vincenzobar

the original question was why does it cost more for parts on a Z!! The simple fact is this. Z cost more than Hondas. The average consumer of the Z is much wealthier (usually) and older!

So then can Charge that much!!

plain and simple. Also it has something to do with V-6 vs.V-4!!!

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

Crank and main bearings weak???

My friend has a 96 5-speed Maxima with 150,000 miles on it...runs mid 13s with a 7200rpm fuel cut-off....no problems as of yet with high rpm.

I never said anything about individual venturis with no air filter

The Zs motor ISN'T that high compression . My bike runs 12.5:1 compression and runs on 91AKI no problem...

I think you could EASILY have a streetable N/A Z with near 400 crank hp in a coupe years with more aftermarket.

zeepoh

It costs more for the parts right now because huge dollars are being poured into R&D. In a few years when the platform stabalizes and proven combinations are out, you'll see more tuners come into the picture building on what's out there. Prices will drop, power will go up. Just give it time

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

there is no NA VQ35 puting out 450 or anywhere close to it....

You're buddies Maxima is a VQ3O though..a VQ35 is different internally, and what has been said about rhe bearings is very true according to all our friends in Japan who have more than a years jump on us in terms of tuning this motor.

Hoever I do believe over time we will see some nice NA gains with the motor. There is a reason Nissan is banking on the VQ35 as their new goto motor for more than just production cars, and hopefully we'll all benefit down the road

FLY BY Z

Also you guys listed EVERY replacement part available for a motor to get the same gain as just heads and a cam for the LS1. That was the point. You could replace everything in the LS1 too. Anyways, also keep in mind that a bike motor is under a lot less load than a car motor and can run higher compression without pinging. Also, you have to take into account timing in the equation also. A sportbike is finely tuned and carries 500 pounds instead of 3500. A HUGE difference.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

people run streetable AUTOMOBILE motors in the 11:1 to 12:1 range on pump gas all the time...

FLY BY Z

Never said they didn't. Compression is one part of a giant equation with constantly changing variables. You can run high compression in your daily driver.

AND

You can drive a car with your feet if you want to. That don't make it a good ****in idea!
-Chris Rock-

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

Boost effectively raises the compression...and people run that all the time.

What I think is a good idea is my opinion...what you think is a good idea is your opinion.

I wasn't arguing the LS1 vs. VQ thing...even an idiot should know the answer to that.

A comment was made that stated that you will never see an N/A 350Z putting out over 100hp more at the crank than stock. I don't agree. Thus my formentioned points.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

Well.. this isn't entirely true. I don't know if you were talking only street motors, but the Nissan South Africa Off-Road racing pickup puts out around 450ps N/A. The Nissan Formula World Series cars all use VQ30's, and while not 35DE motors, put out over 450ps. The VQ35 can be built to make power in N/A trim, but it is extreme. The NISMO Racing VQ35 removes the CVTCS system and incorporates a new front cover (I think from the VQ30), has an ITB set-up, re-worked heads, and different cam covers for the ignition changes. I don't know what internally was done, but the GT300 class Z in the JGTC makes peak power at 8000 rpm and peak torque comes at 7000 rpm according to Nissan's Dakar Racing site.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

No, the compression ratio doesn't change with boost. Not by definition anyways. The internal gas pressure does change, but not as much as most would think. Raising your CR will have a much more pronounced effect on the power load (the force pushing down on the piston) on the crank assembly than applying boost will, all things being equal. In other words, an increase in the CR 20% compared to an increase in boost 20%, and the engine might detonate with the former, but the results will be relatively mild with the latter. The reason is this:
CR effect on power loads is measured in regards to TDC, while boost affects the load over the entire stroke of the piston. Power has to be measured this way, since the entire stroke applies torque to the crank. As such, the CR refers not to the "peak air pressure" generated at TDC, but the ratio of air at BDC to TDC (aka volume), while boost affects the "average pressure" over the entire stroke. Since it is an average pressure over the entire stroke, it is possible, in fact usual, to gain very little peak pressure over N/A near TDC, while substantially increasing pressures near the middle of the stroke length while boosting. This is because the igniting mixture, which is mostly responsible for the power load that drives down on the piston, does not do so all at once. In reality, only 20% or so has ignited at the peak pressure inside the cylinder. The rest ignites as the piston travels down, and the expanding volume "compensates" then for the increasing pressure from the expanding, burning gas. This keeps the pressure inside the cylinder from spiking as the mixture burns, and instead, allows pressures to decrease. The greatest pressure gains are realized over natural aspiration where the crank angle is close to 90 degrees. This occures because where the N/A engine would have had a rapid pressure drop as the piston travelled downward, the extra gas mixture supplied by the boost helps keep the relative pressure higher, longer, until just past 90 degrees when both engine's mixture will have been completely burned. Hence, the peak pressure while increased little, the average pressure can be increased two or threefold. This is why turbos can double the torque without doubling the power load on the piston/crank assembly. Now, the CR and the effect it has is not over the entire stroke, but rather the volume (not pressure) of air in the cylinder when the flash wave has to travel and disperse in the combustion chamber. This can place immediate increases to the power load, where pressure increases do not.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I personally think it is both. Some parts seem to cost more because the buyer is expected to be willing to shell out more. I have seen people charge $10 for our oil filter, but the same filter for a guy with a '01 Sentra SE sells for $8. At the same time, the car is new and some companies will most likely compensate for R&D by high initial cost. This is reasonable to me, as i do not consider the Z to be an easy car to mod. It seems the ECU is wicked tough to crack and manage compared to a lot of past Nissans, and other makers in general. The gains of bolt-on's might not be so extreme due to the high level of engineering that went into the stock motor, as compared to a cheaper car like the new SE-R where just about any header design will make significant power. Also, quantities matter. A turbo kit must include all new hardware to adapt it to a N/A engine and will most likely have two of everything essential to do it. Naturally, this costs more. The EVO is better plumbing, more boost, and some sort of fuel management away from significant increases. Much is the same for my buddy's rex. A new downpipe and exhaust, boost controller and open element filter later and the results were dramatic for about a grand.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

Read my post again....that's why I used the word "effectively"..and didn't say directly that "boost raises compression ratio to the same power that an actual raise in compression ratio does."

Drag Limited

"V4"

Drag Limited

yes streetable to me means being able to crank it up with gas at a gas station and not get pulled over driving from point a to point b.

Resolute

iTrader: (2)

I did read it, and quoted it. You posted in regards to the discussion of running a high compression ratio on daily driven motor, arguing that an increase in pressure from boost "effectively" increases compression, and since this is done on a daily driven motor, so therefore can high compression. This argument is incorect, any way you post it. If I have misunderstood your argument to mean something else, then my apologies. But, even without mentioning ratio, it doesn't matter as all that would have done is incorporate some relative measure as to how much compresion the gas in the chamber has undergone during full stroke. In either case of semantics, the compression of an engine has not changed, ie. the measure of volume the gas mixture has been compressed into, but the pressure has, ie. the amount of gas mixture in the combustion chamber pushing down on the piston. What I believe you meant was an increase in psi in the combustion chamber from boost is similiar to an increase in psi from raising the compression of an engine, and so I posted the above to help alleviate a common misunderstanding, as psi increased from reducing the volume- raising compression- has markedly different effects than raising the pressure by increasing the mass of gas mixture on a piston's power load.

channone

Threads like these make me never want to mod my Z. I plan on modding my v6 camaro instead. Seems that people have found a way to put a turbo on it. It's not all *bling* *bling* but appears to work and reasonably cheap. There is a big comfort factor knowing I could probably buy 5 or 6 engines for my camaro for the price of 1 for my Z. Not sure I could overcome the mental trama of my commuter car being faster than my Z.

My $0.02

PS. The 3.4L engine in my camaro was also considered "weak". Guess people were wrong.

Website of the bored engineer who decided to build his own kit for less than the pros.

cbsuper

Actually, Mr. PotatoHead nailed it on the head. There are several reasons why the Z is more expensive to mod than the Evo and it doesn't have anything to do with the engine application in the car. For starters, the Z is a 6 cylinder engine compared to a 4 cylinder engine like the Evo. Modding a V6 requires more parts and labor and that is figured into the costs. Also, the demographics of each car is different. Whereas twentysomethings might be the primary demographic of the Evo, the Z has demographics of people from their mid to late twenties up to their sixties. Since the majority of these people make more money, they can afford to pay more for parts. Also, the Z market is still very niche, at least for the VQ35DE platform, whereas the Evo's engine has been around for 13 years, and the Japanese market was able to mass produce products for that platform. Once supply equals demand then we'll see prices beginning to fall, although it won't be straight across the board. I see the Z market becoming like the Supra market: cheap prices for bolt ons and NA parts such as cams, but when it comes to FI it will still be relatively expensive.

G3po

iTrader: (8)

If you notice , Zs and Gs are "popping onto roads like popcorn".
The sales have been really brisk compared to other models and makes. In a few years there will be so many on the road, and so many entusiasts The prices in the aftermarket will definately come down rapidly. As someone stated earlier, supply and demand. But until then , if you wanna play early you're gonna pay more.

nonmature

flaw... the evo we were talkin about is right in the same price range as the Z

-non