to small. To me the pe 1420's look like some rebadge garret turbo with no work on that flapper if ask me. Second actuators are cheap, Had them on my turbo eclipse and they suck. Like I said I will not pay 9k for a turbo kit build cheap. smaller turbo, no external wastegate and to top it off you have to do an ecu upgrade to get more then the 4psi it puts out stock. I can purchase the greddy kit, FMIC, and e0-1 profec/programer for about 2k less and do my own tuning and will never max out the 18g which is good for 420hp crank each. this is just me with previous mitsubishi turbo experience. Oh, one last thing if PE can't take care of there R&D man(ches), you really think there going to take care of us?
11-11-2003, 02:44 PM
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I wish you luck on your E0-1...it is not an easy unit to use at all, and given the complexities of the Nissan ecu, its going to be interesting to see how they react (or fail to react) to the piggyback.
There is absoltely nothing wrong with an internal wastegate at all - hell, my other Z puts out 600 hp at the wheels, and has an internally gated T66......given that I have no expense spared on that car, I could have gone external, but saw 0 need too....added to the piping, the cost and limited my room even further. If I turn the bosot controller off, it will run at 8 psi all day long and not spike at all.
The 1420 is actually quite a nice little unit, and 2 of them will give very nice spool on the 350 motor.
At the end of the day, the real test of these kits is going to be the ecu programming, or the availability of an aftermarket ecu. Till that happens, there is no way I would think about forced induction on this car.
The 1420 is not a huge turbo....heck, the 1820 that we use on WRX's day in and day out is internally gated too and works very very well...not a spike to be seen.
There is absoltely nothing wrong with an internal wastegate at all - hell, my other Z puts out 600 hp at the wheels, and has an internally gated T66......given that I have no expense spared on that car, I could have gone external, but saw 0 need too....added to the piping, the cost and limited my room even further. If I turn the bosot controller off, it will run at 8 psi all day long and not spike at all.
The 1420 is actually quite a nice little unit, and 2 of them will give very nice spool on the 350 motor.
At the end of the day, the real test of these kits is going to be the ecu programming, or the availability of an aftermarket ecu. Till that happens, there is no way I would think about forced induction on this car.
The 1420 is not a huge turbo....heck, the 1820 that we use on WRX's day in and day out is internally gated too and works very very well...not a spike to be seen.
11-11-2003, 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
At the end of the day, the real test of these kits is going to be the ecu programming, or the availability of an aftermarket ecu. Till that happens, there is no way I would think about forced induction on this car.
At the end of the day, the real test of these kits is going to be the ecu programming, or the availability of an aftermarket ecu. Till that happens, there is no way I would think about forced induction on this car.
11-11-2003, 02:54 PM
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not sure - I know nothing about them. What I do know is on a modern car, proper engine management tuned by a competant person makes or breaks a setup. You can have all the best hardware in the world, but if your software cannot run it, its largely wasted, or utterly useless.
Personally, I think we'll see the reflashes become more and more useful to people as additional capabilities are unlocked and more and more tuners start to use it...happened with every other car out there, this should be no exception.
What I am personally looking forward to is a realistic standalone option for those of us that want big power numbers, but don't want to rely on a piggyback to do it.
Personally, I think we'll see the reflashes become more and more useful to people as additional capabilities are unlocked and more and more tuners start to use it...happened with every other car out there, this should be no exception.
What I am personally looking forward to is a realistic standalone option for those of us that want big power numbers, but don't want to rely on a piggyback to do it.
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-11-2003 at 02:56 PM.
11-11-2003, 06:05 PM
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Adam, since you have been through this cycle before of the after market taking time to find out how to provide proper engine management , how much longer do you think it will take for this to happen?
Basically, it took over a year to start getting TT kits and SC kits on the market. Now I am wondering how much longer to get them so they are tuned correctly.
Basically, it took over a year to start getting TT kits and SC kits on the market. Now I am wondering how much longer to get them so they are tuned correctly.
11-11-2003, 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by zland
Adam, since you have been through this cycle before of the after market taking time to find out how to provide proper engine management , how much longer do you think it will take for this to happen?
Basically, it took over a year to start getting TT kits and SC kits on the market. Now I am wondering how much longer to get them so they are tuned correctly.
Adam, since you have been through this cycle before of the after market taking time to find out how to provide proper engine management , how much longer do you think it will take for this to happen?
Basically, it took over a year to start getting TT kits and SC kits on the market. Now I am wondering how much longer to get them so they are tuned correctly.
11-18-2003, 07:09 PM
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Well, there is one ecu ont he market right now I am aware of, by Motec - very expensive though.
I think what you'll see for the 350's is parallel systems rather than fully integrated ones. This would give fuel and ignition control to the "standalone" unit, and leave all other aspects of the factory ecu (CAN network connection, idle up with a/c, cold start, etc.) to the factory computer. We have used this type of system on Subarus for years and it works very very well.
As for Greddy kits, there will be 15 arriving in their container right around Turkey day - all are presold, and no more kits arriving till after the first of the year. Personally, I would not pay for anything till the company you are buying from confirms the kit is in front of them (which is why we are not offering our 1 kit for sale till its in house ready to ship)
I think what you'll see for the 350's is parallel systems rather than fully integrated ones. This would give fuel and ignition control to the "standalone" unit, and leave all other aspects of the factory ecu (CAN network connection, idle up with a/c, cold start, etc.) to the factory computer. We have used this type of system on Subarus for years and it works very very well.
As for Greddy kits, there will be 15 arriving in their container right around Turkey day - all are presold, and no more kits arriving till after the first of the year. Personally, I would not pay for anything till the company you are buying from confirms the kit is in front of them (which is why we are not offering our 1 kit for sale till its in house ready to ship)
11-25-2003, 09:55 PM
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guys,
I read the latest copy of the "OPTION" magazine here today.
They were showing the final prototype of the twin turbo, but it was for RX-8.
As of today Greddy nor TRUST have a TT kit available for 350Z.
Since they are preparing the kit for RX8 which came out a lot later than the 350Z, I think there will not be any Greddy TT kit for 350Z in the future.
PS Blitz is developing the supercharger for RX8. Why do they not develop anything for 350Z??
I read the latest copy of the "OPTION" magazine here today.
They were showing the final prototype of the twin turbo, but it was for RX-8.
As of today Greddy nor TRUST have a TT kit available for 350Z.
Since they are preparing the kit for RX8 which came out a lot later than the 350Z, I think there will not be any Greddy TT kit for 350Z in the future.
PS Blitz is developing the supercharger for RX8. Why do they not develop anything for 350Z??
11-26-2003, 08:55 AM
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supercharged rx8??? why. The better run it w/ an intercooler option! If it is a intake mani- replacement and does not have an aftercooler or intercooler its gonna be dangerous even for the renesis.
11-26-2003, 02:11 PM
#40
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
I wish you luck on your E0-1...it is not an easy unit to use at all, and given the complexities of the Nissan ecu, its going to be interesting to see how they react (or fail to react) to the piggyback.
There is absoltely nothing wrong with an internal wastegate at all - hell, my other Z puts out 600 hp at the wheels, and has an internally gated T66......given that I have no expense spared on that car, I could have gone external, but saw 0 need too....added to the piping, the cost and limited my room even further. If I turn the bosot controller off, it will run at 8 psi all day long and not spike at all.
The 1420 is actually quite a nice little unit, and 2 of them will give very nice spool on the 350 motor.
At the end of the day, the real test of these kits is going to be the ecu programming, or the availability of an aftermarket ecu. Till that happens, there is no way I would think about forced induction on this car.
The 1420 is not a huge turbo....heck, the 1820 that we use on WRX's day in and day out is internally gated too and works very very well...not a spike to be seen.
I wish you luck on your E0-1...it is not an easy unit to use at all, and given the complexities of the Nissan ecu, its going to be interesting to see how they react (or fail to react) to the piggyback.
There is absoltely nothing wrong with an internal wastegate at all - hell, my other Z puts out 600 hp at the wheels, and has an internally gated T66......given that I have no expense spared on that car, I could have gone external, but saw 0 need too....added to the piping, the cost and limited my room even further. If I turn the bosot controller off, it will run at 8 psi all day long and not spike at all.
The 1420 is actually quite a nice little unit, and 2 of them will give very nice spool on the 350 motor.
At the end of the day, the real test of these kits is going to be the ecu programming, or the availability of an aftermarket ecu. Till that happens, there is no way I would think about forced induction on this car.
The 1420 is not a huge turbo....heck, the 1820 that we use on WRX's day in and day out is internally gated too and works very very well...not a spike to be seen.
Gurgen