RAM air set-up for the stock airbox..
11-13-2003, 09:07 PM
#21
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That's the idea I had in mind. Why not eliminate that last restrictive 90 degree bend on the grill and reroute it somewhere up front w/ a larger scoop and decreased bend? That should smooth out the air flow....
11-13-2003, 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by djkern
isn't that what they use the large fan in front of the car for?? or is that just to keep the car cool?? i wouldn't know...never dyno'd my car.
isn't that what they use the large fan in front of the car for?? or is that just to keep the car cool?? i wouldn't know...never dyno'd my car.
11-13-2003, 09:45 PM
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I think what you did is great!! The initial bend shouldn't be a problem since you used a larger diameter and then tapered it back. It would be cool if you had more of a scoop on the front end to catch more air. I was hoping that someone would market this design and sell some sort of attachment for the stock air box. I have the Injen and like it for looks and some added performance but think it could be a better design like the Gruppe-M but I do not want to pay for the Gruppe-M. You would think a simple attachment for the stock air box would be cheap to make and inexpensive to buy making for a big hit.
11-13-2003, 09:58 PM
#24
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I went for a spin, took the car @100mph+. I can honestly say that this set-up makes a difference. It pulls stronger and smoother. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just merely sharing my experience. I do know that I am not going to put the Nismo CAI (for sale) back after this. I am very happy with this mod. I will be putting the mesh grille from Coastal Metals. This should help screen out debris from getting sucked in.
11-13-2003, 10:06 PM
#25
....for your health
Originally posted by zzzya
I have the Injen and like it for looks and some added performance but think it could be a better design like the Gruppe-M but I do not want to pay for the Gruppe-M. You would think a simple attachment for the stock air box would be cheap to make and inexpensive to buy making for a big hit.
I have the Injen and like it for looks and some added performance but think it could be a better design like the Gruppe-M but I do not want to pay for the Gruppe-M. You would think a simple attachment for the stock air box would be cheap to make and inexpensive to buy making for a big hit.
11-13-2003, 10:24 PM
#26
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Making the attachment piece is not that hard, time consuming yes. This is my first time using fiberglass and I got the hang of it right away. Next project would be my custom sub box 
.
.
11-14-2003, 03:57 AM
#27
Nice work on the intake. If you could find a manometer and see what the pressures at speed and WOT on the front side of the airbox (in front of filter).
For reference sake, the stock air box setup had .03 PSI at speed (70-80 mph) and WOT. Don’t laugh at .03 PSI that is major when you factor in the WOT state.
You have said this twice now . . .I by no means am an expert but I highly doubt that a CAI will gain you any where near 2 seconds in the 1/4. That equates to loads of additional high end HP. I don’t doubt that it helped but there are too many factors to make that claim.
For reference sake, the stock air box setup had .03 PSI at speed (70-80 mph) and WOT. Don’t laugh at .03 PSI that is major when you factor in the WOT state.
Originally posted by 350Z_Redline
My Injen CAI added ~2mph to my 1/4mi traps. If you think about it logically it's a pretty simple concept, although many on this board don't seem to get it
My Injen CAI added ~2mph to my 1/4mi traps. If you think about it logically it's a pretty simple concept, although many on this board don't seem to get it
11-14-2003, 05:02 AM
#28
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Anyone know if ODBII scan tools can give an estimate of air flow based on the MAF sensor?
A good way to evaluate this mod would be to use the manometer that VandyZ suggested to check pressure and the MAF for air flow. This will give you an easy way to compare to stock at highway speeds.
Of course, time slips from drag racing would be good too.
--
Jeff
A good way to evaluate this mod would be to use the manometer that VandyZ suggested to check pressure and the MAF for air flow. This will give you an easy way to compare to stock at highway speeds.
Of course, time slips from drag racing would be good too.
--
Jeff
11-14-2003, 05:18 AM
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I love backyard engineers. Some of the best innovations were conceived in home garages. Great set up and thanks for sharing.
A larger front scoop gradually flaring back to the stock inlet would further improve the inlet pressure- venturi effect. I'm new to the CAI game and have wondered by CAI's don't take advantage of this. I suppose it's easier to bend a length of straight tubing, add a highend filter and stick a $200 price tag on the unit. Also wondered why some CAI's use metal tubing to duct ambient(cold) air through a hot engine compartment. Isn't the metal tubing going to warm up and heat the ambient air? Even the rubber and plastic ones will eventually warm up if run long enough.
I've had some NASA wind tunnel and aerodynamic experience and I don't believe you're losing too much pressure with the bends you have constructed. The diameters are relatively large, flows relatively low, hence low Reynolds number. If I get a chance I'll run some numbers. But I do agree with the comments on the dyno testing. Most home and industrial fans are low velocity ~ 40-60 '/s and if they are postioned a ways from the actual inlet the inlet velocities are significantly lower then this.
An idea for the rain and water problem. A trick used by aircraft engine inlets is to use a secondary bypass exit. The heavier water droplets with their higher momentum have a more difficult time turning the corners. Your unit is ideally set up for this. It maybe possible to put a small cut out on the upper end of the first elbow to allow the water to exit as it truns the corner. You'll lose some air loss but most will turn the corner. Of course, driving through 12" of standing water would still be a problem ;-) An added option is to put a small drain hole in the bottm side of the first elbow to allow the water to drain down and out as it trys to move up the vertical tube.
another backyard engineer
A larger front scoop gradually flaring back to the stock inlet would further improve the inlet pressure- venturi effect. I'm new to the CAI game and have wondered by CAI's don't take advantage of this. I suppose it's easier to bend a length of straight tubing, add a highend filter and stick a $200 price tag on the unit. Also wondered why some CAI's use metal tubing to duct ambient(cold) air through a hot engine compartment. Isn't the metal tubing going to warm up and heat the ambient air? Even the rubber and plastic ones will eventually warm up if run long enough.
I've had some NASA wind tunnel and aerodynamic experience and I don't believe you're losing too much pressure with the bends you have constructed. The diameters are relatively large, flows relatively low, hence low Reynolds number. If I get a chance I'll run some numbers. But I do agree with the comments on the dyno testing. Most home and industrial fans are low velocity ~ 40-60 '/s and if they are postioned a ways from the actual inlet the inlet velocities are significantly lower then this.
An idea for the rain and water problem. A trick used by aircraft engine inlets is to use a secondary bypass exit. The heavier water droplets with their higher momentum have a more difficult time turning the corners. Your unit is ideally set up for this. It maybe possible to put a small cut out on the upper end of the first elbow to allow the water to exit as it truns the corner. You'll lose some air loss but most will turn the corner. Of course, driving through 12" of standing water would still be a problem ;-) An added option is to put a small drain hole in the bottm side of the first elbow to allow the water to drain down and out as it trys to move up the vertical tube.
another backyard engineer
11-14-2003, 05:45 AM
#30
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I am definitely going to try it this weekend !!! Awesome idea !!! As for the water question, wouldn't the filter stop it from moving up to the intake ? Cant be good for the filter, but on my Silverado with the FIPK, the filter got wet everytime it rained...and K&N designed it. Just a thought.
11-14-2003, 06:08 AM
#31
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Originally posted by 350Z_Redline
I've never dynoed my car either, but I can tell you for a fact that none of those fans at a dyno shop will ever simulate real world driving conditions. You will need you use a wind tunnel at NASA or something. Simply, you will never see the true gains of a CAI/RAM air on a dyno; it's idiotic to try. You need some other way of testing gains like track times/trap speeds. My Injen CAI added ~2mph to my 1/4mi traps. If you think about it logically it's a pretty simple concept, although many on this board don't seem to get it
I've never dynoed my car either, but I can tell you for a fact that none of those fans at a dyno shop will ever simulate real world driving conditions. You will need you use a wind tunnel at NASA or something. Simply, you will never see the true gains of a CAI/RAM air on a dyno; it's idiotic to try. You need some other way of testing gains like track times/trap speeds. My Injen CAI added ~2mph to my 1/4mi traps. If you think about it logically it's a pretty simple concept, although many on this board don't seem to get it
i hope you were't rolling your eyes at me. if so...grow up.
like i had said "i never dyno'd my car". i wasn't saying that the fan would simulate real world driving conditions...i was just saying that it would pushing air to flor through the intake...instead of nothing even flowing through it.
i could care less what a CAI added to your car...i wasn't asking.
11-14-2003, 07:26 AM
#33
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Sheesh where's the love?!
This design seems to be every bit as good as the K&N and Gruppe-M ram pieces. Of course the Gruppe-M CF filter piece is very nice and accounts for much of its cost. But as far as getting a RAM effect this is well done, looks good, and should work as well as anything else out there. Hell, if I were better at working with my hands I'd copy your design!
This design seems to be every bit as good as the K&N and Gruppe-M ram pieces. Of course the Gruppe-M CF filter piece is very nice and accounts for much of its cost. But as far as getting a RAM effect this is well done, looks good, and should work as well as anything else out there. Hell, if I were better at working with my hands I'd copy your design!
11-14-2003, 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by VandyZ
You have said this twice now . . .I by no means am an expert but I highly doubt that a CAI will gain you any where near 2 seconds in the 1/4. That equates to loads of additional high end HP. I don’t doubt that it helped but there are too many factors to make that claim.
You have said this twice now . . .I by no means am an expert but I highly doubt that a CAI will gain you any where near 2 seconds in the 1/4. That equates to loads of additional high end HP. I don’t doubt that it helped but there are too many factors to make that claim.
Originally posted by djkern
like i had said "i never dyno'd my car". i wasn't saying that the fan would simulate real world driving conditions...
like i had said "i never dyno'd my car". i wasn't saying that the fan would simulate real world driving conditions...
Originally posted by djkern
i could care less what a CAI added to your car...i wasn't asking.
i could care less what a CAI added to your car...i wasn't asking.
11-14-2003, 08:00 AM
#35
Originally posted by 350Z_Redline
Actually, I might've said it more than twice, but no matter how many times I've said it I never claimed "2 seconds in the 1/4". I said ~2MPH in the traps. 10/24- Best trap 100.79MPH, Temp 43. 10/26- Added CAI- Best trap 102.55MPH, Temp 70.
Actually, I might've said it more than twice, but no matter how many times I've said it I never claimed "2 seconds in the 1/4". I said ~2MPH in the traps. 10/24- Best trap 100.79MPH, Temp 43. 10/26- Added CAI- Best trap 102.55MPH, Temp 70.
Thats what I meant . . .2mph. That is still takes major hp gain to change your trap speed that much. Maybe you just got better runs?
11-14-2003, 08:03 AM
#36
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Originally posted by 350Z_Redline
You probably mean you could NOT care less...but in any event you're correct you did not ask
You probably mean you could NOT care less...but in any event you're correct you did not ask
why the "
" to me then?also...do you think that your car is trapping faster cause of the temperature?? 43 vs 70. i would definitely say you would be quicker and trap higher at 70 degrees. i'm sure you had more wheel spin when it was 43 degrees.
11-14-2003, 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by VandyZ
Sorry,
Thats what I meant . . .2mph. That is still takes major hp gain to change your trap speed that much. Maybe you just got better runs?
Sorry,
Thats what I meant . . .2mph. That is still takes major hp gain to change your trap speed that much. Maybe you just got better runs?
My ET's and traps are pretty consistant. It's cool though...we'll see how my traps look once you guys get my plenum out to me
Last edited by 350Z_Redline; 11-14-2003 at 08:16 AM.
11-14-2003, 08:08 AM
#38
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Thanks everyone for all your possitive/ constructive criticisms. Should I start production (joking )? When I was building this set-up, my main concern was water getting in. I did drilled a few holes in the bottom corner of the first bend to let water exit out and not accumulate inside the scoop. I am scrounging Home Depot for a bigger scoop that I can use. So Yes, I will upgrade this design soon..
)? When I was building this set-up, my main concern was water getting in. I did drilled a few holes in the bottom corner of the first bend to let water exit out and not accumulate inside the scoop. I am scrounging Home Depot for a bigger scoop that I can use. So Yes, I will upgrade this design soon..
11-14-2003, 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by djkern
yeah, that's what i mean...i meant to type couldn't. oops.
why the " " to me then?
also...do you think that your car is trapping faster cause of the temperature?? 43 vs 70. i would definitely say you would be quicker and trap higher at 70 degrees. i'm sure you had more wheel spin when it was 43 degrees.
yeah, that's what i mean...i meant to type couldn't. oops.
why the "
" to me then?also...do you think that your car is trapping faster cause of the temperature?? 43 vs 70. i would definitely say you would be quicker and trap higher at 70 degrees. i'm sure you had more wheel spin when it was 43 degrees.
" wasn't toward you, I just picked an icon...maybe 
would've been more appropriate. Don't take it personal 
After adding my CAI my traps have been consistant regardless of temp. I'm now trapping ~103 with the crank pulley...oh, you didn't ask about that either
Last edited by 350Z_Redline; 11-14-2003 at 08:18 AM.
11-14-2003, 08:18 AM
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ok, as long as you weren't rolling your eyes thinking i'm the idiot. haha.
saying that the car traps regardless of temperature...that clears up my other question.
i think the CAI makes a difference. i think the pop-charger on m car makes a difference over the stock air box.
saying that the car traps regardless of temperature...that clears up my other question.
i think the CAI makes a difference. i think the pop-charger on m car makes a difference over the stock air box.