Spaz - c'mon man... nobody ever reads the instructions. That's why guys are so good at putting up swing sets - lot's of leftover parts.

 

Yes I do plan on installing the Greddy kit on my Z exactly how it is sent by Greddy. However, after I dyno the car and just show everyone whats up with the kit... I will be making immediate changes to further upgrade and utilize the potential of the system.

I know of a few things that I will want to change immediatly (based on my perferance, not flaws), and I will be adding more to the ignition system and fuel system so that I can run more boost than the standard Greddy kit installation. At one point in time we were going to jump on the bandwagon and make a 350z kit... but after careful consideration I figured that the Greddy kit will be able to obtain what I am looking for, as long as I surpass the out-of-the-box standards. I can consider this kit as it comes as a "Stage 1" and then I will go ahead and perform more "stages" to the car so that I can safely up the boost and get to the power level that I am looking for and that these turbos are capable of.

My Z is waiting for the system. As soon as it shows up at my door I will immediatly photograph the entire kit and lay it out while my henchmen are removing the stock parts off my car. The moment they are done taking it apart I will begin putting it back together with the kit. I will post here within the hour of the runs with my results. I just hope that it gets here RIGHT AWAY cause I am moving my shop starting on the 24th and once I start moving I will not be able to install the kit until January and I wont have my dyno operational in the new building until probably Febuary at the soonest (I am going to put it in the ground this time).

-Charles

 

Not me. My install will consist of a TS ecu reflash a long with a new self reprogram of the e mange, and a nice set of cams maybe JWT

 

I am an experienced E-Manage tuner and we will be working with the tune if it is needed. But it probably will not be needed. Tuning a E-Manage in a car using a AFM or MAF rather then a MAP can be a very big pain in the *** once you start jacking up the boost. I will be trying to decide the best way to get rid of it ASAP.

 

Talked with an installer the other day about the Greddy kit and they charge 12.5 hours. They also throw the emanage away and use other stuff....as an FYI ...

Kit cost $6500 - 20% - $5200
Intercooler - $1600 - 20% - $1280

That totals $6480 for the kit....my total with install, gauges, tuning, pump this, fuel line that....blah blah blah was $14k and guaranteed not to blow up.

 

7k+ for install you might want to find someone else!!! You could do it yourself. they are not as difficult as most people make them out to be. I have done one for my friends rsx and had a turbo on my eclipse with ecu upgrade. There piggyback is preprogramed with step by step instruction for the kit. I mean they are simple with a little machanical common knowledge. As for blowing them up, if you leave it at the 5.6psi kit form I don't think you will have any problems even with the e manage. Its when you mess with them like me you can cause damage. Just my .02

 

guaranteed not to blow up eh? Would love to see that in writing. No installer will EVER say something like that.

What exactly are you buying for the extra $7k beyond gauges and a fuel pmp and lines? I am sure it was enough for them to afford to "discount" the kit by 20%.....

 

The tuner who quoted you that is probably not aware that the 350z does not use a fuel system similiar to a honda civic. the standard tricks are not going to work.

this is car that you will need to do your own footwork with, and until turbocharging and trying to tune you will not know exactly what you need to do with it. these newer cars are getting a lot smarter and more tricky. few months ago i turbocharged a is300 and let me tell you, these new cars are just getting very tricky... you have to really figure out how to outsmart them... its not as simple as a MAP sensor voltage clamp like a honda.

this is why i am not quoting procedures that i have to take... cause i dont know. until my 350z is twin turbo and i start trying to run more boost i cannot say exactly what i will need. all i know is that for this car I am going to try and stay away from a standalone EMS for as long as its possible to get a consistent reliable tune using piggy backs.

all i can do is datalog and moniter everything and figure out how to work around the problems that arise as clean and simple as possible. once you add too much crap you get lots of inconsistencies.... the less products involved in the tuning, the better.

i have a few tricks and ideas up my sleeve, but i have yet to test them... and i would never do that sort of testing on a customers car. this is why we have dished out the big $$$ to go ahead and build our own. if i were to blow a customers engine its like the end of the world... if i were to blow my own engine its my excuse to build a better one.

 

phunk - the more I read from you, the more I swear I could be the one typing

good job!

 

agreed. it's nice to see a voice (or two) of reason around here.

the only major thing that concerns me is injectors. using piggybacks to deal with larger (or a second set of) injectors is difficult at best. to make a truly powerful VQ, we need much larger injectors. I don't see any good way of doing that without a standalone, although I hope you manage.

 

one of the good things about running the greddy e mange is that it can manipulate the injector pulse along with the MAF. this make adding the 440 injectors much easier then other piggybacks I have seen.

phunk:

I don't know if you know this but the other little electronic box ( its black approx 3"X3") that comes with the turbo kit is that a timing controller because they could not get the e manage to work?

 

spazpilot: I was not aware that there is going to be any timing controller at all. If this is true, I would still need something adjustable based on boost pressure and preferable another scale such as boost/rpm using an independant MAP sensor. Then I could simply datalog what a stock 350z is doing and make changes based on what boost at what RPM.

The E-Manage is pretty much a laptop programmable combo pack of piggy backs. Its MAF signal alterations are identical to what a S-AFC does. The most retarded part of the E-Manage (and S-AFC) is that you can only tune airflow signal voltage based on RPM (good) and TPS (WTF?!?).

Being able to extend the injector pulse width is the greatest, and for the most part, unique part of the E-Manage, and you can do it based on factory airflow voltage or Greddy MAP voltage. However you can only extend, not shorten. Thus requiring you to play with airflow signals to get the car to run "right" on an oversized injector. This really screws with your ignition timing (your main ignition timing map is based on your airflow signal / rpm)... running these combo piggy backs will instill inconsistencies in your tuning, and ultimately if you take advantage of the kit and turn up the boost you are gonna end up in the wrong place of the wrong map at the wrong time, and wish you never tried that.

You could clean it up heavily by using a better selection of piggys. Greddy is limited to only one brand, if you know what i mean.

Heres whats on my mind, as in, something I may try over the winter while playing with the car:

Fuel Control... Take the lower quality and oversize injectors out, put the stockers back in. Install my own E-Manage so I dont have to overwrite Greddy's tune in case I back out. Moniter factory fuel pressure and emulate it best as possible after adding tank return system, adjustable regulator with 1:1 rising, and large intank pump... Now the good stuff... cram an additional injector PER cylinder next to the factory injectors... Install a sequential AIC controller... and get to work on the dyno.

WTF would I do that?? Well... first I need an oversize fuel pump to supply the fuel that I need... and it will probably be needed anyway when I build the return system. I build the return system so I can properly control fuel pressure to keep it as close to stock (while not boosting) as possible. Now what I have is a stock ECU, a E-Manage installed but not tuned to do anything at all, and stock fuel pressure. The car should drive like stock... UNTIL I start boosting, now my AIC MAP sensor sensors the boost and starts kicking in the secondaries as I see fit and tune. If the ECU sets open loop under full throttle regardless of RPM, then I just MIGHT be home free on fuel control and still maintain factory idle and driveability... Whats the point of having the E-Manage still in there? Its not controlling timing, and its not doing anything for my fuel now... Well I would leave it wired until I had the car running perfect without it doing anything. Who knows, I might need it for a MAF voltage clamp (hope not) or maybe just to pull more from the primaries just in case I put in too small of secondaries (not likely).

Until I figure out whats wrong with that plan, thats my plan. Im sure it will change before it ever happens, probably 3 or 4 times.

As for timing? If I could just find a compatable timing controller with its own MAP sensor and something that is tunable by the scales of MAP VS RPM I could really get this thing tuned out... unless of course it ends up just all being way too much and running like crap... which happens sometimes.

Even after all that, all I can do is run maybe 7-9 psi of boost until I build a new motor...

Im falling asleep at the keyboard, so if none of that makes sense, dont ask me I probably will forget by the time i wake up.

 

phunk:


WOOOOOOOOOO! Sounds like a whole lot of work for 7-9psi if you ask me. I have 2 ways I am going to try this. First just go ahead and go rpm vs throttle positon using the TS ecu upgrade and the e manage for fine tuning. or do what skiddazle did and have the ts ecu for timing but not fuel, use the aeromotive fmu and overpressurize the fuel system to force fuel. I heard that works pretty good. Thats the same boost I am trying to aim for also. Will try to keep everyone posted, but first I need to get my kit which I hope is soon.

 

I circle what I think might be a timing box that comes with the kit. if anyone knows drop a line.

 

ill let you know what it is when i find out... which may be today or if not then when it gets here.

yes your right it is a lot of work for such low boost, but if it worked out well... after building a stronger motor its POSSIBLE that it might work well up to 12-15 psi which would be an amazing car to drive.

 

the black box, according to our instruction book, is a interface for the E Manage to get an RPM singal...part #64.

You should see this instruction book....yikes....it's a bit long!

 

WOOOOOOOOOW!! That's alot of wires just to get an rpm signal. I zoom it in and think I counted four. Must be 1 to signal on ecu, 1 to e mangae signal, 1 power, 1 ground?

 

I think the TS ecu is starting to sound better then the e manage.

 

My installer called and the complete kit came in today. They are shut down for the holidays so I will not get it installed until after the first.

Shaun

 

Today I spoke with HKS and it appears I will be using the FCON V Pro on my Z with the Greddy TT. If there is demand, I can put together kits for this that would be compatable with any forced induction Z, but each would require custom tuning at my shop.

I cant wait till I have something to show you guys, first just the Greddy kit how it comes, which is kinda exciting, but once I make it mine and start to do what I want... it will be much more exciting.

-Charles