why is the Z so much to mod???
11-21-2003, 11:55 AM
#41
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Originally posted by FairladyZ
The statement about the LS1 is false. My WS6 was rated at 325hp from the factory. Guess what it dynoed stock? 323rwhp...GM underratted the f-bodies to save face for the 350hp rated vettes.
The statement about the LS1 is false. My WS6 was rated at 325hp from the factory. Guess what it dynoed stock? 323rwhp...GM underratted the f-bodies to save face for the 350hp rated vettes.
The LS1 makes ~350 crank HP stock. Heads and cams yield ~475 crank HP. That's what I call 'not tuned for maximum power from the factory.' Simple (and relatively cheap) aftermarket parks yield great power gains.
Put ported heads and more aggressive cams on the Z and you'll be really lucky to gain 50 horsepower. The VQ35DE is tuned better from the factory. That's just the way it is.
11-21-2003, 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by azrael
next time, read what I posted. I said the LS1 wasn't tuned for maximum power from the factory. I said NOTHING about what it was rated at vs what it dynos.
The LS1 makes ~350 crank HP stock. Heads and cams yield ~475 crank HP. That's what I call 'not tuned for maximum power from the factory.' Simple (and relatively cheap) aftermarket parks yield great power gains.
Put ported heads and more aggressive cams on the Z and you'll be really lucky to gain 50 horsepower. The VQ35DE is tuned better from the factory. That's just the way it is.
next time, read what I posted. I said the LS1 wasn't tuned for maximum power from the factory. I said NOTHING about what it was rated at vs what it dynos.
The LS1 makes ~350 crank HP stock. Heads and cams yield ~475 crank HP. That's what I call 'not tuned for maximum power from the factory.' Simple (and relatively cheap) aftermarket parks yield great power gains.
Put ported heads and more aggressive cams on the Z and you'll be really lucky to gain 50 horsepower. The VQ35DE is tuned better from the factory. That's just the way it is.
and to BOB This isnt a BMW its a nissan, not that that is bad just a little difference in price range there
I am suprised that no one has mentioned the EVO's(or I should say Mitsubishi's) fragile drive train... I was at the dealer today... YES I test drove one... I had too... they were talkin about burning out clutches relitively quickly and that it is better to dump the clutch VS feathering because of the AWD... but the problem with this is the transfer case and gear box sustain the hit and arent neccesarrily beefy either...(basicly its not a 1/4 mile car its a road racer) but its suprising that nobody mentioned this as a weakness...
-non
11-21-2003, 07:12 PM
#43
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ya but what about this borla exhaust
350z = around 600
EVO = around 500
I dont want to hear a "i didnt pay that much blah blah blah.." thats list price
HKS CAMS EVO = 538
Nismo 350z (I know these ar nismo) 1550
Tien FLEX
EVO = 1495
350z = 1645
I've got some simple answers for ya:
Exhaust - Borla has 2x the piping for the Z as it has for the Evo...hence the extra $100.00
Cams - Evo has 2, 350Z has 4 - hence, twice the price. NISMO cams are not $1550 - nor are HKS cams for the Evo $538.00 - you picked 2 extremes as far as pricing (whored out on HKS, and full list on NISMO). NISMO cams sell for jsut south of $1300 usually, HKS cams for the Evo sell for around $600 ish range.
Tein coilovers - different suspension design, hence difference price levels.
The Evo clutch is actually not bad - some have had it go bad, most have not. Whoever said that dumping the clutch is preferred is an *** quite frankly...it needs to be slipped some or you will be buying tranny parts, jsut as you would on any other car.
Every car has its strengths and weaknesses.....
350z = around 600
EVO = around 500
I dont want to hear a "i didnt pay that much blah blah blah.." thats list price
HKS CAMS EVO = 538
Nismo 350z (I know these ar nismo) 1550
Tien FLEX
EVO = 1495
350z = 1645
I've got some simple answers for ya:
Exhaust - Borla has 2x the piping for the Z as it has for the Evo...hence the extra $100.00
Cams - Evo has 2, 350Z has 4 - hence, twice the price. NISMO cams are not $1550 - nor are HKS cams for the Evo $538.00 - you picked 2 extremes as far as pricing (whored out on HKS, and full list on NISMO). NISMO cams sell for jsut south of $1300 usually, HKS cams for the Evo sell for around $600 ish range.
Tein coilovers - different suspension design, hence difference price levels.
The Evo clutch is actually not bad - some have had it go bad, most have not. Whoever said that dumping the clutch is preferred is an *** quite frankly...it needs to be slipped some or you will be buying tranny parts, jsut as you would on any other car.
Every car has its strengths and weaknesses.....
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 11-21-2003 at 07:15 PM.
11-21-2003, 08:44 PM
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I just said you will be buyin tranny parts but I dump the clutch on my z at the drags all day long and have had no problem even with 100 shot of nitrous...
also I dont think that the guys who havent had a clutch go bad on them do much drag racing... many of the guys on the evo board who do drag have reported premature clutch failure... I've heard anywhere from 4-16K miles...
I would agree the stock clutch is "OK" it just isnt up to par when you do much else too it... will it hold together...probably but not long with any decent amount of modification...
as for cams I admit I wasnt even thinkin...
but the exhaust is a single tube...??? on both
-non
also I dont think that the guys who havent had a clutch go bad on them do much drag racing... many of the guys on the evo board who do drag have reported premature clutch failure... I've heard anywhere from 4-16K miles...
I would agree the stock clutch is "OK" it just isnt up to par when you do much else too it... will it hold together...probably but not long with any decent amount of modification...
as for cams I admit I wasnt even thinkin...
but the exhaust is a single tube...??? on both
-non
11-21-2003, 09:04 PM
#45
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I didn't even know Borla made a single pipe version for the Z..all I ever hear about is "True Dual".
Anyway, the muffler section I am sure makes it a bit more expensive, not to mention that its made in the US where the JDM systems are not.
Anyway, the muffler section I am sure makes it a bit more expensive, not to mention that its made in the US where the JDM systems are not.
11-22-2003, 01:30 AM
#46
11-22-2003, 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by BriGuyMax
Borla DOESN'T make anything but the TD anymore....orginially they had the single pipe exhaust, but stopped producing it with the arrival of the true dual.
Borla DOESN'T make anything but the TD anymore....orginially they had the single pipe exhaust, but stopped producing it with the arrival of the true dual.
-non
11-22-2003, 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
The Evo clutch is actually not bad - some have had it go bad, most have not. Whoever said that dumping the clutch is preferred is an *** quite frankly...it needs to be slipped some or you will be buying tranny parts, jsut as you would on any other car.
Every car has its strengths and weaknesses.....
The Evo clutch is actually not bad - some have had it go bad, most have not. Whoever said that dumping the clutch is preferred is an *** quite frankly...it needs to be slipped some or you will be buying tranny parts, jsut as you would on any other car.
Every car has its strengths and weaknesses.....
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...threadid=30664
I think its a majority rules situation...
-non
11-22-2003, 10:50 AM
#49
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Originally posted by nonmature
doesnt matter that was the price of the old one...
-non
doesnt matter that was the price of the old one...
-non
11-22-2003, 10:50 PM
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dude you can still buy the single pipe exhaust, and it is similar to the evo one than the TD so lets try to compare the same thing... also if you are right and they dont make them anymore then places would probably be dropping the price to blow them out and make way for new products... right it simple marketing and demand...
-non
-non
11-22-2003, 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by nonmature
dude you can still buy the single pipe exhaust, and it is similar to the evo one than the TD so lets try to compare the same thing... also if you are right and they dont make them anymore then places would probably be dropping the price to blow them out and make way for new products... right it simple marketing and demand...
-non
dude you can still buy the single pipe exhaust, and it is similar to the evo one than the TD so lets try to compare the same thing... also if you are right and they dont make them anymore then places would probably be dropping the price to blow them out and make way for new products... right it simple marketing and demand...
-non
11-22-2003, 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by BriGuyMax
Go buy an evo and stop complaining
Go buy an evo and stop complaining
-non
11-25-2003, 12:18 PM
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next time, read what I posted. I said the LS1 wasn't tuned for maximum power from the factory. I said NOTHING about what it was rated at vs what it dynos.
The LS1 makes ~350 crank HP stock. Heads and cams yield ~475 crank HP. That's what I call 'not tuned for maximum power from the factory.' Simple (and relatively cheap) aftermarket parks yield great power gains.
Put ported heads and more aggressive cams on the Z and you'll be really lucky to gain 50 horsepower. The VQ35DE is tuned better from the factory. That's just the way it is.
The LS1 makes ~350 crank HP stock. Heads and cams yield ~475 crank HP. That's what I call 'not tuned for maximum power from the factory.' Simple (and relatively cheap) aftermarket parks yield great power gains.
Put ported heads and more aggressive cams on the Z and you'll be really lucky to gain 50 horsepower. The VQ35DE is tuned better from the factory. That's just the way it is.
11-25-2003, 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by zeepoh
I doubt that's the case. I think it has everything to do with market maturity. It's taken the LS1 6 years to reach this point. If you look back to when the LS1 first came out, 475 bhp was completely unheard of for heads and cam. Give the 350z another 5 years, and if there's still as much interest in it as there is today, you'll probably see the same results
I doubt that's the case. I think it has everything to do with market maturity. It's taken the LS1 6 years to reach this point. If you look back to when the LS1 first came out, 475 bhp was completely unheard of for heads and cam. Give the 350z another 5 years, and if there's still as much interest in it as there is today, you'll probably see the same results
11-25-2003, 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by zeepoh
I doubt that's the case. I think it has everything to do with market maturity. It's taken the LS1 6 years to reach this point. If you look back to when the LS1 first came out, 475 bhp was completely unheard of for heads and cam. Give the 350z another 5 years, and if there's still as much interest in it as there is today, you'll probably see the same results
I doubt that's the case. I think it has everything to do with market maturity. It's taken the LS1 6 years to reach this point. If you look back to when the LS1 first came out, 475 bhp was completely unheard of for heads and cam. Give the 350z another 5 years, and if there's still as much interest in it as there is today, you'll probably see the same results
A gain of 125 horsepower would yield 412 BHP. That's over 110 HP/Liter.
110 HP/Liter is difficult to achieve on an N/A 4 cyl motor, and isn't likely with a streetable setup on an N/A V6. I'm sure wild cams, a radical head design, and increasing the redline to 9000+ RPM might make it possible, but that isn't a very streetable setup.
The only street engine I can think of offhand that yields over 110 HP/L is the F20C from the 2000-2003 Honda S2000, which revs up to 9000 RPM stock, and the high flowing head/cam setup kills the low end power.
11-25-2003, 02:48 PM
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Funny how we compare the V8 powered Z06(and almost twice as much) to the V6 powered Z.
I still think our stuff is a bit high, but maybe I am just thinking about the SCs. Both ATI and Vortech seem a bit high.
I still think our stuff is a bit high, but maybe I am just thinking about the SCs. Both ATI and Vortech seem a bit high.
11-25-2003, 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by azrael
sorry, you can give the 350Z 10 years, and you will never see gains of 125 horsepower N/A.
A gain of 125 horsepower would yield 412 BHP. That's over 110 HP/Liter.
110 HP/Liter is difficult to achieve on an N/A 4 cyl motor, and isn't likely with a streetable setup on an N/A V6. I'm sure wild cams, a radical head design, and increasing the redline to 9000+ RPM might make it possible, but that isn't a very streetable setup.
The only street engine I can think of offhand that yields over 110 HP/L is the F20C from the 2000-2003 Honda S2000, which revs up to 9000 RPM stock, and the high flowing head/cam setup kills the low end power.
sorry, you can give the 350Z 10 years, and you will never see gains of 125 horsepower N/A.
A gain of 125 horsepower would yield 412 BHP. That's over 110 HP/Liter.
110 HP/Liter is difficult to achieve on an N/A 4 cyl motor, and isn't likely with a streetable setup on an N/A V6. I'm sure wild cams, a radical head design, and increasing the redline to 9000+ RPM might make it possible, but that isn't a very streetable setup.
The only street engine I can think of offhand that yields over 110 HP/L is the F20C from the 2000-2003 Honda S2000, which revs up to 9000 RPM stock, and the high flowing head/cam setup kills the low end power.
HAHAHAHA thats funny. Oh, you are serious??? 
I have seen N/A honda's with 125hp over stock. Asking 125hp gain NA is very possible with the VG. Just wait.
Last edited by Drag Limited; 11-25-2003 at 03:04 PM.
11-25-2003, 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by azrael
sorry, you can give the 350Z 10 years, and you will never see gains of 125 horsepower N/A.
A gain of 125 horsepower would yield 412 BHP. That's over 110 HP/Liter.
110 HP/Liter is difficult to achieve on an N/A 4 cyl motor, and isn't likely with a streetable setup on an N/A V6. I'm sure wild cams, a radical head design, and increasing the redline to 9000+ RPM might make it possible, but that isn't a very streetable setup.
The only street engine I can think of offhand that yields over 110 HP/L is the F20C from the 2000-2003 Honda S2000, which revs up to 9000 RPM stock, and the high flowing head/cam setup kills the low end power.
sorry, you can give the 350Z 10 years, and you will never see gains of 125 horsepower N/A.
A gain of 125 horsepower would yield 412 BHP. That's over 110 HP/Liter.
110 HP/Liter is difficult to achieve on an N/A 4 cyl motor, and isn't likely with a streetable setup on an N/A V6. I'm sure wild cams, a radical head design, and increasing the redline to 9000+ RPM might make it possible, but that isn't a very streetable setup.
The only street engine I can think of offhand that yields over 110 HP/L is the F20C from the 2000-2003 Honda S2000, which revs up to 9000 RPM stock, and the high flowing head/cam setup kills the low end power.
Hell...the NORMALLY ASPIRATED VQ35DE race motor puts out over 450hp.....
I won't even get into what you could do with a stroker kit on a VQ....
11-25-2003, 04:15 PM
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my key word was "streetable."
I suppose everyone has a different definition of streetable, but...
- I don't think 6 throttle bodies with venturis and no filter is streetable (a la tommy kaira)
- I've been told that the crank and main bearings are weak, so raising the redline will be a big issue
- running higher compression means better gas. depending how high, we could be talking race gas. calling that streetable is questionable.
- running a strong set of cams with overlap will yield an extremely lopey idle and kill a lot of the low-end torque we have right now
- stroking the motor yields higher piston speeds and usually means limiting the redline
with a race motor, getting that kind of power N/A is easy. but again, the operative word was "streetable." For $15,000 and a lot of streetability sacrifices, maybe you can get 125 more HP out of it N/A.. but is that even remotely worth the trouble? I think not.
I suppose everyone has a different definition of streetable, but...
- I don't think 6 throttle bodies with venturis and no filter is streetable (a la tommy kaira)
- I've been told that the crank and main bearings are weak, so raising the redline will be a big issue
- running higher compression means better gas. depending how high, we could be talking race gas. calling that streetable is questionable.
- running a strong set of cams with overlap will yield an extremely lopey idle and kill a lot of the low-end torque we have right now
- stroking the motor yields higher piston speeds and usually means limiting the redline
with a race motor, getting that kind of power N/A is easy. but again, the operative word was "streetable." For $15,000 and a lot of streetability sacrifices, maybe you can get 125 more HP out of it N/A.. but is that even remotely worth the trouble? I think not.